Bearwithme Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 The very fact that your clubs owner (Craig Whyte) has virtually conceded that Rangers will lose the case by taking the club into administration PRIOR to the case being decided should tell you something. I don't care what anyone thinks..........Craig Whyte's plan was ALWAYS to liquidate Rangers then start as a debt free Newco and sell for a profit. Your "fact" is really your own interpretation of the situation. I don't pretend to know everything about the situation but if Whyte always wanted to liquidate why didn't he just go for a pre-pack rather than taking the club into admin? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckinho Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 What about 2 minutes silence or something - I have no idea what would work. Or everyone wears black or something... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Your "fact" is really your own interpretation of the situation. I don't pretend to know everything about the situation but if Whyte always wanted to liquidate why didn't he just go for a pre-pack rather than taking the club into admin? Your right it is only my interpretation. I believe he took this route as a football club is not a "normal" business in that they have supporters and not customers with a lot of emotional attachment. So I believe he took the club into Administration as means of being seen to try and save the club in it current form. i.e force the HMRC's(main creditor) hand with "x"p in the pound offer which we all know will never be accepted thus only leaving one alternative.......... again......only MY interpretation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) Your right it is only my interpretation. I believe he took this route as a football club is not a "normal" business in that they have supporters and not customers with a lot of emotional attachment. So I believe he took the club into Administration as means of being seen to try and save the club in it current form. i.e force the HMRC's(main creditor) hand with "x"p in the pound offer which we all know will never be accepted thus only leaving one alternative.......... again......only MY interpretation. It's my interpretation too, but surely even the Rangers fans who post on here can't deny that in the world of football club administration, this has been one helluva' strange one. So, excuse our interpretations of a situation that includes Ticketus, Whyte, the appointment of Haudit and Daudit, no compulsory staff redundancies, no compulsory player redundancies, Blue Knights in, Blue Knights out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about.... Brian Kennedy in, out, in, but only if no-one else can be arsed. Singapore geezers, American geezers making demands of the SPL, Germans, Chicago-based asset-strippers, sorry, sports groups. Ticketus in with the Blue Knights, out with the Blue Knights. Collyer Bristow being sued, deadlines set in invisible ink, Whyte declared irrelevant... need I go on? It stinks to high heaven. Still, if the teddy bears on here think it'll be alright on the night.... Christ, good luck to you guys, but I fear for your future. Just my interpretation! Edited April 22, 2012 by pozbaird 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 It's my interpretation too, but surely even the Rangers fans who post on here can't deny that in the world of football club administration, this has been one helluva' strange one. So, excuse our interpretations of a situation that includes Ticketus, Whyte, the appointment of Haudit and Daudit, no compulsory staff redundancies, no compulsory player redundancies, Blue Knights in, Blue Knights out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about.... Brian Kennedy in, out, in, but only if no-one else can be arsed. Singapore geezers, American geezers making demands of the SPL, Germans, Chicago-based asset-strippers, sorry, sports groups. Ticketus in with the Blue Knights, out with the Blue Knights. Collyer Bristow being sued, deadlines set in invisible ink, Whyte declared irrelevant... need I go on? It stinks to high heaven. Still, if the teddy bears on here think it'll be alright on the night.... Christ, good luck to you guys, but I fear for your future. Just my interpretation! Agreed.....but deep down I think we all suspect that Newco Rangers will come out the other end debt free in the SPL with little in the way of recourse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 What about 2 minutes silence or something - I have no idea what would work. Or everyone wears black or something... Considering events at Manchester and elsewhere, it's more likely to be two minutes of violence knowing that lot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indicator Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 The only really effective action would be for multiple thousands of non-OF fans to boycott the Scottish game. Despite what we are seeing on this site, I doubt that would happen. Anything else will be a waste of time but, but could certainly be welcomed by the usual media suspects. Presenting them with loads of useable comedy material for their tabloid rag, radio or TV programme. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 The taxman is constantly trying to crack down on tax planning. Companies, individuals and their accountants are constantly trying to come up with new ways to reduce tax liabilities. If you're going to get hysterical about every one you'll be in a pretty bad state. Incidentally, do you know your team are playing right now? http://www.contractoruk.com/ebt/ Tell it to hmrc And who cares ...champs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenpot Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 http://www.contractoruk.com/ebt/ Tell it to hmrc And who cares ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 The very fact that your clubs owner (Craig Whyte) has virtually conceded that Rangers will lose the case by taking the club into administration PRIOR to the case being decided should tell you something. I don't care what anyone thinks..........Craig Whyte's plan was ALWAYS to liquidate Rangers then start as a debt free Newco and sell for a profit. Craig (I've got previous with HMRC) Whyte took the club into admin not for historical debts rather for the £9million accrued in the current tax year. He obviously thought that he could negotiate a payment plan and it kinda went like this. Whyte. Hello HMRC, I can't pay it all but lets do a deal? HMRC, (muffled behind the receiver, "Its yon Craig, bumped us repeatedly, Whyte) "Whats he want?" "Another deal." F*&k off this aint staying on my desk tell him to submit figures and we will refer it. Whyte, I'll get my people on it. HMRC, Whytes figures are in "refer it quick!!" I aint getting caught with this on my desk!! Higher Up HMRC. Whyte, Craig Whyte? He who nearly cost me my promotion with those other murky dealings? Deal? f*&K off!! (File an admin application) Whyte. I'll face them down by filing a NIA Higher Up HMRC, Oh really. (chortle chortle). HMRC must have been progressing the admin before Whyte filed as given the slow nature of the department there is no way they worked outwith hours to get it in court at the same time as Whytes application. As a business, it was heavily indebted but not bust. (pending crystallisation of the big tax case). What tipped it (at the time of admin) over was it's inability to pay current years fiscal liabilities, caused in no small part by CL exit. (I remember thinking at the time that it would kill them) Murray used to make up such shortfalls but since Whyte was effectively, due to the Ticketus deal, in negative finances from day one he couldn't pay it from his own reserves and given his history/press at the time was unable to borrow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 http://www.contractoruk.com/ebt/ Tell it to hmrc And who cares ...champs Mibbie they could do an Amazon or Tesco and move the registered office offshore and just fly in once a week to play the games? Wages would be paid outside the UK and no need for an EBT!! (I think this is why Lewis Hamilton moved abroad) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green&White Zebra Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Your "fact" is really your own interpretation of the situation. I don't pretend to know everything about the situation but if Whyte always wanted to liquidate why didn't he just go for a pre-pack rather than taking the club into admin? Not usually one to sound off about oneself, but I started a thread on the OF forum in the autumn suggesting that Whyte was planning admin all along. The way they were spending money suggested that it was a deliberate crash. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Craig (I've got previous with HMRC) Whyte took the club into admin not for historical debts rather for the £9million accrued in the current tax year. He obviously thought that he could negotiate a payment plan and it kinda went like this. Whyte. Hello HMRC, I can't pay it all but lets do a deal? HMRC, (muffled behind the receiver, "Its yon Craig, bumped us repeatedly, Whyte) "Whats he want?" "Another deal." F*&k off this aint staying on my desk tell him to submit figures and we will refer it. Whyte, I'll get my people on it. HMRC, Whytes figures are in "refer it quick!!" I aint getting caught with this on my desk!! Higher Up HMRC. Whyte, Craig Whyte? He who nearly cost me my promotion with those other murky dealings? Deal? f*&K off!! (File an admin application) Whyte. I'll face them down by filing a NIA Higher Up HMRC, Oh really. (chortle chortle). HMRC must have been progressing the admin before Whyte filed as given the slow nature of the department there is no way they worked outwith hours to get it in court at the same time as Whytes application. As a business, it was heavily indebted but not bust. (pending crystallisation of the big tax case). What tipped it (at the time of admin) over was it's inability to pay current years fiscal liabilities, caused in no small part by CL exit. (I remember thinking at the time that it would kill them) Murray used to make up such shortfalls but since Whyte was effectively, due to the Ticketus deal, in negative finances from day one he couldn't pay it from his own reserves and given his history/press at the time was unable to borrow. Correct so why would he throw good money after bad ? Your as well hung for a sheep as a lamb as they say. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) Not usually one to sound off about oneself, but I started a thread on the OF forum in the autumn suggesting that Whyte was planning admin all along. The way they were spending money suggested that it was a deliberate crash. I even raised the question "do you think he'll take them into administration BEFORE the big tax case result?" Edited April 22, 2012 by sjc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green&White Zebra Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I think Whyte's plan was very simple. Liquidate the club. Sell Ibrox to Ticketus and walk away with a few million. Newco was always going to be left to someone else, and I doubt if he cared. I know he'd really be selling Ibrox to a consortium like the Blue Knights, but Ticketus would be the most likely body to offer leverage. This may indeed be what happens, but it's all down to awaiting the FTT verdict to start the countdown to liquidation. The fact that it's carrying on for so long suggests that there's a strong likelihood of there not being a league team called Rangers next season (outside of Berwick). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 http://www.contractoruk.com/ebt/ Tell it to hmrc And who cares ...champs This is probably the most important part of that link- Litigation is expensive and HMRC has relatively deep pockets. HMRC has enjoyed considerable success when it takes disputes to the Tax Tribunal and/or Courts for determination. Of course HMRC only takes cases where it is confident of a win!HMRC has reported reached settlements with several large banks that used EBTs to remunerate senior employees. A scheme operated by a leading investment company – Aberdeen Asset Management – was HMRC's most recent success before a Tax Tribunal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Correct so why would he throw good money after bad ? Your as well hung for a sheep as a lamb as they say. I don't think he realised just what a long memory HMRC had. He obviously thought he could bluster through and with CL money last till the big tax case came through, let's not forget this was not a balance sheet insolvency and the company was not insolvent when Whyte bought it. He thought he could slash costs and reap the 67 million net worth of the company (at last accounts). Unfortunatley for this you need working capital and he had none (especially after the CL exit) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) I don't think he realised just what a long memory HMRC had. He obviously thought he could bluster through and with CL money last till the big tax case came through, let's not forget this was not a balance sheet insolvency and the company was not insolvent when Whyte bought it. He thought he could slash costs and reap the 67 million net worth of the company (at last accounts). Unfortunatley for this you need working capital and he had none (especially after the CL exit) really ? if not then it was sailing very close to the wind.............why eles would various people (Bain included) "ring fence" funds via a Court order who stated they were insolvent ? Edit to add: Remember the big tax case result was initially due in October/November. Edited April 22, 2012 by sjc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Mibbie it's close as Whyte is back in the country and was pictured in the champagne bar at the Balmoral hotel the other day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 really ? if not then it was sailing very close to the wind.............why eles would various people (Bain included) "ring fence" funds via a Court order who stated they were insolvent ? Rangers' former chief executive Martin Bain has had almost half a million pounds of the club's assets frozen after a judge agreed there was "real and substantial risk of insolvency". Mr Bain is pursuing a £1.3m damages claim against his ex-employer at the Court of Session in Edinburgh. Judge Lord Hodge granted a warrant which would ring-fence £480,000 of the Ibrox club's assets. He said there was risk of insolvency if the HMRC tax case goes against Rangers. Lord Hodge said that in reaching that view he was concerned with the degree of possibility and "not actuality or even probability of insolvency". Mr Bain raised his damages claim alleging breach of contract following the takeover at Rangers FC by venture capitalist Craig Whyte from former owner Sir David Murray. Lord Hodge said he was not persuaded on the material before him that Rangers were presently insolvent "either practically or absolutely". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.