Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Chuckinho]

So Rangers have been doing sometihing (EBT) which HMRC has never liked and has decided with its deep pockets to clamp down on and will probably win.

But we will prboably see a newco Rangers team next year in the SPL with wide grins on their younger faces and denail of wrongdoing. This type of wiping the slate clean after overspending to then do it again and again should be illegal and the SFA is well within their rights but unlikely to punish them for it which is what most folk here want otherwise we'll all go off and follow Cambuslang, Abbey Vale, Banks O'Dee or some other junior team because they have so little money and haven't lost sight of what the game is about. We follow a team and pay to watch them play, they get some money perhaps in the SPL for TV but if noone gets the TV subscriptioin then they have no money to pay the clubs with. But Scottish Football is bigger than some diddy TV deal if we let it be so.

[sjc]

fair enough..........they certainly are now though !

[sjc]

So Rangers have been doing sometihing (EBT) which HMRC has never liked and has decided with its deep pockets to clamp down on and will probably win.

But we will prboably see a newco Rangers team next year in the SPL with wide grins on their younger faces and denail of wrongdoing. This type of wiping the slate clean after overspending to then do it again and again should be illegal and the SFA is well within their rights but unlikely to punish them for it which is what most folk here want otherwise we'll all go off and follow Cambuslang, Abbey Vale, Banks O'Dee or some other junior team because they have so little money and haven't lost sight of what the game is about. We follow a team and pay to watch them play, they get some money perhaps in the SPL for TV but if noone gets the TV subscriptioin then they have no money to pay the clubs with. But Scottish Football is bigger than some diddy TV deal if we let it be so.

not according to most of our spineless Chairmen its not !

[AND180Y]

fair enough..........they certainly are now though !

That they are and all the monies that were in their bank awaiting disbursment to the small creditors has been pissed in the wind by the admins.

As I say, I don't think it was ever about Rangers and debt, it was about HMRC and Whyte.

[sjc]

That they are and all the monies that were in their bank awaiting disbursment to the small creditors has been pissed in the wind by the admins.

As I say, I don't think it was ever about Rangers and debt, it was about HMRC and Whyte.

I agree with that........with the administration nothing more than "posturing" to be seen to be "trying" to save the club in its current form.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

The loans weren't from the club. They were from a trust.

Can't say I'm bothered about which particular individuals used EBTs. It was the club's and Murray Group's scheme and it seems to have been pretty common practice at the club.

It's finally happened - you've managed to call yourself a liar in your own post. And common practice it must have been, because not ONE former or current employee of the club has come out and said they DIDN'T have one of these. OK, they haven't been asked the question, but in their position I'd be pretty quick to establish some distance from any perceived wrongdoing.....

So, Sally, Wattie, Smudger, all those innocent victims of "somebody"'s wrongdoing - how was your pay made up? One cheque or two? And if you received one of these "loans", why not, oh I dunno, consider paying it back to help save the club you claim to love? Or would you rather continue to accept the sacrifices of your deluded fans who can ill-afford the expense of their tiny contributions which, let's be honest, won't matter a damn in the long run?

Just die, for God's sake.

KTID

[Tenpot]

It's finally happened - you've managed to call yourself a liar in your own post. And common practice it must have been, because not ONE former or current employee of the club has come out and said they DIDN'T have one of these. OK, they haven't been asked the question, but in their position I'd be pretty quick to establish some distance from any perceived wrongdoing.....

So, Sally, Wattie, Smudger, all those innocent victims of "somebody"'s wrongdoing - how was your pay made up? One cheque or two? And if you received one of these "loans", why not, oh I dunno, consider paying it back to help save the club you claim to love? Or would you rather continue to accept the sacrifices of your deluded fans who can ill-afford the expense of their tiny contributions which, let's be honest, won't matter a damn in the long run?

Just die, for God's sake.

KTID

A yorkshireman trying to give financial advice , this is not going to be good

[WhiteRoseKillie]

A yorkshireman trying to give financial advice , this is not going to be good

Yorkshireman? Where?

KTID

[Tenpot]

Yorkshireman? Where?

KTID

[Bearwithme]

It's finally happened - you've managed to call yourself a liar in your own post. And common practice it must have been, because not ONE former or current employee of the club has come out and said they DIDN'T have one of these. OK, they haven't been asked the question, but in their position I'd be pretty quick to establish some distance from any perceived wrongdoing.....

So, Sally, Wattie, Smudger, all those innocent victims of "somebody"'s wrongdoing - how was your pay made up? One cheque or two? And if you received one of these "loans", why not, oh I dunno, consider paying it back to help save the club you claim to love? Or would you rather continue to accept the sacrifices of your deluded fans who can ill-afford the expense of their tiny contributions which, let's be honest, won't matter a damn in the long run?

Just die, for God's sake.

KTID

It was actually Murray Group who set up the trust. The trust made the loans. So the loans are not repayable to Rangers (or Murray Group). The loans are repayable to the trust, who made them. It's not that difficult.

[welshbairn]

Some loon on Rangersmedia has posted this:

TBK have won the race to take over Rangers, and will be announced as Preferred Bidders tomorrow.

Final details have been ironed out over the weekend and agreed with D&P.

Ticketus are involved, but Kennedy is not, at this stage anyway.

The BK will now proceed with D&P to agree a CVA with creditors before the deadlines for further footballing sanctions to be imposed.

Whytes shareholding to be secured In exchange for him not being sued for his PG by Ticketus.

CVA likely to agreed as talks already taken place between D&P and HMRC and HMRC are not going to be too difficult to deal with, and as they will have the major say, this will see the CVA go through.

The club will NOT be liquidated!

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=217616&st=0

Edited April 22, 2012 by welshbairn

[Gaz FFC]

It's finally happened - you've managed to call yourself a liar in your own post. And common practice it must have been, because not ONE former or current employee of the club has come out and said they DIDN'T have one of these. OK, they haven't been asked the question, but in their position I'd be pretty quick to establish some distance from any perceived wrongdoing.....

So, Sally, Wattie, Smudger, all those innocent victims of "somebody"'s wrongdoing - how was your pay made up? One cheque or two? And if you received one of these "loans", why not, oh I dunno, consider paying it back to help save the club you claim to love? Or would you rather continue to accept the sacrifices of your deluded fans who can ill-afford the expense of their tiny contributions which, let's be honest, won't matter a damn in the long run?

Just die, for God's sake.

KTID

Are you trying to suggest that people were playing for and managing Rangers for big money and not that they loved the club?

I have been lied to by the media

[WhiteRoseKillie]

It was actually Murray Group who set up the trust. The trust made the loans. So the loans are not repayable to Rangers (or Murray Group). The loans are repayable to the trust, who made them. It's not that difficult.

Quoting your earlier post:

The loans weren't from the club. They were from a trust.

Can't say I'm bothered about which particular individuals used EBTs. It was the club's and Murray Group's scheme and it seems to have been pretty common practice at the club.

So it was the club's scheme (or the club was at least involved), but the loans weren't from the club? You really are messing with your own head here. Let me help:

1. Rangers used EBTs as a way of paying employees for many years. This may or may not be illegal.

2. Many of the players they have registered this way wouldn't have gone to ibrox if their remuneration (look it up) had been less.

3. Not only players were paid this way - certainly Martin Bain was in receipt of funds in this manner.

4. Even the thickest player must have realised that most employees at most companies only get paid from one source. Certainly senior managers at ANY company would be aware of the methods of payment, both to employees and to themselves.

5. While no-one has asked the awkward question of any of your "legends" (including a knight of the realm (like fred goodwin)), surely the best PR they could gain would be from Sally and other rangers "greats" to categorically state they did not participate in this scheme. Alternatively, to say "Yes, I got one of these 'loans', and in the club's hour of need I am repaying it in full".

6. Whatever spin rangers, their media pals and their supporters put on it, HMRC clearly believe that rangers have not paid the requisite amount of tax for a number of years. I would be surprised if these guys were totally ignorant when it comes to tax matters. Oh, and sorry to piss on your chips, but rangers traditions and history don't matter to HMRC - these lads just want what's due.

Summing up, your club has been run dishonestly for decades. They are liars, cheats, bigots, and tacit acceptors of sectarian hatred (a characteristic they share with their Ugly Sisters across the city). They benefited (and continue to benefit) from a supine media and cronyism at the highest level of the Scottish game, and have profited, both in sporting and financial terms, to the detriment of the Scottish game and Scotland's international image as a Nation. They deserve to die.

Had Kilmarnock or any other club behaved like this, I would expect to see them expelled from the Scottish game immediately, and rightly so. Why should anyone wish to preserve a club which has repeatedly shown its disdain for the country which sustained it, to the extent of repeatedly declaring their intention to leave? They didn't want Scotland. Well, Scotland doesn't want them!

KTID

[Bearwithme]

Quoting your earlier post:

The loans weren't from the club. They were from a trust.

Can't say I'm bothered about which particular individuals used EBTs. It was the club's and Murray Group's scheme and it seems to have been pretty common practice at the club.

So it was the club's scheme (or the club was at least involved), but the loans weren't from the club? You really are messing with your own head here. Let me help:

1. Rangers used EBTs as a way of paying employees for many years. This may or may not be illegal.

2. Many of the players they have registered this way wouldn't have gone to ibrox if their remuneration (look it up) had been less.

3. Not only players were paid this way - certainly Martin Bain was in receipt of funds in this manner.

4. Even the thickest player must have realised that most employees at most companies only get paid from one source. Certainly senior managers at ANY company would be aware of the methods of payment, both to employees and to themselves.

5. While no-one has asked the awkward question of any of your "legends" (including a knight of the realm (like fred goodwin)), surely the best PR they could gain would be from Sally and other rangers "greats" to categorically state they did not participate in this scheme. Alternatively, to say "Yes, I got one of these 'loans', and in the club's hour of need I am repaying it in full".

6. Whatever spin rangers, their media pals and their supporters put on it, HMRC clearly believe that rangers have not paid the requisite amount of tax for a number of years. I would be surprised if these guys were totally ignorant when it comes to tax matters. Oh, and sorry to piss on your chips, but rangers traditions and history don't matter to HMRC - these lads just want what's due.

Summing up, your club has been run dishonestly for decades. They are liars, cheats, bigots, and tacit acceptors of sectarian hatred (a characteristic they share with their Ugly Sisters across the city). They benefited (and continue to benefit) from a supine media and cronyism at the highest level of the Scottish game, and have profited, both in sporting and financial terms, to the detriment of the Scottish game and Scotland's international image as a Nation. They deserve to die.

Had Kilmarnock or any other club behaved like this, I would expect to see them expelled from the Scottish game immediately, and rightly so. Why should anyone wish to preserve a club which has repeatedly shown its disdain for the country which sustained it, to the extent of repeatedly declaring their intention to leave? They didn't want Scotland. Well, Scotland doesn't want them!

KTID

It would be repaid to the trust then.

Calm your hysteria. It was a tax planning scheme. Innumerable companies, firms and individuals use tactics to reduce their tax bills. Tax planning schemes are designed to stay within the law - that's the whole point of them: to reduce tax safely, not to incur a huge tax bill at a later date. If we made a mess of it we'll face very serious consequences.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Bearwithme

[THE KING]

It was actually Murray Group who set up the trust. The trust made the loans. So the loans are not repayable to Rangers (or Murray Group). The loans are repayable to the trust, who made them. It's not that difficult.

You're right it's easy high earners at ibrox took a fraction of their wages from the club and the majority of them in "loans" from a company which has nothing to do with rangers...why didn't you say so,,,,nothing to worry about then..

[WeeHectorPar]

It was actually Murray Group who set up the trust. The trust made the loans. So the loans are not repayable to Rangers (or Murray Group). The loans are repayable to the trust, who made them. It's not that difficult.

Do you have to keep posting the same thing over and over and over again? I think we got the message. However the money was paid into the trust by someone and if HMRC are chasing Rangers for back tax then that means the money was paid into the trust by Rangers F C.

[SFLKING]

sorted

Like how you kept the not really emoticon in there.

[barrysnotter]

That they are and all the monies that were in their bank awaiting disbursment to the small creditors has been pissed in the wind by the admins.

As I say, I don't think it was ever about Rangers and debt, it was about HMRC and Whyte.

If you believe that you're a bigger mug than I originally thought. Craig Whyte has run up debts owed to HMRC of around £15M, whilst the previous regime has potential debts of £75M. Looking at the figures, and forgetting the media hysteria and spin, Whyte is relatively insignificant. Even without the Whyte saga, it is hard to see a way in which The Rangers could have avoided liquidation should they lose the FTT (which I'm confident they will).

[WhiteRoseKillie]

It would be repaid to the trust then.

Calm your hysteria. It was a tax planning scheme. Innumerable companies, firms and individuals use tactics to reduce their tax bills. Tax planning schemes are designed to stay within the law - that's the whole point of them: to reduce tax safely, not to incur a huge tax bill at a later date. If we made a mess of it we'll face very serious consequences.

Ermm, no hysteria over here.

I know EBTs are a tax planning device.

I know many companies use them.

I know HMRC believe they were misused, and are therefore about to rip your club a new one.

Also:

I know that no current or former rangers employee has stated that they were not beneficiaries of this "planning".

I know that rangers are appealing for help from their support, the vast majority of whom can ill-afford to bail them out in these economic times.

I know that these "planning devices" are theoretically loans.

I know that no current or former employee of rangers has made any public declaration of willingness to repay their "loan".

I know that rangers publicly stated they wanted to leave Scottish football to play in an English league.

I know that since rangers went into administration, four employees have left the payroll. They would need to be on 250k/month each to cover Duff & Duffer's costs, before any other savings were made. No such savings have become apparent.

I know that two players have left rangers, NINE WEEKS into the administration process. Portsmouth got rid of nine within five days.

I know that rangers are so financially bereft that they have NO credit credibility() within the Scottish game.

I know that rangers are now desperate to survive.

I know that the vast majority of Scottish fans want them to die.

KTID

Edited April 22, 2012 by WhiteRoseKillie

[~~~]

David Murray was Rangers at the time, please dont try and shift the blame from the club and its fans.

You are all equally as guilty as any one individual for doing f**k all over the years but blame everyone else.