Co.Down Hibee Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Rangers could be screwed over this. They renegotiated all the players deals when they took wage cuts to include release clauses that were very favourable to the players so expect a lot of them to move on for little money. The transfer embargo is a very effective punishment in that regard and it is one punishment even a newco can't get out of. If a lot of first team players leave then they might be in trouble. I personally don't see it as a big problem for Rangers, some players will stay on and they can still get under 18s in on loan so if they can work a few deals then they certainly shouldn't be getting relegated next season. Some players will not get anywhere near the amount they earn at Rangers, is Steven Whittaker getting £25K per week at any other club? Davis and Naismith are injured and also are on big wages. We may see most of the current Rangers team return for next season despite the contract clauses, whether they are forced to move on because of those large wages only time will tell. The only ones I can see with a stab at the EPL would be Naismith and McSheger,possibly Davis ,the rest Championship,MLS etc..having said that Maloney is doing well with Wigan,who would have thought that your right though none of these guys will get anything like they have got at Rangers. Possibly this explains the problem they have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 The Chattanooga perspective.. "They're anti catholic but they're not racists" My link The first comment Gordon Heaton 7 hours ago +7 Share | Flag Good report but Rangers are not anti-catholic, they are anti-republican and loyal to the monarchy and the UK. Rangers are an inclusive and progressive club and look forward to welcoming even more Americans too our global family. Thats an exclusive Alex Thomson would be proud of! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray_of_licht Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 On the subject of TUPE, and i'm not sure anyone knows really how it is appied in this situation, with the union saying they think the contracts wont transfer over giving the players freedom to move on and the administrators saying the contracts do transfer over what will happen if this has to go to a judge to make a decision and this goes on after the start of the season season kicks off and he then says it was a freedom of contract situation would the rangers be done again for fielding unregisterd players and docked points again? this could be an endless cycle of fun, pre-season may not be as boring as usual Every player would move from the old company to the newco there's no argument with that. The problem is that Wishart says as employees being TUPE'd they can refuse to switch if they so choose. It would appear D&P are trying to say they're assets and have no choice. TUPE regulation 4 (7) states: "[the regulations] shall not operate to transfer the contract of employment and the rights, powers, duties and liabilities under or in connection with it of an employee who informs the transferor or the transferee that he objects to becoming employed by the transferee." I seem to recall Wishart also saying that football regulations might fly in the face of that but the law of the land should trump whatever the football authorities say. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 "They're anti catholic but they're not racists" My link A BBC journalist was quoted as saying that in the article - I believe he's not a Scottish based one. Interesting to see how others see Rangers eh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutton34 Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 No, no. I hate the whole Rangers scam, David Murray, Bain, McLellend etc. Chancers, cowboys,cheats.... Would love to see them not just be liquidated but totally eliminated.... If only to reduce this sort of thing happening (from the Sun) A CRAZED thug bit off part of a man's ear in a pub brawl — then picked it up off the floor and ATE it. The terrifying attack on victim Graeme Aitken, 39, in front of horrified staff was caught on CCTV. Police are now hunting the brute after viewing shock footage of the gruesome assault at Whispers Bar in Tranent, East Lothian. Publican Elliot Morgan said: "The footage we have is of an extremely good quality and you can see the guy pick up the bit of ear and put it in his mouth. "He definitely didn't spit it out. He swallowed it." Mr Aitken was rushed to hospital for reconstructive surgery after the top of his right ear was severed in Sunday's attack but he has been left permanently disfigured. Mr Morgan said: "We were quiet. Everyone steers clear of the pubs in Tranent on Old Firm days as there's always trouble. But we are where we are. I would put the chances of a newco with Miller at less than 50%, but if he does succeed I think he would be a breath of fresh air as he would come with a business head on. Probably he has a 5 year plan to get it sorted and in a decent state to then sell it on, He must have an exit strategy. In fact not that different from Fergus McCann at Celtic. So a guys ear was munched in a pub called Whispers, you couldn't make it up 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Every player would move from the old company to the newco there's no argument with that. The problem is that Wishart says as employees being TUPE'd they can refuse to switch if they so choose. It would appear D&P are trying to say they're assets and have no choice. TUPE regulation 4 (7) states: "[the regulations] shall not operate to transfer the contract of employment and the rights, powers, duties and liabilities under or in connection with it of an employee who informs the transferor or the transferee that he objects to becoming employed by the transferee." I seem to recall Wishart also saying that football regulations might fly in the face of that but the law of the land should trump whatever the football authorities say. Does this then come back to what I said earlier - the players football registration can be transferred as an asset, but their contract(s) of employment fall under TUPE? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pansypotterthedirtyrotter Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 But isnt that exactly what theyre planning to do with the other "assets" anyway? it's rotten to the core, but AFAIK nobody has came forward and offered to buy any of the big assets except windy miller and his £11m. but i think west brom made a £2m bid for naismith and it was knocked back, if so dumb n dumber will get fooked for that. HMRC must put a block on the asset stripping going on at greyskull or it allows every team in the u.k. to go down the same road with impunity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBairn Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 But isnt that exactly what theyre planning to do with the other "assets" anyway? How can they do this with Murray Park and Ibrox (for example) as surely these would need to be sold of to pay creditors? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray_of_licht Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Does this then come back to what I said earlier - the players football registration can be transferred as an asset, but their contract(s) of employment fall under TUPE? Pretty much. It's going to be fun picking the bones out of this one. BM wants it done and dusted for the 13th? I'm sceptical. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin M Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 How can they do this with Murray Park and Ibrox (for example) as surely these would need to be sold of to pay creditors? This is them being sold - Big Mad Bill is paying 11.2 million squid for all the nice bits, and made up a story about merging with the old company after a CVA* to preserve the history so that the fans buy it and don't revolt. (That's a CVA with 11 million quid, minus whatever the administrators are due, minus any secured creditor payouts.... it's not even clear if there will be ANY money by the time a CVA is being passed). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 it's rotten to the core, but AFAIK nobody has came forward and offered to buy any of the big assets except windy miller and his £11m. but i think west brom made a £2m bid for naismith and it was knocked back, if so dumb n dumber will get fooked for that. HMRC must put a block on the asset stripping going on at greyskull or it allows every team in the u.k. to go down the same road with impunity. Seeing as HMRC are a basket case of an organisation, riddled with incompetence and they generally move with all the speed of a Brontosaurus I wouldn't get my hopes up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 it's rotten to the core, but AFAIK nobody has came forward and offered to buy any of the big assets except windy miller and his £11m. but i think west brom made a £2m bid for naismith and it was knocked back, if so dumb n dumber will get fooked for that. HMRC must put a block on the asset stripping going on at greyskull or it allows every team in the u.k. to go down the same road with impunity. So what powers do the creditors have? Do they have to vote on the asset sale, as they do for a CVA? Can individual creditors object? If so, how easy is it to do? How can they do this with Murray Park and Ibrox (for example) as surely these would need to be sold of to pay creditors? They have been - to Miller for £11m Pretty much. It's going to be fun picking the bones out of this one. BM wants it done and dusted for the 13th? I'm sceptical. Ouch, what a mess that could be. I can just imagine the frothing at the mouth on RM when a player decides they want to leave - "aye bu we goat theyr registration. They canna play fur naeone else. F*ck the f****n b*****d" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drooper Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 (edited) They have been - to Miller for £11m No they haven't. Miller hasn't paid out a single dime as yet. Edited May 4, 2012 by Drooper 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 (edited) Alan Brazil was spouting utter nonsense thismorning and shot down a scouser who suggested scottish football would survive withoutrangers and the sky money. anyway the reporter who had called in suggested ifrangers get away with this newco plan then why cant everyone do the same? thisis a very dangerous road to go down if the SFA SPL allow this takeover tohappen. i recall last year dunfermline created a newco. It wasn't a reporter, it was blue bigot mouthpiece Keith Jackson. I thankfully just caught a bit of this morning's propaganda but did hear the b*****d dramatically pronounce..The Old Firm IS Scottish football. Naturally Alky Brazil immediately agreed. Jackson did mention the everyone else eg Dundee Utd bit but naturally failed to mention the rules would immediately changed after Rangers are saved to prevent anyone else doing it too. The Scouser was excellent. God knows how he got through to speak on air. Brazil didn't have a clue and couldn't get rid of him quickly enough. Edited May 4, 2012 by 7-2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipster Dufus Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 No they haven't. Miller hasn't paid a single dime out as yet. ..or a single red (handed) cent. Out of interest, does anyone have the ability to make up a kinda count-up clock showing the money that Duff & Phelps are owed with each passing day? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 If D&P were officially appointed by the courts, why has someone from those that appointed them not taken them to task for repeatedly lying when making statements? No matter what we think they are up to behind the scenes there is no avoiding misleading public statements should they indeed be totally false. Sure action must be taken? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 So what powers do the creditors have? Do they have to vote on the asset sale, as they do for a CVA? Can individual creditors object? If so, how easy is it to do? They have been - to Miller for £11m They will be given the right to accept of block the CVA on Rangers FC plc, however if 75% of the creditors say yes then that is that. It's a difficult position for the Creditors as in simple terms Bill Miller will have transferred all the worthwhile assets (Ibrox, MP, Land, Staff, Goodwill) into the Hive Down Company (Rangers 2012?) hence no asset sale as all that will be left in the old Company will be a load of red coloured balance sheets which he will then attempt to deliver a CVA on. In simple terms, the creditors have a strong chance of getting absolutely fucked. It may come down to the situation of get something or get nothing. Meanwhile the football team will carry on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 No they haven't. Miller hasn't paid out a single dime as yet. Sorry, no, you're right. I was talking future tense ... possibly With all this talk of TUPE and newcos etc I think we've lost sight of what could be the most likely outcome of all. Miller may yet, simply, walk away 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 (edited) They will be given the right to accept of block the CVA on Rangers FC plc, however if 75% of the creditors say yes then that is that. It's a difficult position for the Creditors as in simple terms Bill Miller will have transferred all the worthwhile assets (Ibrox, MP, Land, Staff, Goodwill) into the Hive Down Company (Rangers 2012?) hence no asset sale as all that will be left in the old Company will be a load of red coloured balance sheets which he will then attempt to deliver a CVA on. In simple terms, the creditors have a strong chance of getting absolutely fucked. It may come down to the situation of get something or get nothing. Meanwhile the football team will carry on. So, theres nothing the creditors can do about the sale of assets, prior to the CVA? Im thought I read somewhere it needed there approval edited to add - no, seems I was wrong. Edited May 4, 2012 by Mr X 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pansypotterthedirtyrotter Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 So what powers do the creditors have? Do they have to vote on the asset sale, as they do for a CVA? Can individual creditors object? If so, how easy is it to do? At least 75% of the companies creditors must agree to the proposed CVA, once agreed, the CVA proposal is approved and the CVA becomes legally binding. All interest and further charges are then frozen. A comparison must be seen to be in the creditors best interests, compared to 'winding up' where the companies assets would be sold at auction, so the total amount offered in the CVA proposal over 5 years must be worth more to the creditors than forced sale of goods at auction, 'winding up' (basically, total up the companies assets at 20p in the pound and make sure the offer to the creditors is slightly more). so there you go, dumb n dumber think HMRC and ticketus are going to accept this pittance and let windy miller sail away with the assets whenn the could be sold for more at auction. the cooncil should buy greyskull and turn it into a massive landfill site, think how much shite you coul fit in there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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