TheDoctor Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 Is anyone else fed up with the whole Livi "SAGA" , APPEAL . WON'T PLAY?...Really looking forward to this season and hope it is a cracker with or without Livingston.... As much as I've followed the whole Livingston situation from the moment Massone walked in, I'm now starting to get sick of it. I've only just found out they are planning on doing an "Estonia" and not turn up at Ochilview and to be perfectly frank, if they carry out that threat then they should be booted out of the league. I didn't agree with the decision to relegate them, especially just days before the start of the season and while that, by rights, they are a First Division club, refusing to fulfil the fixture now descends this whole sorry affair into an even bigger farce. The SFL, as a body, have mucked this whole thing up from start to finish by sitting back and doing nothing up to the relegation and if anything should be learned from this whole mess, it is that more stringent rules should be applied to teams that enter administration. Livingston aren't blameless in all this either and again, great sympathy in them being dumped into Division Three, but not complying with things as they stand just shows a blatant two fingers to everybody. Interested to note that McGruther stated he didn't feel it was right that Livi shouldn't play in Division 3 while the appeal process was going on and should wait until it's all sorted. Surely the other side to that coin is that they shouldn't play in Division 1 until the appeals process is sorted out. It's great that the takeover may happen and that may come as some relief to the fans, but unless the team shows up at Ochilview, then in my view, they should be kicked out and leave everyone else to get on with their seasons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Naitch Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 I'm a thick cnut and I can see that forcing Livi to play today would get blown out the water in a higher court as it shows that the result of the appeal has probably been pre-determined and as such unlawful/unjust. I point you to the analogy used by Sir Calum Melville - if someone commits a crime and is sentenced accordingly then any appeal that comes from that doesn't mean that they're suddenly 'acquitted' until the appeal is heard. Livingston are a Third Division club until the appeal is heard and should act as such by fulfilling the Third Division fixture they have today. McGruther's decision to withdraw the team from that fixture is simply NOT in the best interests of Livingston Football Club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumbeg geordie Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Are the lunatics running the asylmn.How can you possablly tell teams to play when they do not know which leasgue thay are in until the appeal has been heard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghPar1975 Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 McGruther's decision to withdraw the team from that fixture is simply NOT in the best interests of Livingston Football Club. Naitch - I was thinking the same thing. If McGruther is there to act in the best interests as interim manager then i'm not sure that this has been carried out. I agree that the double relegation was harsh, and if Livi feel that they should appeal then fair enough. However, they should not be refusing to fulfill fixtures in division 3. I do not believe that this is the best course of action. Lets for a minute think that they'll win their appeal and be back in SFL1 (i think the SFL must be pretty sure that they'll not have a case or they wouldn't have demoted them!), then they will probably get hammered with a 20 point penalty. In addition to that they could end up with a further 15 points and other sanctions for non-fulfillment of a fixture. 35 point penalty would see them drop into SFL2. Playing and potentially winning SFL3 would see them in the same league at this time next year but with momentum behind them. A season with no chance of competing would potentially affect paying home fans (non season tickets) at the games and could be as detrimental as playing in SFL3. I can't help but think they'll wish they'd played the game! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleubrazil Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 I don't think there's any chance you'll now avoid a points penalty so depending on the outcome of the appeal, either 2 or 4. Personally I can't see any grounds to win the appeal Perhaps the fact that Livi were not allowed into the meeting to give their side of the story is grounds enough for the appeal to succeed. The sentence was extremely harsh. McDougall certainly pulled off minor miracles to keep Cowden alive for 20 years but this will be some coup if he pulls this one off. However, he is a football man through and through and won't give up the fight to save the club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 The SFL, as a body, have mucked this whole thing up from start to finish by sitting back and doing nothing up to the relegation and if anything should be learned from this whole mess, it is that more stringent rules should be applied to teams that enter administration. So, since they haven't actually entered administration yet and only entered interim administration a fortnight ago you're actually saying that the SFL have mucked this up by doing nothing for exactly as long as you think they should do nothing for? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 [/b]Perhaps the fact that Livi were not allowed into the meeting to give their side of the story is grounds enough for the appeal to succeed. The sentence was extremely harsh. Livi weren't allowed into the meeting? McDougall and Rankine weren't. That isn't the same thing. As I understood it McGrouther, the only man currently officially linked to Livingston, was allowed to address the meeting. The sentence may or may not have been harsh. It doesn't justify the toys out of the pram approach Livi are using now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 (edited) I point you to the analogy used by Sir Calum Melville - if someone commits a crime and is sentenced accordingly then any appeal that comes from that doesn't mean that they're suddenly 'acquitted' until the appeal is heard. Livingston are a Third Division club until the appeal is heard and should act as such by fulfilling the Third Division fixture they have today. McGruther's decision to withdraw the team from that fixture is simply NOT in the best interests of Livingston Football Club. His analogy is crap,McGruthers' decision is correct, as the Interim manager he can't be seen to GAMBLE finances in his position as he must act in a financially prudent manner fighting for creditors money as much as is humanly possible. With the Div 3 option the creditors don't get their money,the very thing that the 9000 posts have been about,so he must try his best to get something for the creditors. Edited August 8, 2009 by ayrmad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 His analogy is crap,McGruthers' decision is correct, as the Interim manager he can't be seen to GAMBLE finances in his position as he must act in a financially prudent manner protecting creditors money as much as is humanly possible. But that's exactly what he's doing. He's now risking the club's expulsion from the league which will leave creditors with nothing rather than taking a secure third division route. He might turn out to be right but it's most certainly a gamble. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 But that's exactly what he's doing. He's now risking the club's expulsion from the league which will leave creditors with nothing rather than taking a secure third division route. He might turn out to be right but it's most certainly a gamble. They get nothing if the appeal fails anyway,that's why he's made the decision he has. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest morton1874 Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 I dont know if this has been covered but does anyone know when the appeal will be heard? I would assume that Monday or Tuesday would be sensible so things are not up the air like this week. IMO livi should be hammered for refusing to play today. So a failed appeal and a 10 point deduction.........well at least Elgin have a chance of not finishing bottom 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 I dont know if this has been covered but does anyone know when the appeal will be heard? I would assume that Monday or Tuesday would be sensible so things are not up the air like this week.IMO livi should be hammered for refusing to play today. So a failed appeal and a 10 point deduction.........well at least Elgin have a chance of not finishing bottom Thursday. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Naitch Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 His analogy is crap,McGruthers' decision is correct, as the Interim manager he can't be seen to GAMBLE finances in his position as he must act in a financially prudent manner fighting for creditors money as much as is humanly possible.With the Div 3 option the creditors don't get their money,the very thing that the 9000 posts have been about,so he must try his best to get something for the creditors. By not fulfilling today's Third Division fixture he's done exactly that. Anyway, McGruther has already come out and said that he's had a viable offer for Livi as a Third Division club - and as for the creditors, they're screwed whatever happens. The CVA will only get them a fraction of what's due whatever division they end up in (if I've understood it correctly). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest morton1874 Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Thursday. Oh ffs! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghPar1975 Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Thursday. i'd wager its at 2pm as well 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 By not fulfilling today's Third Division fixture he's done exactly that. Anyway, McGruther has already come out and said that he's had a viable offer for Livi as a Third Division club - and as for the creditors, they're screwed whatever happens. The CVA will only get them a fraction of what's due whatever division they end up in (if I've understood it correctly). Mcgruther has stated that Livi will exist regardless of the appeal,but the creditors will get nowt if Livi are in the 3rd division. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Think the Well scenario is going to crop up as well,it appears that the consortium have no intention of paying wages or travelling expenses they may not need to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 His analogy is crap,McGruthers' decision is correct, as the Interim manager he can't be seen to GAMBLE finances in his position as he must act in a financially prudent manner fighting for creditors money as much as is humanly possible. The analogy is not "crap", as you so eloquently put it. In any walk of life, if you are appealing against a sentence (which is what Livingston are doing), you continue to serve that sentence until such times that it's reduced (which may be never). And the SFL rules are also quite clear. When you make an appeal, it's made to a Special General Meeting, i.e. the appeal has not been heard until someone from Livingston FC has addressed said meeting. At the moment, all that Livi have done is lodge their intention to appeal and paid the required £500; the SFL must now convene said SGM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadio Delle Almondvale Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Thursday. The appeal should be on Monday morning!!! Astonishing that they will let this rumble on! Is this so that we can mount some sort of suitable defense? I have a feeling that there will be a few programme printers twiddling their thumbs this week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 (edited) The analogy is not "crap", as you so eloquently put it.In any walk of life, if you are appealing against a sentence (which is what Livingston are doing), you continue to serve that sentence until such times that it's reduced (which may be never). And the SFL rules are also quite clear. When you make an appeal, it's made to a Special General Meeting, i.e. the appeal has not been heard until someone from Livingston FC has addressed said meeting. At the moment, all that Livi have done is lodge their intention to appeal and paid the required £500; the SFL must now convene said SGM. In any walk of life you don't get people with vested interests making such decisions and hearing the appeal except in dodgy organisations. Edited August 8, 2009 by ayrmad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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