sjc Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 The Taylor report cleared ticketless fans did it not? To say the police were negligent is the biggest understatement possible. The complete mess they made of things on that day and to then begin a massive cover up like they did and the days after shows South Yorkshire Police to be the horrible force that they are when there had been serious problems in Semi Finals at that ground in previous years before 89. The 30 for 30 doc is supposed to be excellent but it won't be shown in the UK until the current proceedings are over. How can ticketless fans entering a confined & restricted space be deemed blameless? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 The failure of the "Justice" campaign to acknowledge the scumbaggery of many Liverpool fans on that day still leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Quick to blame others, slow to look at their own fellow fans for their disgraceful behaviour on the day in question. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Lanley Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Some posters on this thread need to get a fucking grip. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Some posters on this thread need to get a fucking grip. I do hope you're not suggesting me Doyle? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Lanley Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I do hope you're not suggesting me Doyle? Nah mate. Just the morons who think it's okay to post disgusting posts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McB Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 The failure of the "Justice" campaign to acknowledge the scumbaggery of many Liverpool fans on that day still leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Quick to blame others, slow to look at their own fellow fans for their disgraceful behaviour on the day in question. Always the victims. The irony, the cruel and horrible irony, is that they contributed to the deaths of their own fans. They do have form. http://www.theguardian.com/football/2007/may/25/newsstory.sport8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_BullyWee Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 How can ticketless fans entering a confined & restricted space be deemed blameless? He stated in the report that there was some fans without tickets but they were not the cause and it was the police losing control which caused it to happen. Hillsborough had semi finals taken away from it from 1982 until 1987 as people almost died in 1981 and the ground didn't even have a safety certificate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McB Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Nah mate. Just the morons who think it's okay to post disgusting posts. Name the posts please and explain why, in your opinion , they are disgusting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 He stated in the report that there was some fans without tickets but they were not the cause and it was the police losing control which caused it to happen. Hillsborough had semi finals taken away from it from 1982 until 1987 as people almost died in 1981 and the ground didn't even have a safety certificate. I've never said the Police or the facilities at Hillsborough were without blame but take away the ticketless fans that entered the confined & restricted space there would have been no crush & therefore no loss of life. That can't be denied. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McB Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 He stated in the report that there was some fans without tickets but they were not the cause and it was the police losing control which caused it to happen. http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/report/main-section/part-2/chapter-12/page-2/ Not quite. The relevant parts are 2.12.15 Later in the evening, however, the SYP Chief Constable, Peter Wright, stated that the gate had been opened on the instruction of a police officer to relieve the crush outside the stadium caused by the late arrival of thousands of Liverpool fans, many without tickets.[5] Yes the police f'cked up major league, no question. But: Hillsborough, heysel, Athens., it's not SYP that is the common factor here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_BullyWee Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I've never said the Police or the facilities at Hillsborough were without blame but take away the ticketless fans that entered the confined & restricted space there would have been no crush & therefore no loss of life. That can't be denied. Yes it can, that's absolute nonsense you have just posted. If the Police had closed the entrance to the tunnel before opening the gate then the fans would have been able to go into the 2 pens that had plenty of space left in them but Duckenfield didn't know what do to and completely froze and then started everything off by lying to Graham Kelly by telling him the gate had been forced open. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Yes it can, that's absolute nonsense you have just posted. If the Police had closed the entrance to the tunnel before opening the gate then the fans would have been able to go into the 2 pens that had plenty of space left in them but Duckenfield didn't know what do to and completely froze and then started everything off by lying to Graham Kelly by telling him the gate had been forced open. By the same token.....IF the fans (regardless or ticket or not) hadn't entered a confined & restricted space that they had no right to be in then said space wouldn't have become overcrowded. Duty of Care applies to everyone. Liverpool fans included......and the fans that entered that area of the ground without tickets or a ticket for another part of the ground aren't without blame. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_BullyWee Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 By the same token.....IF the fans (regardless or ticket or not) hadn't entered a confined & restricted space that they had no right to be in then said space wouldn't have become overcrowded. Duty of Care applies to everyone. Liverpool fans included......and the fans that entered that area of the ground without tickets or a ticket for another part of the ground aren't without blame. That makes absolutely no sense at all. The fans had no idea at all what was awaiting them when they got into that tunnel that took them into the pen and that was the job of the police who when the main pen had became crowded the police should have closed the entrance to the main pen and started sending the fans into the other two pens. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) That makes absolutely no sense at all. The fans had no idea at all what was awaiting them when they got into that tunnel that took them into the pen and that was the job of the police who when the main pen had became crowded the police should have closed the entrance to the main pen and started sending the fans into the other two pens.Why does it make no sense? Yes the Police were negligent in their actions & inactions but these fans also had a duty of care for their own actions & inactions that affected the safety of not just themselves but others......no matter how desperate they were to see the game.If I dug a hole and left it unbarriered and you came and fell in, I'd be negligent......but if you came along and were pushed into the hole those person(s) that pushed you would also be deemed negligent. Edited December 31, 2014 by sjc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 The failure of the "Justice" campaign to acknowledge the scumbaggery of many Liverpool fans on that day still leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Quick to blame others, slow to look at their own fellow fans for their disgraceful behaviour on the day in question. Look over footage from the day and find any sort of disgraceful behaviour from them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Look over footage from the day and find any sort of disgraceful behaviour from them I think H_B is referring to their actions outside the ground that day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I think H_B is referring to their actions outside the ground that day. I don't think they were fighting among themselves, did football fans have a bad reputation of fighting each other in the 80's? The police fucked it up and used the bad reputation of Liverpool fans and other hooliganism at the time to get off the hook IMO Im no fan of the Liverpool supporters and think Heysel was a disgrace but in this case it wasn't their fault 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 The issue wasn't that they were fighting but that there was a ticketless element present outside the ground which resulted in conjestion and a crush which resulted in the Police openning the gates which was the wrong decision, as was the cover up. But without one action you wouldn't have had the resulting actions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 There were supporters who were showing their tickets to the cameras after saying that they never even checked the tickets just sent them through so that in itself is a fault of the police. Was sure i read someone say that the liverpool fans were stupid to go down that tunnel but i think thats unfair because when you are in a crowd you need to have proper stewarding other wise people don't know where to go so i don't see that as a fair statement either 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I agree with your point regards stewarding but if you don't have permission (i.e a ticket) to be in a confined & restricted space you have no right being there with you've very presence causing a hazard to yourself & others due to the nature of the confined space. I'm not solely blaming the Liverpool fans but there was an element there that day who's actions (exasperated by the Police's actions/inactions) that led to the deaths of 96 Liverpool fans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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