Aberdeen's new stadium

[HibeeJibee]

Wasn't the original plan to get a lot of finance for the new ground from the council...? Plus weren't the council finances a basket case, before the recession/cuts?

[Dean Murdoch]

I tend to agree with much of the Aberdeen support in that a new stadium at Loirston is less than ideal. As someone above has said, part of the Saturday football experience is going to the pub in the city centre before heading to the stadium. This is part of the culture of football. For the most part, this is an experience that is lost on new stadiums located well outside the central core of the city.

Having been to many sporting events around North America, this is something I have seen first hand. American Football teams tend to build their stadiums in sububan areas on the outskirts of town so that there stadiums can have the better part of 50000 parking spaces. This allows for NFL fans to have a pre game tailgate before the game. This is a culture which does not exist in Scotland, or anywhere outside of football in the United States for that matter. While being located on the outside of town works for the NFL, it is something that will never work for Aberdeen or any other club for that matter.

[TheScarf]

I know Pittodrie is hardly the best looking stadium in the country but it fits all the fans we need and building a new stadium is going to waste money that could be spent on better players. Aberdeen FC say they will run a bus service in and out of the city center, which will undoubtedly not arrive within an hour of it leaving Loch Loirston. 

Why do you support two teams from the same small country? Thats a bit silly.

[Dosser91]

All credit to Aberdeen for being ambitious but I really can't see where the cash to fund this project is going to come from. Remember we're not talking about a basic 12,000 capacity stadium here. Even if Pittodrie is sold for housing there would still be a massive financial gap to bridge and I can't see Aberdeen City Council being able to chip in given the impending public spending cuts.

I'm sure though that every Scots footie fan will back Aberdeen over this.

[Ric]

Three issues really.

1) The ground.

Pittodrie is absolutely fine for the SPL. Ok, it could do with a lick of paint here and there, but it not only holds more than enough for Aberdeen crowds it also has numerous function suites for bringing in other revenue.

2) The club chairman.

Does anyone here think that, property tycoon, Stewart Milne is doing this altruistically? You don't get rich by letting good opportunities to make money pass you by. The idea that Milne's paws won't be all over the property/construction part of this deal is pretty hard to believe.

3) The location.

Aberdeen is "locked in" to the North and South with bottleneck junctions. Especially the south at the Brig O'Dee. To locate the ground either side of the city is folly and will increase travelling time immensely, even with the addition of the buses.

Despite all this, the club are desperate for the local tax payers to fund a ground that will not only be miles away from the community supporting it, but in the current climate will take money away from far more important causes. Personally I think this is a con from start to finish with Milne desperate to take a cut of public money for the development of the new ground, a cut from the development of the old ground and ultimately leave the club itself in no better position and now with an out of town stadium - most likely resulting in reduced attendance.

[EdTheDuck]

Mr Milne is going to make a fortune from Pittodrie - he's got almost everyone believing the Dons need a new stadium.

It isn't the manager the Dons should be getting shod of.

TBH cowden i think the idea that stewart milne is hanging around for the sale of pittodrie is a bit misleading

while he might be able to make a fair bit of money from clearing the place and squeezing in a bunch of flats it isn't going to suddenly catapault him into the realms of the super-rich and it isn't as if he doesn't have enough new builds going on all over aberdeen and its satellite towns anyway (besides which the main focus of his business seems to have shifted to Oxfordshire and the Deep South)

what i would say is that he and the other board members are culpable in allowing pittodrie to fall into the disrepair that necessitates a new stadium that the club cannot afford (and which the council have stated unequivocally they will not be contributing a penny towards) because whatever they raise from the sale of pittodrie a huge chunk of it will go straight to Johnny Banker and it's likely the club would be swapping one massive debt for another

[Aberdeen Cowden]

Three issues really.

1) The ground.

Pittodrie is absolutely fine for the SPL. Ok, it could do with a lick of paint here and there, but it not only holds more than enough for Aberdeen crowds it also has numerous function suites for bringing in other revenue.

2) The club chairman.

Does anyone here think that, property tycoon, Stewart Milne is doing this altruistically? You don't get rich by letting good opportunities to make money pass you by. The idea that Milne's paws won't be all over the property/construction part of this deal is pretty hard to believe.

3) The location.

Aberdeen is "locked in" to the North and South with bottleneck junctions. Especially the south at the Brig O'Dee. To locate the ground either side of the city is folly and will increase travelling time immensely, even with the addition of the buses.

Despite all this, the club are desperate for the local tax payers to fund a ground that will not only be miles away from the community supporting it, but in the current climate will take money away from far more important causes. Personally I think this is a con from start to finish with Milne desperate to take a cut of public money for the development of the new ground, a cut from the development of the old ground and ultimately leave the club itself in no better position and now with an out of town stadium - most likely resulting in reduced attendance.

Pittodrie won't be open to all bidders. It will be sold at a knock down price to the chairman who will fill the space with more eyesores.

Then the club will try and squeeze more money from the council to pay for the ground by calling it a "community stadium" (more profit for the developer)- aye, in the middle of nowhere so anyone using it will have to use public transport or drive to get there (some community stadium!)

The whole thing stinks - I'm not an Aberdeen fan but I live here and have many friends who are supporters - I do feel for these guys.

[La_Leyenda]

Mr Milne is going to make a fortune from Pittodrie - he's got almost everyone believing the Dons need a new stadium.

It isn't the manager the Dons should be getting shod of.

And who is taking over the club instead then? Maybe you're in the know and I'm not, but I don't see any local businessmen trying to takeover the club. In fact, was there not a wealthy Aberdeen fan named Melville who decided to plough his money into Dundee instead?

Plenty of people counter this by saying "people won't invest while Milne is there." Who are these people who refuse to invest because of Milne? Surely if they have the money and the club at heart, they'll come out publically and say it. Until these people come out and say it, it appears to just be forum talk.

Aberdeen is not a club making money at the moment, therefore only an uber fan with more money than sense would want to take over the club. Stuart Milne being there is our gaurantee with the bank - if Milne packs up tomorrow then we'll be in the same state as Rangers, but worse, because our turnover is a hell of a lot less.

As for the Stadium.

Someone pointed out above "Pittodrie only needs a lick of paint." Aye very good.

Much of the main stand was ruined by the fire years ago. The main stand is also slowly sinking. It is only a few years away from losing its safety certificate, meaning Aberdeen will have to close the stand, not only cutting the capacity, but because its the main stand that means we have to shut the offices, the changing rooms, the executive box, etc etc. It also wouldn't be suitable to host European football, so should Aberdeen be in the Europa League we would be playing our matches at Tannadice.

The club would have to completely rebuild the main stand, but with what money? How can they even rebuild on Pittodrie if they've nothing to sell to finance the deal in the first place? We're already in debt, rebuilding the main stand and constantly having to make upgrades to the stadium would set us even further into debt, which makes the comment of "Aberdeen should forget about a new stadium and invest in the team" laughable.

Hibs have been able to rebuild Easter Road because of the money they've made from selling players - they've made millions from it and have reinvested that into their ground, but even now John Hughes has admitted the new stand has meant they'll have to tighten their belts. Hearts have already vastly downgraded their plans for the new main stand at Tynecastle.

It was cheaper to buy land elsewhere, sell Pittodrie, and build a new stadium from scratch. Thats not the club lying to fans, the plans have been made clear for people to view, and cheapest option was Loirston.

As for getting there. Firstly, it won't take an hour to get there by bus, because there are bus lanes meaning these buses will be able to bypass most of the traffic. It will take 15 minutes maximum to get from the city centre to Loirston, and even then I could drive it now in five minutes. We seem to be talking about everyone from the city centre anyway, someone coming from the Mastrick or Northfield area might actually find it easier to get to loirston on match day then driving through the city centre on a Saturday.

There will actually be park and rides from across the city and the outskirts like Westhill, Kingswells etc going direct to the ground, actually saving everyone the bother of driving into the city centre. At present, not only is it a nightmare to get parked anywhere near pittodrie, but it takes an age to get home because you have to shift through the football traffic and then the 5pm city centre traffic. Away supporters buses actually need a police escort to get them out of the city.

The people who say parking will be a nightmare at Loirston - whats the parking like at Pittodrie? Its a nightmare at the best of times and will certainly be no better than the new stadium. At least the new stadium will have 2,000 parking spaces in a new carpark which will take some of the heat off those parking in surrounding areas.

And the queue for buses? Its the same as walking up from Pittodrie into Union street and trying to get a bus there, as every bus crawls through the traffic. From the new ground, buses will go to the city centre and to various park and rides.

Maybe I'm not that arsed about the wait to get on a bus because I'm used to going to Ibrox, Parkhead and Hampden, where fans have to queue to get on trains/underground, or are making a 45 minute walk home to the city centre. Its going to be no worse for Aberdeen fans, and in fact we're not putting up with crowds of 50,000 looking for transport either.

As for the ground itself, it will be a massive improvement on Pittodrie, a better atmosphere, and once people get over their gripes at having to move they'll get used to it, like you do for all new things. You'll fall in love with the stadium, have your favourite seat, and I think very few will actually still wish it was Pittodrie they were going to.

There will be pubs next to the stadium, one in fact is being built into the stadium I believe, and the city and support will evolve around the new stadium.

There are far more positives about the new stadium than negatives.

[Milners]

As for getting there. Firstly, it won't take an hour to get there by bus, because there are bus lanes meaning these buses will be able to bypass most of the traffic. It will take 15 minutes maximum to get from the city centre to Loirston, and even then I could drive it now in five minutes. We seem to be talking about everyone from the city centre anyway, someone coming from the Mastrick or Northfield area might actually find it easier to get to loirston on match day then driving through the city centre on a Saturday.

The people who say parking will be a nightmare at Loirston - whats the parking like at Pittodrie? Its a nightmare at the best of times and will certainly be no better than the new stadium. At least the new stadium will have 2,000 parking spaces in a new carpark which will take some of the heat off those parking in surrounding areas.

And the queue for buses? Its the same as walking up from Pittodrie into Union street and trying to get a bus there, as every bus crawls through the traffic. From the new ground, buses will go to the city centre and to various park and rides.

Maybe I'm not that arsed about the wait to get on a bus because I'm used to going to Ibrox, Parkhead and Hampden, where fans have to queue to get on trains/underground, or are making a 45 minute walk home to the city centre. Its going to be no worse for Aberdeen fans, and in fact we're not putting up with crowds of 50,000 looking for transport either.

As for the ground itself, it will be a massive improvement on Pittodrie, a better atmosphere, and once people get over their gripes at having to move they'll get used to it, like you do for all new things. You'll fall in love with the stadium, have your favourite seat, and I think very few will actually still wish it was Pittodrie they were going to.

There will be pubs next to the stadium, one in fact is being built into the stadium I believe, and the city and support will evolve around the new stadium.

There are far more positives about the new stadium than negatives.

It will not take 5 minutes to drive by car, just look at Altens in rush hour. We currently have three bridges that we can get over to the new stadium and most of the traffic will come from the north to get to the footie all at the same time. It will be a fucking nightmare to get to the new stadium - one that will put a lot of people off including myself although it will suit away fans!!!.

I actually find Parking at Pittodrie pretty good, i get very close to the stadium at 10 to 3.

We had a lot of land which we sold up year ago and had the chance to buy land where new flats are now and our board had the lack of foresight to buy this land and upgrade Pittodrie. Before Ian Donald was chairman we was not in debt, since Ian Donald decided to build Dick Donald stadium we went into debt and had to take Stewart Milne on board to clear the debt. Since Milne on the board our debt has continued to grow and now our only way of getting out of it is sell out stadium and have a council stadium overall. Milne and others on the board has slowly ruined our club and if there is someone out there that can run a football club then i would be gladly get rid of Milne.

[yon yes boy]

the fhans have shown they are glory hunters last season, so there is no need to build a bigger stadium until aberdeen start winning again.

Oi Boyd

Admit it either you are infatuated by the Dandy Dons the team, or the fans...

Or you are so lonely you trawl through other grounds looking for something to start an arguement, thus achieving your goal of human interaction...

Glory hunters indeed... as said on previous forums, (another AFC forum you stalked)..

We as dons fans will turn out in bigger numbers than your mob, based on percentage of fans - fans who turn up...

On the points of new stadium I have looked into the options of gradually improving Todders and even suggested turning the pitch 90 degrees and utilising the carpark to the south of the dickie donald ( behind the wee cooncil hoose ) but AFC to there credit seemed to have explored all avenues in regard to this, and it is not feasable at all...

By moving we can have a decent stadium, but a great facility for the city of Aberdeen. Incorporated training facilities and health centre. Improved settings for the players. There is alot higher chance of generating private and public money for a new project than a refurb... and even if Stewartie Milne gets the land for flats, he will have had to go through the expensive process and diligence of all other bidders for Pittodrie, and he will get it if its the best bid for the club, and the Linksfield areas generation... I will miss Todders though, and living the other side of town will make the Saturday trek to watch the Dons a real pain in the erse.... Imaging 1400 hrs on Wellington road....

[La_Leyenda]

It will not take 5 minutes to drive by car, just look at Altens in rush hour.

I never said it would take five minutes in rush hour, read what I said again, I said its a five minute drive just now. People are acting like its about 20 miles away. Its not.

We currently have three bridges that we can get over to the new stadium and most of the traffic will come from the north to get to the footie all at the same time. It will be a fucking nightmare to get to the new stadium - one that will put a lot of people off including myself although it will suit away fans!!!.

Does it put people off at the moment knowing that after a game at Pittodrie it will take them a good hour to get home, most of that is spent sitting in traffic?

And if it does put people off, then the traffic will be lighter, all the better for those who are going.

Before Ian Donald was chairman we was not in debt, since Ian Donald decided to build Dick Donald stadium we went into debt and had to take Stewart Milne on board to clear the debt.

Every reason why then we shouldn't build a new Main Stand. And like I've already said, if we don't move stadiums, then we will need to build one.

[DuncDon]

Why do you support two teams from the same small country?  Thats a bit silly.

Because i've lived in Aberdeen for longer but am also from the Highlands, where Ross County is the nearest team.

[Ric]

Someone pointed out above "Pittodrie only needs a lick of paint." Aye very good.

Ok, so it's not as minimal as that, and St.Mirren were in a similar position in regard to our stadium move, however Pittodrie is in a better state than Love Street was. I can't comment in regard to the structural situation, but if the stadia are falling to bits, why on earth should the tax payers stump up the cash to bail you out in the current financial climate?

If I let my private house degenerate to a state where it's not safe, can I just ask the council to provide land and funding for free for a new one while I sell or develop the plot I currently have? No of course not, and that is the analogy we have here.

It will take 15 minutes maximum to get from the city centre to Loirston, and even then I could drive it now in five minutes.

During the rush hour or a Saturday afternoon? I doubt it, especially if you come from the North and need to not only navigate the bridges to the North and South but also the city centre or the random chance Anderson road.

All that will happen is the back road to Cove (round Altens) will become a death trap of fans belting down single track roads in order to beat the jams at the bridge.

[Dindeleux]

I know plenty of guys who travel from different towns to get to games, having the ground at Loirston is no excuse for not making games, get the bus, drive your car.... if they are not willing to do that then they can hardly class themselves as supporters

Thats because you know hundreds of stinking glory hunting b*****ds.

[La_Leyenda]

Ok, so it's not as minimal as that, and St.Mirren were in a similar position in regard to our stadium move, however Pittodrie is in a better state than Love Street was. I can't comment in regard to the structural situation, but if the stadia are falling to bits, why on earth should the tax payers stump up the cash to bail you out in the current financial climate?

If I let my private house degenerate to a state where it's not safe, can I just ask the council to provide land and funding for free for a new one while I sell or develop the plot I currently have? No of course not, and that is the analogy we have here.

Heart warming story, except the council aren't paying for it, so you are misinformed.

The council were approached to help fund the stadium, and it was going to be a community stadium with a second stadium added onto it, with an astro turf pitch and seating capacity I think (from memory) of 2,000 which would be Aberdeen's training ground, Cove Rangers home stadium, and would be used at night for a variety of community projects.

The council said no, so that part of the stadium has been scrapped.

Aberdeen are funding the stadium themselves, and looking for local investors to help with this. The council are only given planning permission, they have not granted any funds for it.

The land may well be the council's, but Aberdeen FC, just like any other business in the city, is entitled to submit plans to build on it, which is why there is a public consultation currently ongoing.

And, with respect, although your daft nation of building your house was fun to read, what money would that make the local council? Aberdeen FC bring a lot of money into the city and generate spending at ohter local businesses, do you generate that in your own town?

During the rush hour or a Saturday afternoon? I doubt it, especially if you come from the North and need to not only navigate the bridges to the North and South but also the city centre or the random chance Anderson road.

Like I've already said, buses have their own lane, and despite everyone's comical grasp of geography the new stadium is not actually that far away from the city centre.

A bus, heading on its own private bus lane, sharing it only with other buses, would not take more than 15 minutes to get from city centre to stadium, and even then that is taking into account it being busy.

All that will happen is the back road to Cove (round Altens) will become a death trap of fans belting down single track roads in order to beat the jams at the bridge.

So the stadium shouldn't be built there, because some fans will drive too fast on certain roads?

Come on, you've got to come up with better than this.

[Milners]

I never said it would take five minutes in rush hour, read what I said again, I said its a five minute drive just now. People are acting like its about 20 miles away. Its not.

Does it put people off at the moment knowing that after a game at Pittodrie it will take them a good hour to get home, most of that is spent sitting in traffic?

And if it does put people off, then the traffic will be lighter, all the better for those who are going.

Every reason why then we shouldn't build a new Main Stand. And like I've already said, if we don't move stadiums, then we will need to build one.

Not from the centre of town it doesn't take long as many different routes to get back or there. Just depends which road you take. Sadly with new stadium there is only 3 routes over the bridges you can go and if 8,000 trying to get there at the same time it will be a nightmare.

I don't disagree we need a new stadium because we have left Pittodrie to come a shithole and have very little options left to us to recover the debt problems we have. Sadly i think the location is wrong but again we can't complain much because they have put all their eggs into one basket on this project. What happens if this doesn't happen, it would be very dark days for the club thats for sure. The board has mismanaged our financial dealings for years and apart from the uefa cup run one year we have lost at least a million every season.

[La_Leyenda]

Not from the centre of town it doesn't take long as many different routes to get back or there. Just depends which road you take. Sadly with new stadium there is only 3 routes over the bridges you can go and if 8,000 trying to get there at the same time it will be a nightmare.

If I park at the current stadium, then it takes me a good hour to get home to Westhill, and it doesn't matter what route I take. I'm either having to go through Union Street, or can try bypass it and go through Seaton, or further on and go through Bridge of Don, or try go the same way as the away supporters buses and go near, ironically, Altens/Cove.

All routes take me an hour from getting into the car to actually getting home - 45 minutes if I'm very lucky and the crowd has been small. It shorter if its a lunchtime kick-off or midweek game obviously, but for a 3pm kick off, saturday afternoon, with a crowd of over 15,000, you're looking at an hour to get home.

Even if I take public transport, its a good 15 minute walk to Union Street before I get my bus anyway.

It'll take me no longer to get home from Cove.

Besides, like I said before, look at Glasgow and how long it takes to get home from their three stadiums, its not a new phenomenon.

[Ric]

Come on, you've got to come up with better than this.

I'm not "coming up" with anything, me ol' mucker. Build it next to Peterhead docks for all I care.. ..but living in the city for 5 years taught me enough about the council planners to know that Aberdeen will remain a traffic bottleneck for many years to come. Buses or not.

I also think there will be some creaming off the top by Milne in all of this. Conjecture? Conspiracy? Of course, but there's just too much opportunity for him not to get involved. And if he does it'll be a conflict of interests.

As for the funding, if Aberdeen is now funding this without public money then I apologise as that was what I was lead to believe.

[yon yes boy]

I think we are getting too bogged down with who knows the streets of Aberdeen better than the next guy.

The simple fact is Pittodrie is NOT fit for purpose, changing the situation on the existing site has been studied, examined and looked at in mega detail, and its not possible.

For all the people who think Stewart Milne is covering debt and loosing money hand over fist so he can build another flat complex are deluded.

He is a successful business man who knows how to make something profitable, he would be much better making money from owning AFC, ie make the club profitable, thus recouping his initial investment then selling the club at a profit... Far more of a sensible move than just building a couple of flats, besides don't you think he has enough projects already... and the land he owns for future development... forget about it...

So we have established Todders is finished, or as damned as near it... and Stewie boy ain't fannying about to just win an extra building contract... SO WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE US?

We have to relocate.

All the people on this forum arguing about how long it takes to go to Loriston should be also aware that anywhere in the city is a FOOKIN nightmare, La Leyenda is right if you stay in Banchory, Stonehaven, Westhill, Alford or even just west end of the city getting home from Todders takes ages, its a nightmare (2 hours once to get to Peterculter)... Even getting across to the Bridge of Don can take ages with all the hold ups on King Street. There is nowhere in this city that is easy to travel to and from, the bypass (if it ever happens) might help but until then the city is terrible for moving around. Anybody work in DYCE? tried getting out of there at half 4? thats with flexitime, imagine all at once...

They tried a site in Westhill / Kingswells which admittedly I thought was better over all for access from all routesme coming from Ellon could go through Bridge of Don, or go the Inverurie route, but that was thrown out... so where else is there?

There is no where else! People will still drink before the game, just they will form a different route, and new pubs will arrive. It is by far the easiest option for the travelling support, for the vast majority of teams. And its proximity to the City Centre means people will still come into town but instead of heading down King Street and Spittal, we will work our way down Market street, Crown street and Holburn. And Again coming from Ellon... the exact wrong side of town for getting to Altens... but again as Lelayenda said... compared to Glasgow stadiums!!!

I wish we could have a better pittodrie, I wish it was an option structually, and financially, to redevelop pittodrie, but it isn't and I can't suggest a better location myself, other than out towards Kingswells - Langstracht area, which isn't available.

[Aberdeen Cowden]

I think we are getting too bogged down with who knows the streets of Aberdeen better than the next guy.

For all the people who think Stewart Milne is covering debt and loosing money hand over fist so he can build another flat complex are deluded.

He is a successful business man who knows how to make something profitable, he would be much better making money from owning AFC, ie make the club profitable, thus recouping his initial investment then selling the club at a profit... Far more of a sensible move than just building a couple of flats, besides don't you think he has enough projects already... and the land he owns for future development... forget about it...

So we have established Todders is finished, or as damned as near it... and Stewie boy ain't fannying about to just win an extra building contract... SO WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE US?

We have to relocate.

All the people on this forum arguing about how long it takes to go to Loriston should be also aware that anywhere in the city is a FOOKIN nightmare, La Leyenda is right if you stay in Banchory, Stonehaven, Westhill, Alford or even just west end of the city getting home from Todders takes ages, its a nightmare (2 hours once to get to Peterculter)... Even getting across to the Bridge of Don can take ages with all the hold ups on King Street. There is nowhere in this city that is easy to travel to and from, the bypass (if it ever happens) might help but until then the city is terrible for moving around. Anybody work in DYCE? tried getting out of there at half 4? thats with flexitime, imagine all at once...

They tried a site in Westhill / Kingswells which admittedly I thought was better over all for access from all routesme coming from Ellon could go through Bridge of Don, or go the Inverurie route, but that was thrown out... so where else is there?

There is no where else! People will still drink before the game, just they will form a different route, and new pubs will arrive. It is by far the easiest option for the travelling support, for the vast majority of teams. And its proximity to the City Centre means people will still come into town but instead of heading down King Street and Spittal, we will work our way down Market street, Crown street and Holburn. And Again coming from Ellon... the exact wrong side of town for getting to Altens... but again as Lelayenda said... compared to Glasgow stadiums!!!

I wish we could have a better pittodrie, I wish it was an option structually, and financially, to redevelop pittodrie, but it isn't and I can't suggest a better location myself, other than out towards Kingswells - Langstracht area, which isn't available.

Have you any idea how many "flats" could be built on the Pittodrie site ? and being in Aberdeen even now most would be sold at a premium before they are even completed. Other projects haven't been going well.

I too live in Westhill and can assure you that the worst place in Aberdeen to get to when it is busy is the Altens area and hardly anyone would able to walk to the games.