Hillsborough debate

[Tamdunk]

I highly doubt that, it's political point scoring to absolve the fans of any blame whatsoever.

 

Was it not just a jury of the public?

[Rugster]

The whole shite about all seater stadiums should be looked at again. We know the authorities lied and covered up what happened at Hillsborough. The police and the footballing authorities, in conjunction with the government, used these lies and cover up to force select recommendations of the Taylor report on to clubs.

 

 

Happily the SPFL have no all seater rule, but the police and local councils are seemingly still unwilling to grant a safety certificate to clubs in Scotland should they revert to terracing, despite them being fine with grounds that still have terracing. Basically they don't want terracing to come back to top grounds, and since it's only lower league grounds who have it, they aren't bothered with them as they don't attract as many fans.

 

 

The whole 'safe standing' stuff is laughable shite. Just give us terracing that is in good condition, is well maintained, has enough crush barriers and has a strict capacity that is never exceeded. There is absolutely nothing unsafe about standing.

100% correct.

[GAD]

Was it not just a jury of the public?

No, political stooges apparently who must have been forced into giving a verdict that two years of evidence didn't support.

[Falcor Roar]

Tin foil hat brigade out in force in this thread.  

[MONKMAN]

There's no way the enquiry was ever going to see the fans in any way accountable, for what happened that day.

[GAD]

There's no way the enquiry was ever going to see the fans in any way accountable, for what happened that day.

Probably because they weren't.

[killienick]

I feel dirty after reading some of the comments included in this thread.

[Sergeant Wilson]

Probably because they weren't.

Any of them? I understand the people hurt or killed were blameless. But a criminal investigation will need to look at all the circumstances.

Should the criminally poor response by the police absolve any others of culpability for their behaviour?

[Theo Snelders]

Any of them? I understand the people hurt or killed were blameless. But a criminal investigation will need to look at all the circumstances.

Should the criminally poor response by the police absolve any others of culpability for their behaviour?

 

FFS, I can't believe that that the findings of a jury, after sitting for two years,are still being questioned.

Archie and me have already posted a film of what went on.

Lots of reading here, but those who are interested, the evidence is all here.

 

https://hillsboroughinquests.independent.gov.uk/

[Jimmy85]

#JFT96

[AyrshireTon]

Couple of things -

1. "Unlawfully killed" - I don't get the phrasing here. No one is ever "lawfully killed" in this country unless shot by police in the act of a crime. Given that all deaths are "unlawful" this doesn't set them apart from any others. Wouldn't "accidental death" or "death by neglect/omission" have been more accurate?

2. The fans have been cleared of any blame. I'm taking this to mean that everyone had tickets (as I've had pointed out to me here before when I dared to suggest ticketless fans had to shoulder some blame). Given that there's no way all those fans would have fitted in that terracing, whose idea was it to print off and sell too many tickets for that end of the ground?

I don't think this is all done by a long shot. Blame, resignations and compensation stuff will follow soon.

[Theo Snelders]

#JFT96

Indeed. Folk forget this could have happened to any of us at the time.

[ayrmad]

FFS, I can't believe that that the findings of a jury, after sitting for two years,are still being questioned.

Archie and me have already posted a film of what went on.

Lots of reading here, but those who are interested, the evidence is all here.

 

https://hillsboroughinquests.independent.gov.uk/

That's what happens when people are blinkered/racist/bigoted I'm afraid.

[ayrmad]

Couple of things -

1. "Unlawfully killed" - I don't get the phrasing here. No one is ever "lawfully killed" in this country unless shot by police in the act of a crime. Given that all deaths are "unlawful" this doesn't set them apart from any others. Wouldn't "accidental death" or "death by neglect/omission" have been more accurate?

2. The fans have been cleared of any blame. I'm taking this to mean that everyone had tickets (as I've had pointed out to me here before when I dared to suggest ticketless fans had to shoulder some blame). Given that there's no way all those fans would have fitted in that terracing, whose idea was it to print off and sell too many tickets for that end of the ground?

I don't think this is all done by a long shot. Blame, resignations and compensation stuff will follow soon.

I don't know if there were more tickets than spaces, 1/2 that terrace was virtually empty and not all the turnstiles were in operation.

[Tom Rogic]

I don't know if there were more tickets than spaces, 1/2 that terrace was virtually empty and not all the turnstiles were in operation.

That was it in a nutshell. Side pens were half empty while two central pens were fatally overcrowded

[Jacksgranda]

Any of them? I understand the people hurt or killed were blameless. But a criminal investigation will need to look at all the circumstances.

Should the criminally poor response by the police absolve any others of culpability for their behaviour?

 

I agree with you Sarge.

[AyrshireTon]

I don't know if there were more tickets than spaces, 1/2 that terrace was virtually empty and not all the turnstiles were in operation.

  

That was it in a nutshell. Side pens were half empty while two central pens were fatally overcrowded

Thank you for that.

[Theo Snelders]

Couple of things -

1. "Unlawfully killed" - I don't get the phrasing here. No one is ever "lawfully killed" in this country unless shot by police in the act of a crime. Given that all deaths are "unlawful" this doesn't set them apart from any others. Wouldn't "accidental death" or "death by neglect/omission" have been more accurate?

2. The fans have been cleared of any blame. I'm taking this to mean that everyone had tickets (as I've had pointed out to me here before when I dared to suggest ticketless fans had to shoulder some blame). Given that there's no way all those fans would have fitted in that terracing, whose idea was it to print off and sell too many tickets for that end of the ground?

I don't think this is all done by a long shot. Blame, resignations and compensation stuff will follow soon.

 

Manslaughter. That is what charges would be under the terms you describe.

 

Can't explain your second point,although Liverpool did ask fans to send tickets back in to attempt to account for all those in attendance. Those who died had tickets on their person.

As previously noted, Liverpool asked to change ends after crushing the previous year- and that was with crowd control in place.

[Jacksgranda]

Manslaughter. That is what charges would be under the terms you describe.

 

Can't explain your second point,although Liverpool did ask fans to send tickets back in to attempt to account for all those in attendance. Those who died had tickets on their person.

As previously noted, Liverpool asked to change ends after crushing the previous year- and that was with crowd control in place.

 

Was changing ends not having both sets of fans coming in the "wrong" way, i.e. Leppings Lane was the end convenient for Liverpool and the other end convenient for Nottingham?

[Theo Snelders]

Was changing ends not having both sets of fans coming in the "wrong" way, i.e. Leppings Lane was the end convenient for Liverpool and the other end convenient for Nottingham?

 

Yes Granda, that's why the police refused the request.