~~~ Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 "It's all a big t*mmy conspiracy, so it is" Funny how this phrase has disappeared from the rangers supporters vocabulary, to be replaced by: "You can't argue with the commission". What happened to the impartial tic lawyer? Charles Green did say this was a kangaroo court, a Mickey Mouse operation, the verdict was preordained and title-stripping was being aggressively pursued by Rangers' enemies within the SPL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 The scheme wasn't hidden. It was disclosed in the company's accounts which were submitted to the SFA/SPL. Other information wasn't handed over to the SFA/SPL in order to protect the company's tax position. The company has been fined for that. LNS has made it pretty clear this wasn't an "admin error" by the Rangers board. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Well, guess it's my turn to analyse this "news" Deliberately waited for the predictable infestation of irregular contributors bringing their "in depth" responses to the bit of the judgement they approve of to subside Regardless of personally held opinions about this particular chapter of Rangers (L), the judgement does appear rather odd. The fine is akin to chucking a pebble into a massive pile of boulders about to be skipped. As it all currently stands.... It's ok to have dual contracts, the use of EBT's is fine as well. Simply changing your clubs' ownership allows legitimate dumping of debt whilst preserving all your previous attainments and references. ? Thats right isn't it? Is it?? I've mentioned before the "influence" that businessmen have brought to the game and, for me at least, there is little surprise at the outcomes to date. The courts are full of hungry creditors being shafted by insolvent companies without a care in the world, safe in the knowledge that, after a short period, they'll do it again under a different name. Because they can. When football and business got into bed together these outcomes were sadly inevitable. The fools in charge of our game (even before the present idiots) we're no match for the business sharks and their corporate lawyers infesting Clubs at the top table. But, seeing as the clubs at the top had their men in place at the SFA, all was cosy. It is debatable whether our game had any credible reputation to lose over this shambles, but, if the banks are now toying with "negative interest rates", we're definitely in the red for credibility reserves. The seedy side of sharp, borderline legal and morally repugnant business practice has been exposed to an audience not used to seeing such outright brazeness. Some seem disturbingly ok with it but I will always point out it's moralistic shortcomings, regardless of the audience. Any fanbase willing to condone or even ignore this type of behaviour in the name of sport or winning at any cost is morally bankrupt. Indeed, the waters have never been murkier. The worst thing to come out of this sorry mess is this whole club/ company separation argument. Basically a club can run up as much debt as it wants as its not anything to do with the club. It's immune from liquidation. Also if my club has broken rules when it was under a different ownership than it is currently then it isn't to blame for its previous wrongdoings because it has different owners 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Jack D Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 It's a funny world is Scottish Football. I'm still struggling for this verdict to sink in however, reading the report thoroughly last night I certainly understand LNS logic. His report, for me, is a damning indictment of the SFA's rules. Rangers fans are proving that nothing matters to them as long as club continuity is recognised and titles aren't stripped. Despite being liquidated and being found guilty of not disclosing all payments to players as per SFA rules, the club continues in the eyes of the authorities and all titles have been kept as there was "no competitive advantage" as the players were all registered. As a diddy club fan, this reality is difficult to accept as we know it wouldn't have been the case for us. Rangers fans are jubilant, despite the guilty verdict. I accept the findings of LNS as he is the law but, yet again in this saga, Rangers and their supporters are showing the rest of the game up here absolutely zero respect. The "Newco when it suits" attitude is particularly galling in that all the good things with liquidation are accepted and the bad things are left with the oldco. Unfortunately for the rest of us we just have to suck it up as the Authorities are clearly happy for this or their regulations and laws are not capable of doing anything about it. The £250k fine is one of the highest (if not the highest) ever dished out by the SFA and shows the extent of the deception but is totally symbolic as New Rangers won't be paying it. Again Rangers fans, rather than being embarrassed at this, think its great that they have dodged their responsibility and their club and titles are intact. The ruling yesterday further deteriorated my interest in Scottish Football. I'm not going to say I'll never go to another game because I probably will but the incompetence of the overseeing organisations means that it will move further down my priority list for what to spend my time/ cash on during my precious free time. I want to watch competetive sport, not dodgy, morally corrupt businesses fighting it out over technicalities in the rulebook. This, coupled with the deterioration of sporting integrity on the pitch (diving etc) are not what I want to watch. I'm even less interested in hearing about what the pope or catholic priests are up to.... I think the only thing that will renew my interest in the professional game is if the Old Firm were to secure a move elsewhere. At this point in time, it is clear to me that they are all that matter to the footballing authorities in Scotland and the rest of us are simply here as "Harlem Globetrotter opposition". I expect accusations of seethe, they may have been warranted yesterday. Today I've definitely moved on to despair. The game I love is currently a bogey. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 No incorrectly registered players is here to stay, this means we were not breaking the player registration rules thus no unfair advantage was sought or gained on the field. No HMRC appeal can ever change these facts. If yous lose the appeal it means your club has used an illegal tax avoidance system to have more money than it would've had otherwise. Givingthe company that owns the club a financial advantage translates to an advantage on the park. If it does turn out to be a landslide in favour of Hector, nimmo smith will look like a tit and his judgement will be laughable 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribzanelli Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Again Rangers fans, rather than being embarrassed at this, think its great that they have dodged their responsibility and their club and titles are intact. I think perhaps the most sickening thing to come out of this entire episode is to see Rangers fans celebrating like a kiddy fiddler who gets off with it on the basis that his computer which is choc-full of porn was seized under a warrant which had a spelling mistake on it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngsy Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) I see that the good old impervious-to-reality attitude is being adopted, and why not? It'll work for as long as tomorrow's headlines, which is all the time it needs to. Out in the real world, the Commission found you guilty as sin of conspiring to break the rules or, as it's colloquially known, cheating. You're cheats. You've been branded cheats by an independent Commission which, you'll remember, you've spent the day lauding as fountains of wisdom and moral clarity. And these guys, these exemplars of probity, said it loud and proud - Rangers cheated. Now, you seem to be confusing this verdict with one of the Commission's more bizarre findings - that under the rules as they stand, you can't be punished for that cheating via the removal of titles. That doesn't mean you didn't cheat. It means you did cheat, but that the Commission can't apply the maximum sentence, because of a legal technicality. For all the GIRUY about hurting and so on, you know what you look like today? A bunch of scrawny, thieving wee scrotes who have got off on a technicality, giving the finger to the photographer from the Sun. And that always looks great in the papers, doesn't it? You're coming across as being unable to accept the findings of this commission for one that likes to quote so much about the law. Perhaps you should refer to the conclusion of paragraph 88 which states in the conclusion"But in the kind of situation that we are dealing with here we are satisfied that the registration of the specified players with the SPL was valid from the outset,and accordingly that they were eligible to play in official matches. There was no breach of rule D1.11". Then after you read that paragraph read paragraph 89; "For these reasons we are not satisfied that any breach of rules has been established in terms of issue 3©,taken in conjunction with the concluding words of issue 3(b) quoted above. This is an important finding,as it means that there was no instance shown of Rangers F.C. fielding an ineligible player". That tells you,me and anyone else with an interest in this that Rangers F.C. have been cleared of playing ineligible players to gain a sporting advantage on the field of play,that is after all what this has all been about. Carry on with your nonsensical anologies and showing your undoubted reluctance to accept these findings,as for myself i'll just sit back from now on and enjoy the tirade and rage coming from many. Edited March 1, 2013 by youngsy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I think perhaps the most sickening thing to come out of this entire episode is to see Rangers fans celebrating like a kiddy fiddler who gets off with it on the basis that his computer which is choc-full of porn was seized under a warrant which had a spelling mistake on it. You can't compare anything going on in football with child abuse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearwithme Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Indeed, the waters have never been murkier. The worst thing to come out of this sorry mess is this whole club/ company separation argument. Basically a club can run up as much debt as it wants as its not anything to do with the club. It's immune from liquidation. Also if my club has broken rules when it was under a different ownership than it is currently then it isn't to blame for its previous wrongdoings because it has different owners No-one said the club could not be punished. It just wasn't in this case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngsy Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I think perhaps the most sickening thing to come out of this entire episode is to see Rangers fans celebrating like a kiddy fiddler who gets off with it on the basis that his computer which is choc-full of porn was seized under a warrant which had a spelling mistake on it. Really you have just posted the biggest pile of shite about this whole topic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Well, that's another long night of web-free escort work done - Damn you, NHS! Nice to see all the Orcs who fucked off for months at a time - and some who turned up late to the party - concerned about my whereabouts. Especially when it matters not a f**k to me if any of them are still breathing. I posted yesterday, and repeat today, that I am not surprised at the verdict. In common with other posters, I am amazed at the reaction of the rangers supporters, and the clubs' representatives. They were, let's not forget, found guilty of premeditated and prolonged breaking of the rules of the game. That's right, guilty. This confirms them as cheats. I also stated yesterday, pre-announcement I might add, that the stripping of titles was close to an irrelevance. The sentence was secondary, the finding of guilt is enough for me. Other than those involved in a sectarian pissing contest, what happened to those titles didn't matter. My team is still one ahead of ICBINR in that respect, and will be for some years to come. The whole "continuation" malarkey continues to build connections between the two clubs - handy for Charlie that all the share money's in a holding company, eh? Lots more twists and turns to come, I feel. The one thing that yesterday showed was not that rangers were in anyway innocent or that they have been "attacked" in any way. It was that, from just stopping tax payments to selecting their own administrators, from being allowed a say in whether the new club could enter the SPL, to that new club being shoehorned into D3 above honest clubs, to being allocated different officials to every other D3 team, to not starting their signing ban until it suited them (among other events); rangers have been treated as a special case, and treated with as much favour as the powers that be could get away with. That fucking stinks. Scottish Football finally signed its own death warrant yesterday. As I said yesterday, Killie will always be my team and I love them dearly - but how can we honestly watch a "product" which is geared simply to two teams? It's never happened to me, but I can only imagine how fans of Third Lanark or Airdrieonians especially must feel, watching this circus. Cheats Then, Cheats Now, Scum Forever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) No-one said the club could not be punished. It just wasn't in this case.It's was a football commission. Set up to investigate the wrong doings of a football club. A club did get punished but they are no longer with us now. Don't want to get into that argument because its been done to death. Edited March 1, 2013 by AUFC90 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 You're coming across as being unable to accept the findings of this commission for one that likes to quote so much about the law. Perhaps you should refer to the conclusion of paragraph 88 which states in the conclusion"But in the kind of situation that we are dealid with here we are satisfied that the registration of the specified players with the SPL was valid from the outset,and accordingly that they were eligible to play in official matches. There was no breach of rule D1.11". Then after you read that paragraph read paragraph 89; "For these reasons we are not satisfied that any breach of rules has been established in terms of issue 3©,taken in conjunction with the concluding words of issue 3(b) quoted above. This is an important finding,as it means that there was no instance shown of Rangers F.C. fielding an ineligible player". That tells you,me and anyone else with an interest in this that Rangers F.C. have been cleared of playing ineligible players to gain a sporting advantage on the field of play,that is after all what this has all been about. Carry on with your nonsensical anologies and showing your undoubted reluctance to accept these findings,as for myself i'll just sit back from now on and enjoy the tirade and rage coming from many. If you can explain to me why a fine was imposed when the club was innocent, I'll accept (with bad grace, but still) all the metaphorical jizzfest of the last few hours. They were found to have broken rules with premeditation and over a prolonged period. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 You can't compare anything going on in football with child abuse. The offence may seem distasteful, but the analogy stands. OJ, Michael Jackson, Kevan Thakrar, rangers. Quite a fucking list. I quite agree that mention of child abuse has no place on a football forum - let's hope that ALL posters take the hint.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 tried listening to the radio clyde phone in last night, was difficult to hear over Andy Walkers tears though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngsy Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 If you can explain to me why a fine was imposed when the club was innocent, I'll accept (with bad grace, but still) all the metaphorical jizzfest of the last few hours. They were found to have broken rules with premeditation and over a prolonged period. Was there any finding of guilt in fielding ineligible players to seek an advantage on the field of play? After all as i've said that is what this was really all about,i accept the fine for administration procedures not being applied correctly and rules being broken under that premise but now i would like a straight answer to my question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearwithme Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 It's was a football commission. Set up to investigate the wrong doings of a football club. A club did get punished but they are no longer with us now. Don't want to get into that argument because its been done to death. The commission themselves say otherwise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Was there any finding of guilt in fielding ineligible players to seek an advantage on the field of play? After all as i've said that is what this was really all about,i accept the fine for administration procedures not being applied correctly and rules being broken under that premise but now i would like a straight answer to my question. Leaving aside my own opinions about the process and personnel involved in this whole sorry saga (and I mean all the way back to the beginning of the century). There was no finding of guilt on eligibility of players. There was a finding of guilt on breaking the rule over a long period of time, in a premeditated fashion. They cheated. That is what contravention of rules means. Hence the guilty verdict. Hence the "fine". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bendarroch Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 The offence may seem distasteful, but the analogy stands. OJ, Michael Jackson, Kevan Thakrar, rangers. Quite a fucking list. I quite agree that mention of child abuse has no place on a football forum - let's hope that ALL posters take the hint.... Your hypocrisy is breathtaking. No mention of child abuse you say - just after you share a list naming Michael Jackson? Complete, two-faced WKR. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 The commission themselves say otherwise. Maybe they did. it will be the first time that I know of of a company getting fined from the authorities and not the club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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