Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[wunfellaff]

MSM report contains the leaseback story

Football Talk: Zombie attack, Ibrox leaseback, SPL goals, Torres dive

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/celtic/197233-football-talk-zombie-attack-ibrox-leaseback-spl-goals-torres-dive/

[~~~]

“@WillhelmA: Release Conor McGhie http://t.co/KByuXJUu What happens to Rangers fans who befall the Republican establishment.”

“@WillhelmA: Can all Rangers fans sign this petition and demand the release of a young man imprisoned for being a Rangers fan http://t.co/6Pavs9nR”

“@WillhelmA: If it was up to the haters, we would all be wearing yellow stars very soon. To imprison this young man was political.”

Is there anyone left in Scotland who isn't anti rangers?

Edited October 29, 2012 by Enrico Annoni

[wunfellaff]

Greens interview on TalkShoite this morning.....

[williemillersmoustache]

Nice Rico add a million to what the actual wage bill is and then just speculate about the rest

So a £6million wage bill in SFL 3? That's ok then. In fact how prudent, frugal and veritably thrifty compared to recent years your mob are being. Jolly well done.

Imagine I ripped off everybody on my street one year, went bankrupt, then returned next year bought a flash car and started putting pointless, expensive ornaments and a hot-tub in my front garden for all to see. I think I would rightly be called a c*nt and it wouldn't be paranoid to think that everyone was out to get me, because they would be, because I'd be a thieving c*@t .

This is precisely why you lot are c*nts. Ok c*nt?

[bennett]

So a £6million wage bill in SFL 3? That's ok then. In fact how prudent, frugal and veritably thrifty compared to recent years your mob are being. Jolly well done.

Imagine I ripped off everybody on my street one year, went bankrupt, then returned next year bought a flash car and started putting pointless, expensive ornaments and a hot-tub in my front garden for all to see. I think I would rightly be called a c*nt and it wouldn't be paranoid to think that everyone was out to get me, because they would be, because I'd be a thieving c*@t .

This is precisely why you lot are c*nts. Ok c*nt?

Cheers Dolly, we need to make sure we never get carried away again with signing players, This season most of our new players have came in on free's and will along with the kids will be the spine of the team for the next few years. Bring kids through and sell them, has to be our way now, same with other clubs i'd wager.

not sure what your dodgy dealings have to do with this but fair play on the highlighted part.

Edited October 29, 2012 by bennett

[SS-18 ICBM]

Have never read this before...http://www.followfol...218/index.shtml

"The AGM was packaged in a manner that master-of-spin Tony Blair would have been proud"

"John McLelland found it necessary to pay tribute to Murray – acknowledging "what he has done for and meant to the club." Presumably this includes taking the club to the brink of bankruptcy…"

"With a Balance Sheet that resembles a disaster area,"

"one is left pondering what auditors Grant Thornton thought of this sleight of hand."

"the meeting ended in rancour when shareholder Jim Christie demanded to know why 'FOLLOW FOLLOW' was banned from the Press Box whilst the likes of Gerry McNee were granted access. Martin Bain predictably replied that 'FF' was banned because of its' sectarian content, whilst stressing that the club recognised "the freedom of the Press." He was shouted down, leaving Chairman John McLelland to close the meeting with a plea that "we must rise above all of this."

This was 10 years ago, written by Rangers fans. Obviously these fans were feeling conned by the board of the time. How prescient.

So it is unfair to brand all Rangers/Sevco supporters like Bennett, Tedi, Bendarroch, Bearwithme and Youngsy who are enthusiastic fans but obviously not the brightest shillings in the jar.

[thelegendthatis]

Conduct of Sir David Murray, Craig Whyte and Rangers directors examined: http://www.scotsman....ined-1-2595313?

And John Greig.

He might go for the Harry Redknapp defence

"I can't work a computer, I don't know what an email is, I can't, I have never sent a fax and I've never even sent a text message. I have a big problem, I can't write so I don't keep anything. I am the most disorganised person, I am ashamed to say, in the world.

I've never wrote a letter in my life. I couldn't write a letter. I write like a two-year-old and I can't spell. "

"I was just there as a figurehead to keep the fans on side. To con them into believing Rangers was being run for the fans. I know I sat in at board meetings but I hadn't a clue what they were talking about. And as for voting, I just voted with Sir David. " "Good wages though and some excellent trips all expenses paid "

"Oh yes and I am currently a trustee of the Rangers Charitable Trust - on the same basis. "

Guilty twice over

Edited October 29, 2012 by thelegendthatis

[wunfellaff]

Cheers Dolly, we need to make sure we never get carried away again with signing players,

I think it is fair to say that your club has signed its last player, ever

[kiddy]

So a £6million wage bill in SFL 3? That's ok then. In fact how prudent, frugal and veritably thrifty compared to recent years your mob are being. Jolly well done.

Imagine I ripped off everybody on my street one year, went bankrupt, then returned next year bought a flash car and started putting pointless, expensive ornaments and a hot-tub in my front garden for all to see. I think I would rightly be called a c*nt and it wouldn't be paranoid to think that everyone was out to get me, because they would be, because I'd be a thieving c*@t .

This is precisely why you lot are c*nts. Ok c*nt?

I was thinking more Colin Hendry, am I right, do I win a prize?

[bennett]

Nice redelection from showing some proof

Oh yea thats right, you wanted a screen shot of somethig that Mark Daly said on TV and radio, i'll ask the boffins to figure something out.

I'll get back to you ASAP.

[bennett]

I think it is fair to say that your club has signed its last player, ever

Sorry mate but i don't think i can keep up with this level of debating.

[SS-18 ICBM]

Another interesting FF article from 10 years ago, Thursday, 26th September 2002

The Rangers Accounts Explained - Problems and Answers: http://www.followfollow.com/news/tmnw/the_rangers_accounts_explained__problems_and_answers_65274/index.shtml

I'm posting this purely for historical purposes as we all know how much The zombie Rangers supporters of corruption value their old club's history.

Brock Stoker provides a guide for the man in the street.

The Mysteries of Company Finance

How much money did you make last year? Easy, add up your wages (or look at your P60). How much do you owe? Easy, mortgage plus credit cards plus loans less anything that's in the bank. But for companies it isn¹t so straightforward. Even when they produce a nice 30+ page Report and Accounts as Rangers do it still needs a bit of explanation and interpretation. So the accounts tell us that Rangers made a loss of £35m after all charges and has Net Debt of £52m. We can all see that that isn't good, but just how bad is it?

Do Rangers need to make a Profit?

There are a few different levels in a profit and loss account, especially for a football team, and for RFC the first important line comes at the trading profit or in our case the Trading Loss. £45m came in from ticket sales, TV, advertising, replica shirts, pies, Rangers News etc. However, we then start off with a wage bill of £37m and a whole host of other costs which bring the total cost of running the club to almost £64m giving us a trading loss of £19m. TV revenues will be down this year and if we fail to stay in Europe beyond Christmas, then that will also hit revenues.

It'll take the sale of a lot of Tangerine jerseys to fill the TV gap. The wage bill should be down, as Kanchelskis, Flo, Vidmar, Wilson, and the other departures were being paid more than Arteta and Muscat get, but closing a £19m gap in the current environment looks an impossible task. To get to the next level ­ Operating Losses of almost £32m ­ we need to deduct 'Net charge for player registrations', which is not as simple as cost of players bought less cash from players sold.

Player Registrations

The way this works is that if we buy a player for £12m and put him on a four year contract, then he goes into the balance sheet at £12m, and in each of the four years of his contract, £3m comes out of the balance sheet and goes into the player registration charge. If we sell that player after two years then he is in the books at £6m and so that £6m will need to be written off. As an example the sale of TAF would lead to a £6m charge to player registrations and £6.75m in. So in the accounts he will not help the trading profit and will only reduce player registrations charge by £0.75m.

Selling Gio for £8.5m when he is in the last year of his contract is far more lucrative, but even that still left the charge for player registrations at £13m. The players are now in the books (as intangible assets) at under £26m so this charge looks set to fall unless something unexpected goes on in the transfer market.

More Losses

Including interest of over £3m leaves RFC with pretax losses of £35m ­ and as no tax is paid, £35m is the after tax loss as well, more than double last year's £17m.

Net Debt

Last year in Follow Follow, I pointed out that Rangers published debts of almost £52m exaggerated the size of the problem as the £8.5m Rangers Bonds and the £15m from the NTL deal were not normal debt. The bill for my consultancy fee to RFC is in the post as I write, as the club has decided to ignore these numbers. In fact it has now restated last year's debts at £28m, which makes this year¹s figure of £52m all the more worrying. Using the same treatment as last year would have seen it rocket to around £75m.

Debts rising by £24m could be a disaster for any company but the bulk of this has been funded by increased bank borrowings which now stand at £41m. The good news is that over £37m of this does not need to be repaid within the next five years. However, it does go some way to explaining the new Ibrox economics ­ sell before you buy. If I had just lent someone an extra £20m then I'd want a say in how they spent the money. It looks that financial prudence is the idea of the banks and not the chairman.

There are two big loans from the banks, one for £15m which gets repaid over 18 years starting in 2004 (but less than £3m before five years) and another for £25m where repayments don't start until 2017. Debt is high but no-one is knocking on the door looking for money.

Shareholders Funds

Non-accountants may wish to skip this bit, but at the bottom of a company balance sheet is a number called Shareholders Funds. Essentially, this is what would be left if the company sold all its assets (players, stadium, Auchenhowie) for what they are in the books for, collected all money owing and repaid all its debts. The RFC accounts call this number £12m or 21p for each share in the club, but unlike last year this includes the £8.5m bonds which would not go to shareholders if the club was wound up. I believe a truer estimate of shareholders funds would be £3.5m or 6 pence per share. A far cry from the share price of 115p. Now few companies share prices bear much resemblance to shareholders funds, but in the absence of positive profits or cash flow, or an asset value we need to look somewhere to value the club. This number is only really relevant if a company is being wound up, but as a word of warning ­ another loss like last year and shareholders funds would be negative.

So what does this all mean?

1. There is no immediate crisis at Ibrox as the banks appear happy to lend the club the money to keep it trading. But as I said above, they are probably imposing strict financial constraints on how the club operates.

2. At some point, the banks will expect to see Rangers make a profit, which will need some radical changes on the cost side. Last year the interest charge was £3m but this looks set to rise along with debt. With TV revenues down, it may be that the sale of Bazza has been delayed not cancelled.

3. Rangers could do with some new money. This does not come from either ENIC or David Murray selling shares as that would go to them not the club. It means selling new shares to rich Bears, but the experiences of recent investors, and the uncertainty over football funding in general make this look an unlikely source of new money in the near term.

4. The bottom line is that in order to support a player pool of the size and quality we have today, we need to be playing in competitions that TV viewers (and hence TV companies) will pay money to watch. This is probably what the banks are hoping for.

Is David Murray to blame?

Yes and no! He gambled ­ on Walter Smith, on Gazza, on Brian Laudrup, on Dick Advocaat, on Ronald de Boer, on Tore Andre Flo, on Sky TV, on European ticket prices, on the SPL, on Alex McLeish, on the willingness of the fans to buy three strips a year, etc, etc. But all his gambles appear to me to have been made with the interests of Rangers rather than David Murray at heart.

However, the gambles have not paid off, and Alex McLeish and John McClelland will have to live under the constraints that this will bring. But Rangers are not alone. Football in general is in financial crisis, and this will inevitably lead to change. The tiny ten resigning from the SPL is a help rather than a hindrance to the reconstruction which is inevitable.

Serious new TV money will only come from presenting viewers with something new. Rangers is a box office draw, sadly a bigger one in cahoots with Celtic, and therefore we will be part of something different in the future.

Brock Stoker

[TheLip69]

I probably attend far more Scotland games than you and since you referred directly to me then this is relevant, more relevant however is the percentages of fans at scotland games with regards to what club they support, perhaps you should have done some research before issuing your bold statement, the last time an official survey was carried out 21% of fans attending Scotland games were Rangers fans, I have no doubt this has dropped recently but as a Celtic fan you will surely know that historically you clubs fans have always been under presented at Scotland games

The last part of your reply is equally stupid, just ask clyde fans who have no love for our club if they gained finacially from our visit today

If those figures are true then I would suggest the fact that the supposed "biggest and best supported club in Scotland" only supplies a 5th of the total support of the National side would mean that you were also seriously under represented (sic).

If you are intimating that Celtic have a lesser support for National games than yourselves then that means the vast majority of Scotland fans, more than 60% if your figures are to be believed, comes from the rest of us ,the so-called diddy clubs, hardly a ringing endorsement for your club or it's fans.

[stonedsailor]

“@WillhelmA: Release Conor McGhie http://t.co/KByuXJUu What happens to Rangers fans who befall the Republican establishment.”

“@WillhelmA: Can all Rangers fans sign this petition and demand the release of a young man imprisoned for being a Rangers fan http://t.co/6Pavs9nR”

“@WillhelmA: If it was up to the haters, we would all be wearing yellow stars very soon. To imprison this young man was political.”

Is there anyone left in Scotland who isn't anti rangers?

They don't do the law. The law the land says no continuation, they just ignore it. The custodians of the law say three months, and if the prisoner took the recognised process of appeal he would have been released awaiting that appeal, they fight it with online petitions.

The boy has obviously accepted his term and willing to do it. There's a five year maximum sentence for his crime, he got off light. Everyone knew the law was coming but this orc was too stupid to obey it. He was jailed stupidity more than anything.

[Bendarroch]

So a £6million wage bill in SFL 3? That's ok then. In fact how prudent, frugal and veritably thrifty compared to recent years your mob are being. Jolly well done.

Imagine I ripped off everybody on my street one year, went bankrupt, then returned next year bought a flash car and started putting pointless, expensive ornaments and a hot-tub in my front garden for all to see. I think I would rightly be called a c*nt and it wouldn't be paranoid to think that everyone was out to get me, because they would be, because I'd be a thieving c*@t .

This is precisely why you lot are c*nts. Ok c*nt?

Envy and angst all rolled into one salvo

Once again we see the real reason for this thread - the diddy clubbers and plastics wanted is dead. We refused to play ball and now we are on the march back - they are fucking raging at the outcome.

[SS-18 ICBM]

Bullshitter Chucky Green rules out SPL return: http://www.sportingl...out-spl-return?

October 29 2012, 13:58 GMT

Bullshitter Chucky Green has reiterated his stance that Rangers will not play in the Scottish Premier League as long as he is at the club.

The Ibrox chief executive, who bought the club for £5.5m in June, is adamant the third division outfit will 'not play where they are not wanted'.

Green is sticking by the promise he made during the summer when Rangers were voted out of the top flight due to unpaid taxes and National Insurance payments.

Speaking on TalkSport he said: "The chief executive of the SFA, Stewart Regan, has said there will have to be some restructuring in Scottish football.

"It's no secret the SPL have been working on a plan and I understand the Football League have got their vision for change in Scottish football. It has to change because it's in a mess.

"It's really difficult for me to take seriously the SPL re-structure. They threw us out of the league and are now pursuing title stripping, and for us to sit down and think that after all that has come to fruition that I will say 'OK, everything's forgotten', you're in cloud cuckoo land. I don't forgive and forget.

"While I'm chief executive, Rangers will not play in the Scottish Premier League.

"If that situation arose, I would go out to the fans, as we did earlier in the year. But my position wouldn't have changed. If they wanted to go back into the SPL, then fine. But I won't be chief executive."

And Green also took the time to rubbish reports he is about to sell Ibrox.

"I saw an email and blog saying we're going to enter into a sale and leaseback of Murray Park and Ibrox for £8.5m but it is absolute nonsense.

"We've got a valuation that'll go into the prospectus valuing all the properties in excess of £80m. This is just rubbish put out by people who are trying to disrupt this IPO (initial public offering)."

Same old...same old bullshit from Bullshitter Chucky Green, no surprises.

Rangers won't play in SPL under my watch, says angry club chief Bullshitter Chucky Green: http://www.dailymail...rles-Green.html

13:33, 29 October 2012

Rangers chief executive Charles Green has hit out the planned restructuring of the Scottish Premier League and insisted his club will never again play in it on his watch.

Green says he has no interest in helping the SPL after the punishments - relegation to the fourth tier, with the potential of their titles being taken away - dished out to his club this year.

Speaking to talkSport, he said: 'The chief executive of the SFA, Stewart Regan, has said there will have to be some restructuring in Scottish football.

'It’s no secret the SPL have been working on a plan and I understand the Football League have got their vision for change in Scottish football. It has to change because it’s in a mess.

'It’s really difficult for me to take seriously the SPL re-structure.

'They threw us out of the league and are now pursuing title stripping, and for us to sit down and think that after all that has come to fruition that I will say "OK, everything's forgotten", you’re in cloud cuckoo land. I don’t forgive and forget.

'While I’m Chief Executive, Rangers will not play in the Scottish Premier League. [if that situation arose], I would go out to the fans, as we did earlier in the year, when they were consulted as to what division they wanted to play in.

'They wanted to play in the Third Division and we as investors listened to them and were happy to do that.

'And we would go back to them again. But my position wouldn’t have changed. If they wanted to go back into the SPL, then fine. But I won’t be chief executive.'

Edited October 29, 2012 by SS-18 ICBM

[stonedsailor]

Envy and angst all rolled into one salvo

Once again we see the real reason for this thread - the diddy clubbers and plastics wanted is dead. We refused to play ball and now we are on the march back - they are fucking raging at the outcome.

Where do you lot get the idea that there is any degree of envy involved. There's freedom of choice as far as supporting football team goes. If anyone is envious they just need to buy a new scarf.

ENVY Verb:Desire to have a quality, possession, or other attribute belonging to (someone else): "he envied tall people"; "I envy Jane her happiness".

If I desired have the qualities of the stereotypical Sevco fan I'd walk down street in a top which is too tight singing about battles from yesteryear. I've already watched my club die and be reborn as something else then fight it's way through the senior Scottish leagues. What else is there to be envious of?

Edited October 29, 2012 by stonedsailor

[Claymores]

Bendy at his hysterical best .. roll on the tainted title stripping, hefty fine, club repaying the stolen prize money .

Roll up the trouser leg, practice that 'special' handshake and get Ready to wave 500 smackers bye-bye

[SS-18 ICBM]

Once again we see the real reason for this thread - the diddy clubbers and plastics wanted is dead. We refused to play ball and now we are on the march back - they are fucking raging at the outcome.

Rangers FC (IA) are defunct, having ceased to play football during the summer by virtue of selling off all of the clubs assets to pay a tiny percentage of the debts that the club owed its creditors, as the club went bust owing approximately £135million, including cheating the British public out of more than £94million.

Your new "diddy" club, the 'The Rangers FC', formerly known as Sevco Scotland Ltd., are very much alive, having been only formed on the 29th of May 2012.

Of course, for how much longer remains to be seen...

In the meantime the only ragers continue to be you and your idiotic friends who watched your old club die.

[stonedsailor]

Roll up the trouser leg, practice that 'special' handshake and get Ready to wave 500 smackers bye-bye

To be fair that's a bad example a picture to taunt Sevco fans with. The freemasons accept any God believing male over the age of 21(unless the son a mason then 18 the lower age requirement). They are undoubtedly a sexist organisation but do not discriminate against specific religions, unless you count atheism.

The catholic church on the other hand will condemn you to hell for being mason.

Bringing the masons into the debate is as bigoted as linking the catholic church to Celtic and an example of how Scottish football needs to drop the narrow mindedness before it can progress.

Edited October 29, 2012 by stonedsailor