phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 I've already dug your grave. I wonder whether I should style for the first proper dance. Another time. You do know the gravedigger must get in first to test his workmanship? In you go, don't worry I'll make sure nothing untoward happens, such as a landslide. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Right. I'm still mulling over the apparent about-face between a week last Thursday (Div 1 no bother) and last Wednesday (Sorry lads, it's Div 3). Has anyone got any info as to whether the bond (and/or any other guarantees) were actually presented to the SFL at the 2nd meeting? It would seem to me to be the simplest explanation for the 'change of heart'. Im sure I saw a quote somewhere that said the bond hadnt been paid, or was that just a post on here 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The ghost of Jim Morton Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Right. I'm still mulling over the apparent about-face between a week last Thursday (Div 1 no bother) and last Wednesday (Sorry lads, it's Div 3). Has anyone got any info as to whether the bond (and/or any other guarantees) were actually presented to the SFL at the 2nd meeting? It would seem to me to be the simplest explanation for the 'change of heart'. I could be wrong but my understanding is that "THE BOND" would not be an actual cheque/suitcase of cash to sit in the SFLs vaults but more a signed document stating that in the event that Livi failed to finish the season that the LIVI 5 group would be liable to pay an amount (pro rata) to cover the other teams losses. (they might also ask for proof that between them the consortium members had that sort of cash available). The same as if I was bankrupt and wanted a loan from the bank, the only way I might get it would be if I had someone acting as a guarantor. They would then require the guarantor to sign a document agreeing that if I failed to keep up my repayments they would be liable to pay the money... As for whether they gave consent to this agreement or not unfortunately I do not know.. ps.. I could be talking bollocks... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 There lies the problem = lack of info, which then has lead to a million assumptions! Indeed. I just thought that someone somewhere could have put the question to McGruther or the Consortium. The fact that they were all over the papers on Thursday bleating about the bond (which apparently they knew about after the previous Wednesday) makes me decidedly doubtful that they *were* able to match the guarantees. Obviously, while not lifting the SFL to the heady heights of being able to organise a piss-up in a brewery, it would shift the onus of responsibility back towards the club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Right. I'm still mulling over the apparent about-face between a week last Thursday (Div 1 no bother) and last Wednesday (Sorry lads, it's Div 3). Has anyone got any info as to whether the bond (and/or any other guarantees) were actually presented to the SFL at the 2nd meeting? It would seem to me to be the simplest explanation for the 'change of heart'. Im sure I saw a quote somewhere that said the bond hadnt been paid, or was that just a post on here The failure to provide guarantees of the bond as agreed at the previous week's meeting as the condition of their remaining in division 1 seems to be the only reason they've given, anywhere, for the decision. If it is the case then maybe it's fair enough - bear in mind that prior to that first meeting and the conditions agreed within them the expectation was that Livi wouldn't be allowed to start the season at all. But rather unhelpfully they haven't said this publically, and I've only seen it reported second hand on livilions quoting a conversation with David Thompson: http://www.livilions.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=16860 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Wasn't t stated that the relegation principally came about becuase "Livi" tried to haggel over the size of the bond and how it should be paid? Basically, when it transpired that the bond of £720k. wasn't on the table, the relegation was decided upon. So, "Livi" really shot themselves in the foot. If the bond had been paid they'd more than likely still be in Div One. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Could someone be a pal and pose the question on the LivvyLions board. My access is somewhat limited at the mo! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qpsnapper Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 EDIT TO ADD: There seems to be a fear on LiviLions that they may be expelled for scratching the East Stirling game, but that doesn't help anyone in the SFL, so I think it will be a large points fine. Agree, I think if it came to a vote on expulsion (and Livingston are left in the Third Division) most Third Division clubs wouldn't want four free Saturdays and would vote against, that should be enough to block expulsion (I'm assuming it would take a 75% majority to expel them?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 The failure to provide guarantees of the bond as agreed at the previous week's meeting as the condition of their remaining in division 1 seems to be the only reason they've given, anywhere, for the decision. If it is the case then maybe it's fair enough - bear in mind that prior to that first meeting and the conditions agreed within them the expectation was that Livi wouldn't be allowed to start the season at all.But rather unhelpfully they haven't said this publically, and I've only seen it reported second hand on livilions quoting a conversation with David Thompson: http://www.livilions.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=16860 Im sure I've read it officially somewhere. Although it could have been this quote "If they'd appealed in due time, we'd have put the three games off, there's no question of that," added McMaster. "But there comes a point when we need to make a call. "We've done our best to avoid fixture chaos. Mr McGruther was asked if he (was certain he) could fulfil all 36 fixtures in the First Division next season and he said, 'No'. I was thinking of. I had to stop reading that thread on Livy lions 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow Loon Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 From what i can workout the LIVI 5 Couldnt pay the BOND meaning they were insolvant,therefore breaking the SFL rules on insolvancy,hence being relegated to div 3. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Duncan, As I understand it was McGruther who dealt with the Falkirk admin/liquidation? finance problems, how did he go about it then? That's a good question. He wasn't around for very long, and I think our case was resolved in such a benign way that no drama queen declarations of impending doom (real or otherwise) seemed to utter from his mouth. That the whole deal went through on the back of 100% debt honouring would i imagine, have made it all a fairly simple process. In Livingston, he will be costing something like 1k a day..........quite possibly double that. Him hanging around for a year is a weird one financially. it can only be because he wants to wipe out the existing debt by a minimum of 50% (and more like 75%) and replacing it with 300k of his own debt. He seems much more pre-disposed to veiled threats than he ever was in our day. Maybe something he has learned over the years, but knowing someone who is already "in the insolvency practicioners game", he reckons old McGruther may well have already undermined his own credibility with some utterances that have proven to be based on nothing whatsoever. I see there are claims that the council and HMRC deals are already done. This I presume, is outwith a CVA. I would be interestiung to know what those "arrangements" actually are. I don't think your council leader is too keen on the subject becoming overly public. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedV Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Had another foray into the skewed world of LiviLions just now: and another conundrum seems to rear it's head. Livi fans are spouting off all over the shop over Ballantyne - how he must've been influencing this decision, he is predjudiced, how he shouldn't be allowed a say on the committee etc. etc. (Of course he hasn't actually participated in the MC votes... but they don't believe it...!!). But of course they're blaming Ballantyne - it's the Livvy way. It has to be someone else's fault at all times. Pearse Flynn was defended on here with monotonous regularity. As soon as he went, it was all his fault for messing up Massone's plans, because at that stage Massone could do no wrong. When the penny finally dropped about Massone, HE became the baddy and they all threw abuse at him. Now they have their new saviours, Ballantyne's the new baddy, even though he has nothing to do with it. You couldn't expect to find a bigger shower of deluded fuckwits as you'll find on LiviLions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 From what i can workout the LIVI 5 Couldnt pay the BOND meaning they were insolvant,therefore breaking the SFL rules on insolvancy,hence being relegated to div 3. I dont think so. They had already broken the SFL rules on admin/insolvency. Not being able to put up the bond doesnt make them insolvent. However, I think the crux of what you're saying is correct. They couldnt put up the bond/guarantee they could fulfill the 1st division fixtures so they were demoted to the 3rd division. Presumably, because the running costs of a 3rd division club are smaller, and any bond required to potentially compensate other clubs for lost earnings would, similarly, be much smaller. If that is correct, it seems like a pretty sensible decision from the SFL. I would imagine that, having said they could not guarantee they could fulfill next seasons fixtures, the alternative would have been full expulsion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 I had to stop reading that thread on Livy lions Yeah, reading livilions for more than a few minutes is a bad idea, sympathy for them goes out the window very quickly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Yeah, reading livilions for more than a few minutes is a bad idea, sympathy for them goes out the window very quickly. Indeed. This was the point I stopped reading how any one can blame Livingston F.C for this mess is beyond me Words fail me 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 hahaha Good lord, I didn't see that one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) That's a good question. He wasn't around for very long, and I think our case was resolved in such a benign way that no drama queen declarations of impending doom (real or otherwise) seemed to utter from his mouth. That the whole deal went through on the back of 100% debt honouring would i imagine, have made it all a fairly simple process.In Livingston, he will be costing something like 1k a day..........quite possibly double that. Him hanging around for a year is a weird one financially. it can only be because he wants to wipe out the existing debt by a minimum of 50% (and more like 75%) and replacing it with 300k of his own debt. He seems much more pre-disposed to veiled threats than he ever was in our day. Maybe something he has learned over the years, but knowing someone who is already "in the insolvency practicioners game", he reckons old McGruther may well have already undermined his own credibility with some utterances that have proven to be based on nothing whatsoever. I see there are claims that the council and HMRC deals are already done. This I presume, is outwith a CVA. I would be interestiung to know what those "arrangements" actually are. I don't think your council leader is too keen on the subject becoming overly public. Cheers, this is a totally differant scenario then. Which has done nothing to ease my doubts! I think I shall just get into Vikington's grave now & await the rest of the fans! Edited to add- MCL isn't buried in the mass grave, He has a single grave of his own right, scribed on his headstone- Here lies MCL only person to ever gain money from Livi FC. Edited August 10, 2009 by phantoms-livi-lass 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 But of course they're blaming Ballantyne - it's the Livvy way. It has to be someone else's fault at all times.Pearse Flynn was defended on here with monotonous regularity. As soon as he went, it was all his fault for messing up Massone's plans, because at that stage Massone could do no wrong. When the penny finally dropped about Massone, HE became the baddy and they all threw abuse at him. Now they have their new saviours, Ballantyne's the new baddy, even though he has nothing to do with it. You couldn't expect to find a bigger shower of deluded fuckwits as you'll find on LiviLions. I'm just scunnered that I wasn't crafty enough to use a differant name on here then I could give everyone from here dugs abuse on LiviLions! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Oooh! this still exists what shall be the topic today? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 It'll still be here by Tuesday I reckon - the Third Division Forum is like The Land The Mods Forgot... Well, thats better than the OF forum - The Land The Mods Ignore 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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