~~~ Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Tits Goodnight all 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillieJimbo Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) Hearts vote for Newco my erse. There is no way this side of time Romanov is going to vote for any of the ugly sisters no matter what money is involved. Considering they'll get hee-haw for Wallace it just makes them even less likely to vote them in. The only definite so far is our own embarrassing chairman though believe me the fans will let him know in no uncertain terms what he *should* be voting. I honestly cannot see them getting 8 votes anyway but the good thing if that happens is we can all forget about Scottish football once and for all, because it'll have been proven as an utter sham and going to any game will simply be supporting the old firm by proxy. Edited June 13, 2012 by KillieJimbo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 If Smith is right... and obviously a lot of it is supposition and/or dependant on whole load of variables and ways the landscape could lie... then the clubs might be split right down the middle. This looks, IMO, the very worst scenario of all. Potentially the Newco would be rejected by 1 or 2 votes (with resulting fears of financial calamity), or approved by 1 or 2 votes (with resulting integrity issues) - and it'll be civil war. If we work on the basis of an open ballot, then it seems that Hibs are a 'No' and Celtic would surely have to be for their fans. At this stage, I don't think anyone else has said enough to be a stick-on No. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 If the spl say no to the newco, surely they are out altogether as the sfl has rules against newcos? Rangers don't have SFL membership... If their SFA membership is transferred then either [1] they're already the NewCo and are applying for an SFL3 vacancy, or [2] SPL devises some way of allowing them to transfer their SPL share but them relegates them in place of Dunfermline. (Perpetual Agreement and rules of both leagues force them to accept a promoted or relegated club meeting criteria). Former looks more credible, clearly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God of War Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 If Smith is right... and obviously a lot of it is supposition and/or dependant on whole load of variables and ways the landscape could lie... then the clubs might be split right down the middle. This looks, IMO, the very worst scenario of all. Potentially the Newco would be rejected by 1 or 2 votes (with resulting fears of financial calamity), or approved by 1 or 2 votes (with resulting integrity issues) - and it'll be civil war. If we work on the basis of an open ballot, then it seems that Hibs are a 'No' and Celtic would surely have to be for their fans. At this stage, I don't think anyone else has said enough to be a stick-on No. Nobody has come out an said anything concrete, all they have done is postured without the need to confirm what they will do. I dont think anyone is a confirmed no at the moment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotWeissEssen Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) Quote from Green. Don't know if its been posted before but this sums him up "It's a sad day for the club, for the fans. HMRC have got a lot to answer for." Its all HMRC fault and they have a lot to answer for ! The average rangers fan I think will buy this. HMRC have a clear policy on CVA which know one in the scottish media bothered to read. The experts in the paper predicted CVA would go through. The whole scottish media can be summed up by their reporting on the CVA with most taking a positive stance. When you add in Neil Doncaster who did not expect a new co to apply to the league. Neil Doncaster expected HMRC to go against their clear policy's and except a CVA. You can be certain that Rod Petrie/Milne/Romanov all knew the CVA would fail , they have had time to decide how to vote. Aberdeen Celtic Dundee united Hearts Hibs I think they will all vote against the new co. No doubt every paper in scotland will now be saying that its certain the New co will get in. I don't think they will get in everyone of the clubs above would lose massive support if they voted yes. Can you imagine the first games of next season being aberdeen 0 new co 3 or hibs 0 new co 3 Hibs & aberdeen are that crap it could happen. Any club that votes Yes should never be allowed to forget it. It would be helpful if supporters clubs of all SPL clubs gathered and put statements out supporting a full boycott of any club voting yes. Edited June 13, 2012 by RotWeissEssen 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForzaDundee Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I'm saying this right here, right now. If the newco are accepted I'm never giving a penny to any of the SPL clubs or watching them on TV until the decision maker has been driven out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillieJimbo Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 If there is "transparency" in the vote then any club that votes Rangers in will be completely f*cked over in lost season tickets guaranteed. I believe they'll do everything they can to make it a secret ballot because that's the only way they'll be allowed in. As supporters we need to make sure that we know exactly who has voted for what, and dish out whatever punishments are necessary to our own wrongdoing chairmen. As a Killie fan we're pretty much f*cked either way but I want the h*ns deid before we go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roverthemoon Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Nobody has come out an said anything concrete, all they have done is postured without the need to confirm what they will do. I dont think anyone is a confirmed no at the moment. I agree but assuming that Smith is near the mark in assessment (big assumption I know) then fan power is what is driving almost everyone bar Petrie to lean towards no. Ultimately it is fan power that is going to get the Chairmen to think twice before letting Rangers slink back in. Rangers fans come along twice a season. Their own fans come along 19 times. If they think they are potentially going to lose a lot of home supporters if they let Rangers back in then they are more likely to vote No. I think clubs like Kilmarnock, ICT and St Johnstone are lost causes and probably Hearts as well. But if Trusts or other fan groups or even individuals could mobilise fans at Hibs, Aberdeen, Celtic, Motherwell, Dundee Utd and maybe even Ross County to make their views known before this vote they they are more likely to vote No or vote yes with more severe sanctions. The two problems with all this is that you are relying on fans threatening to hurt their own club to get at Rangers and fans across a number of clubs and ultimately it's football chairmen we are talking about who are all individuals and still might say just let them back in at the end of the day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotWeissEssen Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 If there is "transparency" in the vote then any club that votes Rangers in will be completely f*cked over in lost season tickets guaranteed. I believe they'll do everything they can to make it a secret ballot because that's the only way they'll be allowed in. As supporters we need to make sure that we know exactly who has voted for what, and dish out whatever punishments are necessary to our own wrongdoing chairmen. As a Killie fan we're pretty much f*cked either way but I want the h*ns deid before we go. Rangers should not be allowed back in. If Rangers get sent to the 3rd division, then two years later Killie do a new co, they should be allowed back into the SPL without penalties Killie voted no to rangers new co, and then doing a new co the year after and getting back in the SPL, would be one of finest points in SPL history. While Rangers are in the lower leagues SPL clubs should attempt as many new cos as possible. Possibly some kind of new co pack next year where the whole of the league does a new co with no penalties without rangers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambie's Pigeon Feed Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Just watched Full Metal Jacket and the ending made me think of this whole sordid mess... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee_Dollar Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I would be very surprised if DA were allowed back into the SPL if newco are sent elsewhere. IMO, I would hope we stay in Div 1. If we are challenging for the league our crowds would be the same if not better than what we had last season. We dont need RFC or newco to fill EEP, any club outwith the OF challenging for honours would bring big crowds anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedruleFTD83 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Only 5 clubs i can see maybe voting No Celtic, Aberdeen, United, Hibs and St Mirren and it would need all 5 to deny Newco. The rest most likely will vote Yes including certainties like Motherwell, Killie and St Johnstone 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnesTON Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Again, I'm sure this has probably already been asked and answered but should they still get found guilty in the Big Tax Case who gets held to account for it? I think thats why HMRC have a policy to liquidate rather accept a CVA as this prevents any investigation into previous directors actions. This allows HMRC to go after Whyte and possibly Minty. Whyte must be on their radar for sure the guy is just carpet bagging companies up and down the country. They will want to confirm Whyte has no holding on the assets. I think HMRC have done their bit by ensuring the matter is investigated now it is up to the football authorities to do their duty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wings Over Scotland Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Interesting article in the Scotsman on how clubs might vote which basically lines up the clubs like this ST MIRREN Another of the swaying brigade, chairman Stewart Gilmour has previously stated Scottish football needs "a strong Rangers and a strong Celtic" but lacerated the Ibrox club for their legal recourse beyond the game. St Mirren's position will be determined by whether any newco vote is held before 4 July, when ownership of the club is set to transfer to a supporters' group. How they might vote: If the current board are still in place Rangers will be supported, if the fans group have taken over perhaps not. This was the interesting bit for me. There has to be 14 days' notice of an SPL meeting to discuss admitting the newco, which means there isn't much time left to beat that 4th July deadline, after which you'd surely think a fan-controlled club would tell Rangers-ish FC to GTF. Many are predicting the newco decision will be taken at the SPL AGM, which isn't until July 16. That leaves us looking like Celtic, Aberdeen, Hibs, Dundee Utd and St Mirren would vote no, which means Rangers go bye-bye. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBairn Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 NO - Celtic, Aberdeen, Hibs YES - Hearts, Kilmarnock, ICT, St Johnstone UNSURE - St Mirren, Ross County, Motherwell (no leaning), Dundee Utd (no leaning) By my reckoning, if St Mirren and Dundee Utd were added to the NO's then we have our desired result. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wokcomble Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Interesting article in the Scotsman on how clubs might vote which basically lines up the clubs like this NO - Celtic, Aberdeen, Hibs YES - Hearts, Kilmarnock, ICT, St Johnstone UNSURE - St Mirren, Ross County, Motherwell (no leaning), Dundee Utd (no leaning) Thomson says he has made up his mind so look like Motherwell and Ross County could be the best bets to reach the 5 By ANDREW SMITH Published on Wednesday 13 June 2012 00:25 Horse-trading and hard thinking will determine whether SPL clubs will vote to accept a newco Rangers in the Scottish top flight.If five clubs are against, they won't. Many imponderables must be factored in, chief among these Sky's attitude to honouring their £80m five-year deal, scheduled to begin this coming season, if Rangers are not in the SPL. Clubs could be willing to vote for the new Rangers, with sanctions attached, in return for them agreeing to change the current 11-1 voting structure on the distribution of centralised revenues. Here we look at the possible standpoints of the 11 clubs: ABERDEEN The Pittodrie support, through their Trust, have been among the most vociferous opponents of a Rangers newco that would betray a "rigged system" in which there were clubs "too big too fail" and cause them to desert their club en masse. Their chairman, Stewart Milne, wants all this to go away. His club are £12m in debt, he is financing a £38m new stadium and would only say last month: "We will do what we believe is in the best interests of Aberdeen Football Club and Scottish football." How they might vote: Milne may be backed in to the 'no' corner by a support he cannot afford to lose. CELTIC They have deliberately said little beyond chief executive Peter Lawwell's catch-all: "Our guiding principle is to do what is in the best interests of Celtic and our supporters, while upholding the interests and reputation of Scottish football." The club that stands to lose most financially if there is no Rangers in the SPL, in any ideal world they wouldn't want that but there would be a mass revolt among their support if they didn't serve sporting integrity in the expected fashion. How they might vote: A stick-on 'no to newco' because any other response would be commercial suicide. DUNDEE UNITED Owner Stephen Thompson has admitted to attitudes hardening over Rangers after they went to the civil courts. His mind seems to be being made up by a Tannadice faithful who are letting him know they will turn their back on the club if he favours a Rangers newco. "I was told that, at Motherwell at the end of last season, every turnstile had a poster above it saying 'no to newco'. It was the same at Aberdeen. Fans are feeling very strongly about it. I have been sent hundreds of letters and emails on the subject. Some of them are from people who have been season-ticket holders for 30 years. I have made my mind up, which I won't go public on. You have to listen to the fans as well but you have a responsibility to the club as well. That doesn't necessarily mean I want them in. Don't read too much in that." How they might vote: A probable 'no' but might be swayed with heavy sanctions for a newco Rangers. HEARTS On the line for around £600,000 in lost revenue if the TV deal takes a heavy hit with no Rangers in the SPL, money – including the £800,000 Rangers owe them for Lee Wallace – will dictate their attitude. Hence director Sergejus Fedotovas' take: "Justice is very important but lessons learned are more valuable. Scottish football should not put all focus on the punishment." How they might vote: Certain to back a Rangers return. HIBERNIAN No-one has been more unequivocal about their rejection of a fiscal imperative to accept Rangers as a newco than Hibernian chairman Rod Petrie. "Fundamental to us at our club is to make sure the integrity of the game is not called into question and that the sporting integrity of the competition we take part in is maintained at the highest standards. It's not a question of any sum of money in return for that integrity – integrity is beyond purchase. It's important that all clubs can have a place within football, provided they have earned it in a sporting sense and also have abided by the rules. If we are called upon to make any decisions we will try to do the right thing and uphold the integrity of the competition that we are engaged in." How they might vote: A Rangers refusnik. INVERNESS CT Reacted angrily to Rangers' Court of Session challenge to the SFA but won't want any uncertainties over revenues when finances tight. Chairman Kenny Cameron said: "There is much still to discuss – but I hope this will bring certainty and closure to this issue. We just need to move on from this situation." How they might vote: Will want a Rangers in the SPL. KILMARNOCK There is no guesswork required to determine the intentions of club chairman Michael Johnston. "Members see the commercial benefits of having Rangers, even as a newco," he said last month. "The clubs are mindful of a sporting integrity aspect, but the commercial benefits may outweigh that." How they might vote: Another certainty to accept any Rangers. Johnston has also cautioned against any further punishments for the club that plays out of Ibrox. MOTHERWELL Another club whose minds might be made up by their masses, the club's proposed fan ownership model is dependent on listening to them. As they admitted in mealy-mouth fashion. "We do not believe we can separate the sporting integrity of our league from the sustainable future of our club – the two go hand-in-hand. Any decisions we take as a board are made in the best interests of the club with a view to achieving our stated aims for ownership and funding. [A newco proposal we would] fully discuss with representatives of our supporters' groups, prior to making any decision." How they might vote: The rank and file seem to be pushing them reluctantly towards the 'no' camp. ROSS COUNTY The newest member of the 11, they are not financially dependent on the SPL, in whatever form it takes. Their chairman Roy MacGregor's stance reflects that. "I will listen to the arguments. I will not prejudge. We are taking a calculated risk on our budget for next season and it was done before this situation. It will make no difference," he said. How they might vote: For their first season among the elite they could feel cheated if there was no Rangers. File under "don't know". ST JOHNSTONE Contradictory noises have come from chairman Steven Brown. Has said his club don't need Rangers but that it would be a "disaster" if the brand was lost to the SPL. Then last week he stated: "I certainly will not let Rangers in without sanctions. The feeling from the people I've spoken to is they won't let Rangers in with a 'get out free card'." How they might vote: Will vote Rangers in with the right penalty tariff. ST MIRREN Another of the swaying brigade, chairman Stewart Gilmour has previously stated Scottish football needs "a strong Rangers and a strong Celtic" but lacerated the Ibrox club for their legal recourse beyond the game. St Mirren's position will be determined by whether any newco vote is held before 4 July, when ownership of the club is set to transfer to a supporters' group. How they might vote: If the current board are still in place Rangers will be supported, if the fans group have taken over perhaps not. THE FANS COULD TIP THE BALANCE - LETS HOPE THEY ALL GET ORGANISED LIKE THE ABERDEEN FANS AND STOP A NEWCO RANGERS GETTING ENTRY TO THE SPL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magee84 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Celtic will vote to let them in ... mark my words 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 This was the interesting bit for me. There has to be 14 days' notice of an SPL meeting to discuss admitting the newco, which means there isn't much time left to beat that 4th July deadline, after which you'd surely think a fan-controlled club would tell Rangers-ish FC to GTF. Many are predicting the newco decision will be taken at the SPL AGM, which isn't until July 16. That leaves us looking like Celtic, Aberdeen, Hibs, Dundee Utd and St Mirren would vote no, which means Rangers go bye-bye. That also assumes our fan take over happens. We're sailing close to the deadline with not quite enough members at the moment sadly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForzaDundee Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Can we get a list of emails for all the clubs so we can all tell them our opinions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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