Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Drooper]

It's a Blue Vermin shagfest on Cocksport.

Nearly threw up in my Cab.

FUCKEM !

What did you expect, FFS?

[shull]

I'm sure the listed part of Shitbrox Park will, if need be, vanish by courtesy of a big and bad burny fire.

[grumswall]

I've an idea. It will go against the grain of the (legitimate) anti-gers sentiment here, but, why don't we do a deal with the buns. Rangers buy the debts of all other SPL clubs, then they put through their CVA and we all get to start from a clean slate, all fair and square and even.

... and if, for some reason they don't get the CVA through, well .... *shrugs* thems the breaks.

with what?

[7-2]

It's a Blue Vermin shagfest on Cocksport.

Nearly threw up in my Cab.

FUCKEM !

It's been TalkSucculentLamb throughout this whole charade.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

As for Mr Lawwell's vote, he is simply an employee and frontperson for the board. He will do as he is instructed.

As you've presumably got a better working knowledge of the mechanisms of power at Parkhead maybe you can enlighten us

If, as you say, Lawell is a mere frontperson then how much attention should we pay to any of his public pronouncements?

And who actually does have the most clout when it comes to running Celtic. Does Dermot Desmond still hold the majority of shares? Would Lawell say things without running it past Desmond?

Celtic's share price dipped dramatically on February 13th but is was back to roughly where it was a week later. Even then the volumne traded that week was very small, You have to go back to last season to actually see many shares changing hands.

This suggests that the people owning Celtic don't think that the Rangers fiasco is going to have a negative, or indeed positive, impact..

[Granny Danger]

The first part of your post is something I've read a few time and I guess this is what Green is hoping might happen. On the other hand, you may have read HMRC's own guidance on acceptance of CVAs and there are couple of things in particular which would be major stumbling blocks to this being agreed with HMRC:

1. They cannot accept a CVA if there is evidence of some creditors being favoured over others. This would mean that Hearts, Rapid Vienna et al would also need to accept 5p in the pound or whatever it turns out to be (the law is different in England where football debts are excluded so can be favoured I believe)- cue UEFA involvement if this happens.

2. They cannot accept a CVA if there is evidence of previous willful wrongdoing (eg. knowingly withholding tax payments). This is a bit more tricky as much of this was down to the current owner and with a new owner there could be an argument that this is being addressed. however, given that the SPL found that the club itself was guilty and others in the club had knowledge of what was going on, this may be difficult to swing. Tomorrow will clarify. I can see the HMRC reading the SPL and SFA judgements very closely.

The other issue is that the HMRC may consider the "bigger picture" and decide that taking the risk of getting less under liquidation is much better in the long run as it will send out a powerful message to the rest of football in the UK. From an honest taxpayers viewpoint, I sincerely hope that this is what they do as what Green & Co seem to be trying to do is morally corrupt if nothing else and it truly hacks me off the way some already wealthy people seem to spend a heck of alot of effort to avoid paying taxes to the detriment of UK plc (ie. all of us). If they think they pay too much tax in the U, then f*ck off somewhere else.

I feel sorry for the genuine Rangers fans in all of this. There's one thing that's certain- Green & Co are in this to make money, not because they want to own Rangers FC per se.

Although I feel sorry for the genuine fans, I certainly don't feel sorry for Rangers FC Limited (or whatever the registered name is) as they have been as corrupt as f*ck and deserve what's coming to them. All will become clear in due course.....

If I were a betting man, I'd say liquidation, new club and re-application to the league (which they will get). Whether that's the SPL or SFL remains to be seen. A few weeks ago, I'd have said it was odds on that it would be the SPL, but I sense a ever bigger growing groundswell of opinion (amongst not just most fans who have always been against direct entry to the SPL, but also alot of the media and also other clubs themselves who seem to be starting slowly to break rank and voice their opinions (eg. Dunfermline, Hibs)). If the SFA appeal upholds the original punishments tomorrow, we may see one or two more.

That is very well considered and well argued post. I probably agree with every word of it (even the bit about genuine Rangers fans ). Hard to add anything to it.

[Drooper]

As for Mr Lawwell's vote, he is simply an employee and frontbottom for the board. He will do as he is instructed.

Fixed.

[thelegendthatis]

Apparently the reason why a CVA will likely be agreed is because un the CVA HMRC, Ticketus and everyone else will get something, if the club is liquidated then Whyte gets first dibs on 18million quid, then whats left after that is divided up amongst the creditors

Now considering that the players can supposedly walk for nothing in a liquidation scenario, that simply leaves Ibrox and Murray Park as sole Rangers Football Club Assets, which you most likely not get much for simply because MP can't be used for housing etc and Ibrox has a listed front part and would take significant finance to develop into something else.

Its to do with Whyte's floating charge that he has, or something like that

I havent a fecking clue and im just sitting back waiting for it to end one way or another, but above is the theory of why a CVA is quite a possibility

Would preferred it if you had started with your last sentence.

That way it would have saved me money going into the sweary box.

[Gaspode]

Even before the transfer embargo is possibly lifted Rangers are lining up a new signing even though they are still in administration, truly sickening when you consider the millions they owe to a lot of people.

Just hope this panel tomorrow don't bow to pressure from the blue scum and keep this transfer embargo on Rangers Tax dodging b'stards.

Rino Gattuso has revealed he held talks with the new Rangers hierarchy at the weekend over a return to Ibrox after the 34-year-old ended 13 years with AC Milan on Sunday.

[Victor E Sheep]

with what?

An IOU for £1 perhaps.

Maybe transfer debt to Rangers instead of buy would have been more appropriate. It's the only way I can see me being happy about them surviving.

[Granny Danger]

Celtic are a PLC. Anything other than a yes vote would be contrary to the wishes of the shareholders. I don't think it's as cut and dried as you think, and if it was, frankly Lol would have said so in his nothing interview the other week

That is a ridiculous statement on two levels. Firstly, you make the assumption that the shareholders would want a 'Yes' vote. Your knowledge of the thinking of the Celtic shareholders is probably the same as mine - in other words non existent; so your views are purely speculative.

Secondly, the Celtic board would only need to show that the decision that they took was in the best interests of the club. Whether they vote Yes or No I am sure they would be able to present a credible arguement to support their decision.

[MattWPBS]

I could see the point if it was a few million they only owed but my GOD tens and tens of millions,I really don't see the HMRC agreeing to literally pennies in the pound.

HMRC will probably be concerned letting them off then a whole lot of indebted British football clubs trying the same fiddle by screwing them over then selling the club on.All other debt ridden clubs would then say but you let Rangers off wi pennies in the pound so we will offer the same.

I do think there will be a Rangers of sorts but this Rangers will liquidated for sure as a deterrent to other debt ridden clubs.

Exactly. A CVA of £8.5m might be the best return in this case, but there's the moral hazard weighing against accepting it. If they put Rangers to the wall, it sends one hell of a message to other clubs. Look at it that way, and Rangers' status as a 'Scottish institution' becomes an argument in favour of doing them. "We'll take a club of Rangers stature to the wall, do you think it's worth trying to play hardball when you're in nPower League 1?"

[makepeace]

ive not been on this for a couple of days. The last time i was on the consensus was that rangers are fucked, greene is an asset stripper. but now it seems the consensus is that rangers are gonna get away with all this. whats changed??

[double0pie]

ive not been on this for a couple of days. The last time i was on the consensus was that rangers are fucked, greene is an asset stripper. but now it seems the consensus is that rangers are gonna get away with all this. whats changed??

A few more deluded Bears started posting.

[Kyle]

ive not been on this for a couple of days. The last time i was on the consensus was that rangers are fucked, greene is an asset stripper. but now it seems the consensus is that rangers are gonna get away with all this. whats changed??

Not a lot.

It's just been a while since we've all wet our knickers.

[makepeace]

fair enough. in order to fit in ill say this: ARRRGHHH WERE FUCKED!!!!

[Drooper]

I've ran out of speculation joice now. Time to sit back and see what unfolds.

[Jussy]

No excuses for not putting through 500 H&D Big Rangers Thread 2012 t-shirts then. Who's putting them out to tender or will it just be done through the P&B Shop?

This section of the shop? http://pieandbovril.spreadshirt.co.uk/Deceased-Clubs-C59019

[Granny Danger]

Corporation tax is due annually but PAYE, NI and VAT are due quarterly.

Unless you're a fairly small employer, NI and PAYE are due monthly. Also over a certain size (I don't know what the cut-off is, probably bigger than Rangers' returns ) VAT can effectively become payable monthly; you do a quarterly return put have to make monthly payments on account.

[thenolly]

Apparently the reason why a CVA will likely be agreed is because un the CVA HMRC, Ticketus and everyone else will get something, if the club is liquidated then Whyte gets first dibs on 18million quid, then whats left after that is divided up amongst the creditors

Now considering that the players can supposedly walk for nothing in a liquidation scenario, that simply leaves Ibrox and Murray Park as sole Rangers Football Club Assets, which you most likely not get much for simply because MP can't be used for housing etc and Ibrox has a listed front part and would take significant finance to develop into something else.

Its to do with Whyte's floating charge that he has, or something like that

I havent a fecking clue and im just sitting back waiting for it to end one way or another, but above is the theory of why a CVA is quite a possibility

HMRC do not do CVA's, they may accept say 70p in the pound now with the rest being paid over the next 2 years, but they would rather wind up as it will ensure more money in the future from other companys, instead of using the precedend set by Rangers if a CVA of say 10p in the pound. Going forward would mean all companys could get away with paying only 10% of their tax, as Rangers were allowed to do it so why not them