T_S_A_R Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Rumours have been rife in Tennis for years, if there is one sport guaranteed that doping takes place, tennis is it. yip but don't say it in the tennis thread or people start greeting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Brilliant stuff from Gilbert just now, riders getting shelled out the back everywhere! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 tommy v is the man! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 what a final 25k! griepel outsprints cavendish, he'll enjoy that. superb finish with a decent wee climb to soften them up then enough bumps for attacks to go. the hilly finishes this year have been quality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ1210 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) and Greipel takes it from Cavendish, that must be a very sweet victory for him. Edited July 12, 2011 by SJ1210 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Kinda gutted Gilbert couldn't hang on, animated the run-in no end. Funny his team won the day, but Cavendish's 2nd place edges him nearer Gilbert for green. Cav looked a bit undergeared in that sprint. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 the fact that after more than a decade of reporting on doping people are still willing to believe the bullshit spouted by riders is staggering. contador was on liberty seguros, he was on astana, he was the only rider who could match micheal rasmussen climbing, he won the tour despite his whole team working against him, he's the best rider since armstrong. he has always been suspicious. now he gets caught with a banned substance in his system and people still want to give him the benefit of the doubt. it's like stockholm syndrome. i love watching football, cycling, tennis and boxing but i'm not going to kid myself on that doping doesn't happen on a huge level. I wouldn't disagree with you. You just have to read Greame Obree's biography, when he starts talking about being asked to go on a 'managed' programme with a doctor. As soon as he rejected this the offer of a ride on the continent was withdrawn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnash Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 he's the best rider since armstrong. The problem with that logic is that you'll never get away from the suspicion of cheating. The alternative point of view is that he's just that bit better than everyone else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 The problem with that logic is that you'll never get away from the suspicion of cheating. The alternative point of view is that he's just that bit better than everyone else. And the most likely point of view is that he does/has doped, & is also the most talented rider. Obviously doping still goes on, but not perhaps at the levels we saw in the Armstrong era. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 The problem with that logic is that you'll never get away from the suspicion of cheating. The alternative point of view is that he's just that bit better than everyone else. of course we're going to be suspicous. it's pro cycling! the real point of view is that he was already very suspicious and then he tested positive (the day after the final rest). if you can't put 2 + 2 together then your deluded. the biggest clue that he was doping was that he stood at the top of the podium in paris! since the early 90s (when epo use became widespread) we've seen indurian, riis, ullrich, pantani, armstrong, landis, sastre and contador all on the top step. sastre is the only one who might have been clean and 2008 was clearly the weakest race in decades. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 of course we're going to be suspicous. it's pro cycling! the real point of view is that he was already very suspicious and then he tested positive (the day after the final rest). if you can't put 2 + 2 together then your deluded. the biggest clue that he was doping was that he stood at the top of the podium in paris! since the early 90s (when epo use became widespread) we've seen indurian, riis, ullrich, pantani, armstrong, landis, sastre and contador all on the top step. sastre is the only one who might have been clean and 2008 was clearly the weakest race in decades. Under the directorship of Riis, I`m afraid he has major doubts hanging over him, they ALL do. Look at Gilbert now with the OFL revelations. So long thought of as a bastian of clean riding, can we even believe him? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) Under the directorship of Riis, I`m afraid he has major doubts hanging over him, they ALL do. Look at Gilbert now with the OFL revelations. So long thought of as a bastian of clean riding, can we even believe him? sastre beat evans because csc had a stronger team and better tactics, not because he was stronger than him. on the pivotal stage in the 2008 evans marked frank schleck while sastre went up the road at a steady pace. frank and andy then proceeded to double team evans constantly putting in wee bursts that tired him (and them) out. it obviously doesn't mean he's not doping but it was believable. i think gilbert has to be on the shit list. that attack today was ridiculous and the only way any rider would be confident of pulling it off would be if they believed they had an edge. Edited July 12, 2011 by T_S_A_R 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myshkin Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Kinda gutted Gilbert couldn't hang on, animated the run-in no end. Funny his team won the day, but Cavendish's 2nd place edges him nearer Gilbert for green. Cav looked a bit undergeared in that sprint. I think he just ran out of pace with less men to lead him out. Just a wee bit unlucky but gave it his best shot. I wouldn't disagree with you. You just have to read Greame Obree's biography, when he starts talking about being asked to go on a 'managed' programme with a doctor. As soon as he rejected this the offer of a ride on the continent was withdrawn. Yes that book did nothing for the reputation of a certain Robert Millar. I recall that he picked him up from the airport and suggested that some of the prize money they earned was directed into a 'performance slush' or some such euphamiism for a drug fund. of course we're going to be suspicous. it's pro cycling! the real point of view is that he was already very suspicious and then he tested positive (the day after the final rest). if you can't put 2 + 2 together then your deluded. the biggest clue that he was doping was that he stood at the top of the podium in paris! since the early 90s (when epo use became widespread) we've seen indurian, riis, ullrich, pantani, armstrong, landis, sastre and contador all on the top step. sastre is the only one who might have been clean and 2008 was clearly the weakest race in decades. Totally agree. I think you have to go back to Lemond for the last clean winner. That's based purely on how outspoken he is about the issue now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myshkin Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Gadret explains Not often you hear a Frenchman saying he prefers the Giro to the Tour. Gadret 4th at the Giro, & Dupont 12th at the Giro, both complaining of exhaustion. Other top 20 Giro finishers have already lost major time in the Tour; David Arroyo(14:15), Tiralongo(25:42). Only Kreuziger(2:29) and Contador(1:42) are still in contact with the leaders. Contadors major rivals should be taking note. Some may say that David Millar looks fresh after completing the Giro, but he rolled around Italy in comparison, finishing way back in 100th place, over 3 hours behind Contador. I think this Tour is about to get very interesting. I've been thinking about your theory and it's proving to be absolutely spot on. These are the riders that rode the Giro, where they finished that race, and where they sit currently in this one. 1st - Contador - 16th @ 4.07 4th - Gadret - 66th @ 25.09 6th - Kreuziger - 118th @ 46.30 12th - Dupont - 59th @ 21.15 14th - Arroyo - 82nd @ 30.05 19th - Tiralongo - 97th @ 35.18 25th - Kiryienka - withdrawn 28th - Hernandez - 162nd @ 1.04.30 44th - Navarro - 99th @ 37.31 58th - Hoogerland - 86th @ 31.36 64th - Popovic - withdrawn 81st - Porte - 84th @ 30.54 82nd - Szmyd - 87th @ 31.48 84th - Pineau - 49th @ 15.14 100th - Millar - 28th @ 5.32 110th - Engels - 176th @ 1.19.15 Obviously it will change a lot after the mountains but what stood out was the amount of time those that finished in the top 20 have already lost. Top five have already lost more time than any of them lost in the whole of the Giro. Kreuziger 4 times as much! Just goes to show how hard that Giro was on them. I wouldn't be rushing to back Contador on this evidence I have to say (more so when you see how much time Hernandez and Navarro have already lost). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) Obviously it will change a lot after the mountains but what stood out was the amount of time those that finished in the top 20 have already lost. Top five have already lost more time than any of them lost in the whole of the Giro. Kreuziger 4 times as much! Just goes to show how hard that Giro was on them. I wouldn't be rushing to back Contador on this evidence I have to say (more so when you see how much time Hernandez and Navarro have already lost). the fact kreuziger and gadret are struggling a bit actually makes me happy even though i like them. were it not for berties two crashes he would be up near the schleck's just now. we'll see what kind of climbing form he is in over the weekend. it's also worth noting that the last person to do the double was marco pantani. Edited July 13, 2011 by T_S_A_R 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 we're in business leopard trek tearing the peloton apart just now at the base of the tourmalet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 This has been great today, Frank Schleck has made a slight break and no one is going after him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 How the hell did Schleck get across so quickly?! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Contador lost 13 seconds to Andy and Cadel. Frank Schleck now in second. Edited July 14, 2011 by Mr. Brightside 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Oh and well done to Sami Sanchez. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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