Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Happy Buddie]

Good blog entry from a fellow Saint, have a read.

http://saintinasia.w...t-is-it-enough/

If only this could be looked at as a balancing act, as in "If RFC had played by the financial rules, over 20 years, they would have won 100 glory stars, including Scottish Cups, League Cups and League titles. As it is they won 200 glory stars, they will be penalised 100 glory stars over the next 20 years" So, we can work out how many league points on average they would lose over the next 20 years, and place a financial cap on their transfer spending over that time. Christ, if the BuggERRS are moaning about what's happening just now, how would they squeal with my scenario in place? I mean, it's only fair, if they have screwed Scottish football for that length of time, the punishment should fit the crime.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Happy Buddie

[thelegendthatis]

Heres the latest pearl of wisdom from followfollow.com, apparantly Rangers buying Lee Wallace on the never never was them helping Hearts out.

In other news it seems that as a result of Steve Browns comments St Johnstone have been added to "the list" get in there.

Delighted that followfollow remind us of their generosity.

Looking at the moves from Hibs, Thompson and Whittaker had agents who were not called Willie Mckay.

A phone call invites them to the Balmoral Hotel to meet an agent . ' I have moves lined up for you to Rangers'.

A few sweeteners and .....

From Wikipedia

"In the 2005–06 season Thomson made his comeback from his injury, establishing himself as one of Hibernian's most important players. He signed a long term contract (until 2010) in March 2006. Thomson was appointed as club captain by Tony Mowbray after the previous captain Gary Caldwell left the club to join Celtic. Despite signing a long term contract with Hibernian, it was still speculated that Thomson would soon leave Hibs. On 31 August 2006, Premier League club Bolton Wanderers made an offer that was rejected by Hibernian.^[3]

Speculation about Thomson's future increased after he (and Scott Brown) appointed Willie McKay as his agent. McKay demanded that Hibernian..........."

Did McKay do it all on his own, or was he sent? If so by whom? McKay of course has a 'good' relationship with Rangers and their key staff even trying to load Daniel Cousin onto them even while in administration.

Who was Thompson's agent before Willie, and what encouraged him to walk away?

Who benefited most? Hibs or Willie?

Will pass on the full story if you give me a new Merc and £25k (cash).

Edited May 23, 2012 by thelegendthatis

[No8.]

Frankly, I doubt the rest of us could care less. The story of Rangers cheating their way through years of Scottish and European football is far more interesting.

It was declared in their audited accounts..There was no cheating..there was no double contracts.

[danlichtie]

One thing I really don't understand (and it may be willful ignorance on the part of some RFC fans) is the implication that Whyte was entirely to blame for the lack of paying PAYE. Are we seriously to believe that he was in charge of payroll and was the only individual responsible for making payments to HMRC or even balancing the books?

Regardless of how many board members he sacked, someone surely was in charge (or likely a team of people) at RFC involved in paying wages, taxes, invoices etc.

Even at a much smaller club like mine, I can't imagine John Christison going through accounts, making sure wages were paid and pies would be delivered on time for Saturday!

Or are people really that naive?

[7-2]

So you are agreeing with me this time?

Fraid not Dr J. I've expressed my thoughts in a few posts before this one.

[gaz5]

Which names would you enjoy seeing most;

Hateley,

Gough,

Goram

Walt Smith

Fat Sally

Must put sheets in sofa - if those names appeared I would wet myself laughing at the legends

Think you might be too early with some of them, case is from 2001 onwards I reckon

The one I've been told, by a pretty reliable source, is Marvin Andrews. Apparently he was asked outright and being some sort of ordained minister who doesn't lie, he said "Yep, I got paid like that".

Personally, I think thats too funny to be true, so probably wont be. But if it turned out we were paying players of big Marv's caliber through the back door it must run fairly deep.

Think I'm one of the few Rangers fans who thinks we've got off lightly so far. Personally, if we die and come back as a newco in the SPL next season, I'll be spending more time down at Dunipace as the gig is clearly up.

[Jacksgranda]

One thing I really don't understand (and it may be willful ignorance on the part of some RFC fans) is the implication that Whyte was entirely to blame for the lack of paying PAYE. Are we seriously to believe that he was in charge of payroll and was the only individual responsible for making payments to HMRC or even balancing the books?

Regardless of how many board members he sacked, someone surely was in charge (or likely a team of people) at RFC involved in paying wages, taxes, invoices etc.

Even at a much smaller club like mine, I can't imagine John Christison going through accounts, making sure wages were paid and pies would be delivered on time for Saturday!

Or are people really that naive?

No, but some Rangers fans are that stupid.

[Fife Saint]

It was declared in their audited accounts..There was no cheating..there was no double contracts.

Was it disclosed along with the statutory contract when handed to the SFA, per SFA requirements? I think that's where this is going?

[realmadrid]

Which names would you enjoy seeing most;

Hateley,

Gough,

Goram

Walt Smith

Fat Sally

Must put sheets in sofa - if those names appeared I would wet myself laughing at the legends

I hope that some of the following appear on the list of people who have stolen from "The Rangers" and the tax payer.

I have a feeling the biggest payments will have gone to those who were not playing.

Did this man pay any tax in Scotland at Dundee FC or Rangers.

Martin Bain, the chemical Ali of Sectarianism and smug git.

Smith, bound to be up to his knees in EBT's

Out of work and needing some of that tax to pay his unemployment benefit.

Could he be spending his final days in jail!

[DeeGeeOneHamer]

So you are agreeing with me this time?

There is little point naming the players...They are footballers FFS they are paid to play football and are certainly not tax experts. If they are guilty of anything it is trusting others to look after their best interests.

I would want to know who was advising them...Who authorised the EBTs and so on...I would want the people ultimately responsible to be brought to task. Looks to me like they have absolutely nothing to show and are building it up as some kind of expose that is revealing what is more or less common knowledge.

The De Boers were paid in this way and i take it a few others signed around this time. As Jack Dee would say....So What?

Some top quality squirming in that response

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

Delighted that followfollow remind us of their generosity.

Looking at the moves from Hibs, Thompson and Whittaker had agents who were not called Willie Mckay.

A phone call invites them to the Balmoral Hotel to meet an agent . ' I have moves lined up for you to Rangers'.

A few sweeteners and .....

Did McKay do it all on his own, or was he sent? If so by whom? McKay of course has a 'good' relationship with Rangers and their key staff even trying to load Daniel Cousin onto them even while in administration.

Who was Thompson's agent before Willie, and what encouraged him to walk away?

Who benefited most? Hibs or Willie?

Will pass on the full story if you give me a new Merc and £25k (cash).

Was it not the case that after Brown and Thomson signed long term contracts they found they had been duped by their agent and he had negotiated a poor deal for them and a good deal for him and Hibs. McKay saw an opportunity and stepped in, tried to negotiate with Hibs (who had promised to review their contracts after the summer) but no word came back leading to a very unhappy Scott Brown.

Hibs made their own mess by signing them to long contracts paying little. They didn't have to sell either player but essentially shot themselves in the foot by screwing over their best players.

[ribzanelli]

There is little point naming the players...They are footballers FFS they are paid to play football and are certainly not tax experts. If they are guilty of anything it is trusting others to look after their best interests.

Wow, I agree with No8. The actual names of the players who benefitted are irellevant more or less.

[realmadrid]

One thing I really don't understand (and it may be willful ignorance on the part of some RFC fans) is the implication that Whyte was entirely to blame for the lack of paying PAYE. Are we seriously to believe that he was in charge of payroll and was the only individual responsible for making payments to HMRC or even balancing the books?

Regardless of how many board members he sacked, someone surely was in charge (or likely a team of people) at RFC involved in paying wages, taxes, invoices etc.

Even at a much smaller club like mine, I can't imagine John Christison going through accounts, making sure wages were paid and pies would be delivered on time for Saturday!

Or are people really that naive?

Did the SFA report not state that the person who could sign cheques had their limit reduced from £10,000 to £100 at the request of Mr Whyte and thus Rangers paid no one without Whytes say so. I would assume the same limits would have been set for electronic bank payments as this will be the way Rangers would have paid HMRC.

Rangers problem is the likes of John Greig did nothing about this and just let it happen.

[The Real Saints]

So, Rangers are boycotting us next season. What's the point in voting them into the SPL as a NewCo then? It will do us no good. Maybe a little bit of Sky income, but that situation hasn't been clarified.

Rangers fans are thick as f**k. Steve Brown's interview didn't state that he doesn't want a NewCo in the league full-stop. He probably will still vote in favour of Rangers, but with sanctions. Rangers supporters could be shooting themselves in the foot with their foolish talks of boycotts, and I hope Steve Brown sees sense.

Edited May 23, 2012 by The Real Saints

[John..You're Immortal]

<br />It was declared in their audited accounts..There was no cheating..there was no double contracts.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Brilliant News! Will use this in my tax return next year: 'I'm not paying tax; The advantage I have with having extra money to buy assets for my company does not impact my rivals. Any money I owe can be paid back at pennies in the pound and I get to keep all my holdings. It's not cheating, it's business.

Will drop you all a line from BAR-L to let you know how it went

[Billy Jean King]

So you are agreeing with me this time?

There is little point naming the players...They are footballers FFS they are paid to play football and are certainly not tax experts. If they are guilty of anything it is trusting others to look after their best interests.

I would want to know who was advising them...Who authorised the EBTs and so on...I would want the people ultimately responsible to be brought to task. Looks to me like they have absolutely nothing to show and are building it up as some kind of expose that is revealing what is more or less common knowledge.

The De Boers were paid in this way and i take it a few others signed around this time. As Jack Dee would say....So What?

Are you for real - so it's about to cost you tens of millions in unpaid tax that's what. Every director involved at the time must have been aware how the employees wages were being paid. I doubt every player RFC signed for ten years had their agent come to the Ibrox board and suggest they pay their client in such a way that they avoided UK tax - the club MUST have made it known to these players that this was an option - a dangly carrot which no doubt in many cases persuaded them to sign. Think about it for one minute - what the f**k were players like the De Boers, Laudrup and Gascoigne doing at a club like Rangers in the first place !

[Claymores]

Rangers Tax Case has hinted that there were years when all the cheating scumbag's first team choices were on undeclared EBTs and ergo being fielded while ineligible - it's gonna have be a big huge long scrolling list to name them all!. No wonder the programme is an hour this time around

[No8.]

Some top quality squirming in that response

So players are named...probably without any real proof and we could all have a guess at who they are...Then what? We all know people were paid through this scheme. Nothing new at all and a total waste of time and money.

No squirming at all...I would hope if anything illegal has gone on that those who are ultimately responsible are brought to justice and punished in full...and yes even if that means Rangers

[Homer Thompson]

So you are agreeing with me this time?

There is little point naming the players...They are footballers FFS they are paid to play football and are certainly not tax experts. If they are guilty of anything it is trusting others to look after their best interests.

I would want to know who was advising them...Who authorised the EBTs and so on...I would want the people ultimately responsible to be brought to task. Looks to me like they have absolutely nothing to show and are building it up as some kind of expose that is revealing what is more or less common knowledge.

The De Boers were paid in this way and i take it a few others signed around this time. As Jack Dee would say....So What?

Au contraire, there is every point in naming them. If it was just one player, or even, a small group of players - just the De Boers, for example - then it could be put down to an oversight, a mistake, maybe just niavity. And Rangers could claim that the impact of their cheating wasnt actually that big. However, if the list is as long as the list of, say, creditors, then its proof of systematic, wholescale, cheating over a long period of time. The difference between the two is absolutely huge.

Of course, we all know that its the latter, but having evidence will be nice

It was declared in their audited accounts..There was no cheating..there was no double contracts.

^^ not sure if serious.

[danlichtie]

So you are agreeing with me this time?

There is little point naming the players...They are footballers FFS they are paid to play football and are certainly not tax experts. If they are guilty of anything it is trusting others to look after their best interests.

I would want to know who was advising them...Who authorised the EBTs and so on...I would want the people ultimately responsible to be brought to task. Looks to me like they have absolutely nothing to show and are building it up as some kind of expose that is revealing what is more or less common knowledge.

The De Boers were paid in this way and i take it a few others signed around this time. As Jack Dee would say....So What?

I would agree with you to an extent - if they planning to simply say "Amoruso got paid via EBTs for years - and then he won trophies with Rangers" then it's a total waste of time for all involved. The real crooks are those who devised the scheme and it will be interesting to see what comes out of tonight's programme in terms of SDM and pals knowledge of how dodgy the EBTs were believed to be.

While you are correct in stating players are not tax experts, they also cannot use ignorance as an excuse. If my work started saying to me they were going to pay me in cash delivered to my door in a brown envelope rather than the usual way they pay me, in court my argumengt of not knowing better would be laughed at. However, as far as I know it's unlikely to be in the public interest to prosecute individuals relating to Rangers EBTs (if found illegal).

Finally, I hope (probably the wrong word to use) that RFC don't get docked titles as a result, such an outcome would be utterly hollow and silly. I don't believe that unless a club actually fixes matches that titles should be annulled - regardless of how the players were being paid, they were still the best team in the league and cups for those years.