Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[TheLip69]

You have to be taking the piss.

There's been no story that's taken up more paper/radio/tv in Scotland in my life other than wars.

Vodafone and the £6 billions they didn't cough up didn't attract anywhere near the attention The Rangers story has and those sums dwarf the liability we might have. I say might, of course, because we still don't know what the final outcome is as yet.

Nonsense, the Vodafone story has been all over the Natioonal press, Rangers has barely merited a mention in England. I have had to order a Scottish newspaper down here, or browse the Internet to get the story about Rangers liquidation. There is very little interest shown down here.

[kiddy]

They're dead.

& here's to the tribute act following suit ASAP.

[FinnesTON]

No I will not participate in the SNP's nation breaking plans. I'm not interested in ever tinier divisions of people along border's fabricated for the benefit of a few.

We need more unity, not less of it.

As an example - the Orcadians have indicated they wish to remain in the UK should the SNP come to power. What next? A return to the Kingdom of Strathclyde?

And for what it's worth - I have no faith the Scottish based corrupticians will prove any more trustworthy than their Westminster counterparts. There is of course lots of evidence to suggest they are identical in many respects.

So you'll be all for a federal Europe with no nationhood

If the limits placed on the ruling elite goes from 60million to 5 million. The vote of the individual therefore their opinion holds greater significance. The only thing stopping that is individual apathy.

Some don't like change you'll know all those folk who go marching to celebrate battles for feck knows when. Dinosaurs

If Salmond wins independence then its day one , no continuation his and everyone else's political loyalties start again, a void for all parties. Nothing says that he will remain in power .

[kiddy]

You have to be taking the piss.

There's been no story that's taken up more paper/radio/tv in Scotland in my life other than wars.

Vodafone and the £6 billions they didn't cough up didn't attract anywhere near the attention The Rangers story has and those sums dwarf the liability we might have. I say might, of course, because we still don't know what the final outcome is as yet.

Perhaps if the Admin's had taken normal stance & gone along the same route as Comet, they'd have been shown more sympathy.

Instead it's been a rip snorter of a display of slight of hand, involving deception, misdirection & simulation, with a switch thrown in.

Penn & Teller would be proud.

Edited November 1, 2012 by kiddy

[thelegendthatis]

If BDO do not return a greater sum than was available via the CVA offer, I'm sure you'll rage at HMRC for throwing away what was on the table for the tax payer.

Doubt if many people really care about the monies recovered. as long as BDO dig up the evidence that will ensure convictions.

It will take time as the suspects are confirmed duckers and divers, and are well practised in the skill.

Would hate to see the genuine guilty ones not being fingered, while the patsies like John Greig end up with a conviction and deemed to not a fit and proper person to hold office in a company (or charity).

[thelegendthatis]

JP Morgan UK Staff Hit By Offshore Tax Demand

JP Morgan staff are hit with an HMRC ultimatum - pay tax on "disguised remuneration" sent to Jersey or risk legal action.

This means that Billy Dodds, Souness, Cambell Ogilvie and our good friend David Murray will be getting a brown envelope through the post. From HMRC that is.

[Bearwithme]

Perhaps if the Admin's had taken normal stance & gone along the same route as Comet, they'd have been shown more sympathy.

Instead it's been a rip snorter of a display of slight of hand, involving deception, misdirection & simulation, with a switch thrown in.

Penn & Teller would be proud.

What in particular about Comet are you referring to?

[thelegendthatis]

This THREAD is in the RANGERS section of the forum and I will speak about what the hell i like

I certainly will not be dictated to by some jumped up little CELTIC supporter who hides behind the other tag because he wants the diddy clubbers support

You sir are as transparent as they come

I can assure you, I am no Celtic supporter.

What I find odd is that you Tedi and your sidekicks give us big licks about the Masonic Order a few pages back. And then when I put a Masonic coded phrase in one of my posts none of you responded. Are you or aren't you? Or do you just like talking about it?

[Bairnforever1992]

This means that Billy Dodds, Souness, Campbell Ogilvie and our good friend David Murray will be getting a brown envelope through the post. From HMRC that is.

Tee Hee they'll be sent to jail.

[FinnesTON]

Doubt if many people really care about the monies recovered. as long as BDO dig up the evidence that will ensure convictions.

It will take time as the suspects are confirmed duckers and divers, and are well practised in the skill.

Would hate to see the genuine guilty ones not being fingered, while the patsies like John Greig end up with a conviction and deemed to not a fit and proper person to hold office in a company (or charity).

I'd argue he isin't a fit and proper person as he allowed this to go on while saying nothing, if Greig had put his head up , ok he'd have been classed as a tarrier by some but those with multiple brain cells would have been able to see the plight of the club.

He more than anyone knew the importance of the club to so many, he had a chance of revealing the truth but disappeared why is he as guilty as the rest .

[FinnesTON]

Tee Hee they'll be sent to jail.

Would imagine HMRC setting a date then penalties would be incurred then court action for non payment of tax. Those who pay the demands will probably not even be made public , it will be only those that require legal action that we will hear about.

[scoobles]

Penn & Teller would be proud

Maybe Penn & Teller are another couple of the super secret consortium of investors. They probably go to all the games but we can't see them because of all the smoke n mirrors that were left behind.

Sleight of hand sounds familiar as well and I don't mean in a Saville way

[Bairnforever1992]

[thelegendthatis]

You are wrong, not me

If you want to speak about masonic stuff on an internet forum then that is up to you, I will refrain

and you have tic supporter written all over you I am sure that I am not the only one to see it

tic = anyone who is not a loyal(ist) fanatic about all things blue?

Presume you must live in darkest Ayrshire? Try getting out more, meet some new friends http://www.newfriends4u.com/guide/make_internet_friends.html

[thelegendthatis]

Would imagine HMRC setting a date then penalties would be incurred then court action for non payment of tax. Those who pay the demands will probably not even be made public , it will be only those that require legal action that we will hear about.

Or if they can't pay or can't agree a schedule with HMRC.

I believe some of the lucky EBT recipients have not invested their money as wisely as they should have. So getting their hands on the readies might be a problem. So a personal bankruptcy or two may well result.

Edited November 1, 2012 by thelegendthatis

[thelegendthatis]

Presumably written by a 'tic'

http://www.thecoplandroad.org/

[bennett]

You lads have slowed down if you haven't posted the latest part of saga.

Not good enough.

[Bairnforever1992]

You lads have slowed down if you haven't posted the latest part of saga.

Not good enough.

Yet more trouble ahead from your dead club.

Hint; it's on The Times Rangers in fresh trouble as club's key shareholder faces tax inquiry. Arif Naviq?

Criminal investigations have been launched into tax schemes sold by a key shareholder in Rangers Football Club, The Times has learnt.

Richard Hughes, the co-founder of Zeus Capital, the finance company at the centre of the Rangers takeover, also set up Zeus Partners, which created and marketed a £134 million film investment scheme that HM Revenue & Customs suspects may be part of an illegal effort to generate millions of pounds in tax relief.

The Revenue is understood to be investigating 17 companies set up by Zeus Partners. Criminal investigations by HMRC are reserved for the most serious cases of suspected illegality including those where “only a criminal sanction is appropriate”.

Mr Hughes, who has more than two million shares in Rangers, a stake of 6.8 per cent, played a pivotal role in the purchase of the Glasgow club after it went into administration in February. The collapse came after Rangers’ previous owners became embroiled in disputes with the Revenue. The club has been beset by tax problems that led to the new Rangers, who play at Ibrox Stadium, being forced to start from the fourth tier of Scottish football this season.

The Revenue claims to be owed an estimated £73 million in tax and penalties after the club used a tax avoidance scheme to pay its players for nearly a decade. Rangers went into administration over a separate tax problem, when Craig Whyte, who bought it last year, failed to pay an £18 million PAYE bill.

When Zeus Capital and the businessman Charles Green bought the club for £5.5 million in June, they presented their consortium of investors as a “new beginning”. But a year before the acquisition, Revenue officials raided premises associated with Zeus Partners, two sources told The Times, as well as offices of Seven Arts Entertainment, the US film company that was counterparty to the deal. Neither Zeus Partners nor HMRC commented on the alleged raid.

“They showed up, knocked on the door, and said, ‘We want to come and look at the records’,” one person said of the Seven Arts raid. “They took everything under the sun.”

Mr Hughes, who has one of the biggest shareholdings in Rangers, founded Zeus Partners as an offshoot of Zeus Capital, in 2006. It was set up so wealthy individuals could access “returns that Zeus Capital has been achieving for its corporate clients”. Two other partners run the day-to-day business, although one said that Mr Hughes retained an “active role”.

Mr Hughes stands to make millions of pounds when Rangers floats on the stockmarket before Christmas. Three other Zeus Capital executives, who do not work at Zeus Partners, own stakes in the club, making the finance house collectively its largest owner. There is no evidence that Zeus Capital marketed schemes similar to those offered by Zeus Partners. The Revenue is not investigating Zeus Capital, the company involved in the Rangers takeover.

Zeus Partners’ controversial film deal attracted about 165 high-net worth individuals including Hugh Sloane, the hedge-fund mogul and Tory donor, and Laurie McIlwee, chief finance officer of Tesco. Individual investors are not being investigated by HMRC, however.

Each investor was offered a “high-risk film production” deal to buy a total of eight new films and some library content from Seven Arts.

The deal was structured so that, in the event that the films were “blockbusters”, the investors would double their money. If they did badly, the investment would be largely wiped out and the cost could be written off against the investors’ other income.

Films purchased from Seven Arts included Knife Edge, a 2009 British thriller starring Hugh Bonneville and Tamsin Egerton, The Winter Queen, starring Milla Jovovich, and Autopsy, a horror film directed by Adam Gierasch.

None appears to have achieved anywhere close to the “blockbuster” level that would have generated profit. American Summer made only $2,269, according to Box Office Mojo. Deal, a 2008 film starring Burt Reynolds, is said to have made $61,625.

A year after signing the deal in May 2008, Zeus Partners declared that each of the 17 companies was worthless, their accounts show, enabling investors to claim tax relief.

At the time, however, a number of films had yet to be released. One, The Winter Queen, had not been made. “One of the key questions is how would the investors have known the stock was worthless as early as 2009, when some of the titles had yet to be released,” a person close to Seven Arts said.

Up to 84 per cent of an investor’s contribution was financed by a loan from Seven Arts. The loan was secured against the companies, so investors were not personally liable if films failed.

An investor who put in £160,000 could borrow about £840,000 and claim tax relief on the full £1 million without being liable to pay back the loan. For a high-net-worth investor the tax relief would be between £400,000 and £500,000.

Rebus Investment Solutions, a company representing several disgruntled Zeus investors, said their clients had been advised that the film deal was a “win-win scenario”. “The deal was based on the notion that, if the films were successful, investors would see huge returns and, if they were unsuccessful, they would be able to claim tax relief on the losses,” a spokesman said. “Such a bullish view failed to take into account the significant risks, including potential challenges by HMRC.”

A Rangers spokesman said yesterday that Mr Hughes was “one of a number of minority investors” and had “no involvement in the management of the club”, and that Rangers had “no business relationship with Zeus Capital”.

However, in June, Zeus Capital said that it “worked in conjunction with Charles Green to complete the £5.5 million acquisition of Rangers”. In the same month, Zeus Capital was described by Malcolm Murray, the new chairman, as “the primary advisers” on the Rangers deal.

Mr Hughes is understood to believe that the focus of the criminal investigation is on Seven Arts, not Zeus Partners. He denied that the film investments could be illegal or amounted to tax avoidance. The investments had been approved by qualified accountants before being marketed. He also said that he had not been contacted by HMRC in relation to the film investigation since it began about 18 months ago.

A spokesman for Zeus Partners said: “Zeus Partners provided a number of high-risk investment opportunities, backing highly successful entrepreneurs with a proven track record across a number of sectors. Individual investors had the option of claiming HMRC statutory relief in the event that the investments were unsuccessful. We are aware that there is an HMRC investigation into these and other investments under way at this time and Zeus Partners is providing its full co-operation to HMRC.”

Seven Arts strongly denied claims that it, rather than Zeus, was the focus of the Revenue investigation. Peter Hoffman, chief executive of Seven Arts, said: “There was nothing fraudulent about the transaction, it was perfectly valid. These were real movies we were intending to make money on.”

Mr Sloane said he had not claimed for tax relief on the Seven Arts investment. Mr McIlwee and the Revenue both declined to comment.

End for sevco.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Bairnforever1992

[Umbungo1874]

You lads have slowed down if you haven't posted the latest part of saga.

Not good enough.

@rangerstaxcase RTC Exclusive: Charles Green is the subject a new tax inquiry- separate from the Zeus investigation.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Umbungo1874

[ScottR96]

Will they ever learn?