Swarley Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Just watched it back again and found a small plot flaw. When Sansa was talking to Ramsay at the end she said to him that he said himself his dogs were ravenous as they hadn't been fed for 7 days. How did she know, Ramsay said that after she had ridden off telling him he would die in the morning? Just saying like. Maybe Jon told her when they were recounting their day at supper time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) The whole Ramsay deliberately firing on his own troops is pure Hollywood bullshit (up there with people being shot underwater in "Saving Private Ryan" in terms of poetic licence) to show how ruthless he is, & would never happen in the sort of medieval battles GoT tries to mimic. The routine of a medieval battle was for the archers to fire volleys first to try & thin out the enemy (& hopefully cause his poorest troops to panic & flee), & to withdraw them behind the rest of the army once the cavalry charged or once the army came to direct blows with the enemy. Archers were considered highly valuable because of the time required to train good ones, & would not be left open to the risk of cavalry breaking through to slaughter them. They were also a focus of resentment because they were better paid than the infantry & were less likely to have to get their hands dirty directly by hand-to-hand (in that respect The Hound's frequent distain for archers is a pretty accurate portrayal of how they were viewed by those swinging a sword or holding a pike. It's important to remember that the sorts of armies of medieval/feudal times were more a loose ragbag, with discipline always a problem particularly between the different types of soldiers. Those that were having to do their obligatory service to their lord (where how comfortable a time they had was entirely dependent on themselves) would be pissed at the professionals such as the archers or those taken from castle retinues who had better pay & conditions; & in all likelihood having a better chance of survival. The long a campaign went on, the greater the chances of them "kicking off" over some grievance or another: therefore having your archers deliberately firing at their own troops was a non-starter if you didn't want to find a horde of your own troops storming back with the enemy in tow looking to murder your archers where they stood. TL:DR short answer version: my old Uni prof Matthew Strickland (probably Britain's foremost expert on the longbow) said of THAT scene in "Braveheart" that Hollywood has done similar with some Baron Von Baddunvyle type doing so "in order to save troop wages at the battle's end!" & it was hokum - the laws of chivalry (which were taken surprisingly very seriously) as well as that of a lord's duty to his men would have meant any commander making such an order would be lucky to live another hour. So-called "friendly fire" incidents are more the preserve of the gunpowder age & mass armies where troops were that bit more expendible & the bond between the commanders & those they command grew far more impersonal. Your discussion is based on professional longbowmen, not archers. Ordinary archers were not treated as highly prized or favoured troops but rather as poorly trained, skirmish fodder in 99% of all battles - including the vast majority of medieval battles outside of the British Isles. And competent generals did not give a shit about either their wellbeing or that of the grunts in the front line, so long as victory in battle was secured. Which largely came down to heavy cavalry in the comparable period of technology to that in GoT. Battles in the ancient world involved many tens of thousands of soldiers battering into each other, with all sorts of skirmish troops launching missiles into that mass of troops from the side and rear, as pretty much all the historical accounts show. Your rose-tinted view of a lost age of chivalry then is bollocks. Carry on with the thread after this minor detour. Edited June 23, 2016 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChoppeReid Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Realistically, Ghost would surely never have survived that battle. Glad he wasn't there/killed. Need some direwolves left alive.What Direwolves are still alive?Johns and Arya's spring to mind but not sure about the others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 What Direwolves are still alive? Johns and Arya's spring to mind but not sure about the others. All dead apart from those 2. Not seen nymeria (arya's) since season 1 when she released it. Presumably roaming wild now 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghead ranter Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Book w****r alert. In the books, the only two wargs powerful enough to warg into humans are Bran and a wildling called Varymyr Sixskins, who died of his wounds after Stannis defeated the wildlings. It's mentioned that warging into something is basically about the strength of will of that being. Humans are obviously much more difficult than animals as they have much higher individuality and willpower to resist the warg. Even the direwolves are only really wargable for the Stark kids because they're so comfortable with them. Bran can warg into Hodor, essentially because Hodor was minimal will power of his own and Bran is the most gifted warg in Westeros. Varymyr couldn't even warg into an old woman to save his life at the end. It's extremely unlikely that anyone but the most powerful warg would be able to warg into another human and control their actions. Thank you for both entertaining my thoughts and replying. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiviLion Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Just watched it back again and found a small plot flaw. When Sansa was talking to Ramsay at the end she said to him that he said himself his dogs were ravenous as they hadn't been fed for 7 days. How did she know, Ramsay said that after she had ridden off telling him he would die in the morning? Just saying like. Why do people think it's impossible for anything to be said off screen? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spain Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Why do people think it's impossible for anything to be said off screen? Exactly. Who's to say it was even Sansa's idea? She might have just turned up and asked, "What have you done with thon p***k Ramsay?" to which the reply from someone was "Giving him a taste of his own medicine. He hasn't fed his dugs in 7 days so we've tied him up and thrown him in there with them to see what happens". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 It's just part of an annoying trend where people overly care about any and all plot holes and want to point them out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milton75 Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Question - Wargs can take control of humans as well as animals, yes? If so, why doesn't someone get a warg to take control of someone really important ie a king, and therefore run the place? Think that the 3 eyed raven said something about never coming back out if you warg for too long. That is the case, and make me wonder - Did George RR ever read Pratchett? Because that chat is precisely the stuff that's said about the witches "borrowing" animals. And came at least 4 years earlier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 That is the case, and make me wonder - Did George RR ever read Pratchett? Because that chat is precisely the stuff that's said about the witches "borrowing" animals. And came at least 4 years earlier. To be fair to Pratchett that one is an old device, possessing (or "borrowing" as Prachett called it) being an alternative to the witch's familiar or transmogrifying themselves into another creature (hares and ravens being popular choices). Part of the reason for doing so is they had different sensual perceptions to humans and so helped keep the witch more attuned with "magical forces". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamdunk Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 I've seen a more claustrophobic scene than the crush one there, but can't remember the name of it lol. It was some french horror film. I left the whole series til this week and have caned it. Enjoyed it a lot, but not enough Margery for my liking. Hopefully she has a belter of a final episode. Don't see it happening, think she's on a slow burner of a plan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gianfranco Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 I'm excited. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I'm excited.I'm beyond buzzin. Watching battle or the b*****ds again just now in preparation 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grass Is Greener. Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I'm beyond buzzin. Watching battle or the b*****ds again just now in preparation I just done the same thing so it's like back to back seeing them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi-91 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) Oh my. Next season is going to be a belter. Edited June 27, 2016 by Yoshi-91 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grass Is Greener. Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Yes yes yes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal McGuire Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Holy f**k that was good 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooky Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Ooft. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 That was too much. How are we supposed to sleep after that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grass Is Greener. Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I fucking love Cersei, the evil bitch that she is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.