Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Fotbawmad]

preferential

Not fishing in the slightest but just interested in opinion of Rangers fans.

When Airdrieonions were liquidated a "newCo" by the name of Airdrie United was set up straight away. Does this mean the club continued just like yourself?

Despite a lot of rangers fans opinions that they only went to the third because nobody liked you I have to disagree. Airdrie were given no consideration to come straight into the first again (which we had narrowly failed to win) but were put into a vote for entry to division 3 which Gretna won! Surely THAT is nobody liking you? Also begs the question why was there not a vote for other clubs option against rangers?

Airdrie United took the only root possible and bought Clydebank's place (yes I see it as their place and not their club). In my opinion this makes us still Airdrieonions and now, thanks to rule changes in Scottish football..., we have our original name back.

Fans of other clubs still cynically call us clydebank or a new club etc but when you lot roll into Airdrie in August will your opinion be that you are playing new Airdrie, clydebank or just Airdrieonions of old??

Seeking a clear view on this from Rangers fans. Now third thread my point has been made. Are Rangers fans afraid to accept how rules were changed for you when faced with facts of the club who were liquidated before you? Opinions...?

TBF Clydebank is exactly the type of club no one wants, much like East Stirlingshire now. I'm pretty sure the reason you got rejected was because chairman behind the scenes said you can buy Clydebank's share. Rangers fans were angry, because they didn't get the preferential they thought they were entitled to. If there fans started begging other teams to let them in. Instead of the old and tired approach of using threats and intimidation. Then more would have been sympathetic towards there cause, but it wouldn't have stopped there inevitbale entry in the bottom tier.

[Mybitchunderprotest]

When Airdrieonions were liquidated

In my opinion this makes us still Airdrieonions

just Airdrieonions of old??

Opinions...?

It's Airdrieonians, it's got 2 "A"s in it. Not onions but oniAns.

It's even spelt out on the badge.

[Ken Fitlike]

It's Airdrieonians, it's got 2 "A"s in it. Not onions but oniAns.

It's even spelt out on the badge.

The Airdrie Onions is a fantastic club name.

(acknowledging this is not relevant to the BRALT, or even the BRIALT)

[No8.]

When Airdrieonions were liquidated a "newCo" by the name of Airdrie United was set up straight away. Does this mean the club continued just like yourself?

Despite a lot of rangers fans opinions that they only went to the third because nobody liked you I have to disagree. Airdrie were given no consideration to come straight into the first again (which we had narrowly failed to win) but were put into a vote for entry to division 3 which Gretna won! Surely THAT is nobody liking you? Also begs the question why was there not a vote for other clubs option against rangers?

Airdrie United took the only root possible and bought Clydebank's place (yes I see it as their place and not their club). In my opinion this makes us still Airdrieonions and now, thanks to rule changes in Scottish football..., we have our original name back.

Fans of other clubs still cynically call us clydebank or a new club etc but when you lot roll into Airdrie in August will your opinion be that you are playing new Airdrie, clydebank or just Airdrieonions of old??

Seeking a clear view on this from Rangers fans. Now third thread my point has been made. Are Rangers fans afraid to accept how rules were changed for you when faced with facts of the club who were liquidated before you? Opinions...?

There was no vote this time as team/s that would be top of that list ... Spartans..made it publicly known they would be wasting their time and more importantly their money in a bid they would have no chance of winning. Why does this question keep coming up when the answer is as simple as that.. Why do Ps & Ds want non league clubs to throw away their money on this pointless argument. If another club such as Cove Rangers made it known they were going to mount a rival bid there is every chance there would have been a vote that Rangers would have won out of the park.

Airdrie were given the chance to reapply and it was put to a vote. League clubs believed (wrongly) that Gretna would be better for the SFL. Not that nobody liked you just they thought Gretna were a better option.

Buying Clydebank was not the only option. If there was a pyramid system in place then your club could have started at the bottom. Of course your club being a member of the then SFL have continually denied teams such as Cove and Spartans the right to play in the SFL by keeping it a closed shop.

I am glad you have your name back. TBH it was always Airdrie to me and still is and hopefully once we have a fair pyramid system back in place Clydebank will gain promotion. They are after all the team that first gave Davie Cooper his chance in the game.

As a Rangers supporter i want/ed no special treatment. I knew that clubs would be put under pressure by Sky TV to keep us alive but you accept the TV money you have to give them an input...Kick Off times this season will be a nightmare for example. Unfortunately for Scottish football i don't think you will have to wait too long to see if other clubs will be treated in the same way.

I have no idea but did Airdrie United have to pay the oldcos footballing debts in full while footballing debt owed to the oldco were withheld? Were Airdrie United handed a player registration ban for their first season back? I take it the answer to both questions will be yes..after all we ant every club to be treated in the same way after liquidation

[Monkey Tennis]

There was no vote because no other clubs were given the option to apply. Instead, the authorities attempted to shoehorn Rangers into the league structure as high as possible, only failing when the fans of every other club protested.

That was part of the reason I became confused as to why many Rangers fans insisted that people were kicking them while they were down and that the SFA/SPL were biased against them. Those organisations did everything they could to insert Rangers as high as they could.

I strongly suspect that if St Johnstone or Kilmarnock or St Mirren went the same way, there would be no such attempts by the SFA to have any subsequent newcos leapfrog other clubs, simply because the money these clubs bring in is significantly less than Rangers.

That's where the sporting integrity issue came into play. It simply wasn't right to have a newco Rangers carry on in the SPL, or even start in SFL1 as if nothing had happened, the same way I would be against it if/when the same thing happened to Kilmarnock. I think some of the Rangers fans on P&B have acknowledged this.

Clubs shouldn't be given preferential treatment because they are more financially viable to their league authorities, despite what Craig Burley and Gordon Strachan say. Try telling a Stirling Albion fan that his club is less important to him than Rangers is to an Ibrox regular.

There are reasons, some less than wholesome, why Celtic and Rangers are many times bigger that any other club in Scotland. Other clubs shouldn't be treated any less favourably simply because their fanbase has been plundered by the Glasgow duo.

There should have been an application process, open to any clubs wishing to join SFL3. Rangers would have probably still won, but at least the chance would have been there for others, should they have wished. Football is based on competition. There will always be an imbalance but the authorities have a duty to ensure the playing field is as level as possible. I think they failed on this occasion.

Spot on.

[Hansolo]

 

You can take yer own view on Airdrie, Airdrieonians or whatever you want to call them, however a good start would be the ability to spell your own clubs name, once could have been described as a typo, twice as criminal but 3 times?.

Oh dear. Well I am sure you also have a "smart" phone with a habit of spellchecker and predicting for itself. Unfortunately in this case it choose to change one letter in the word and kept it in its memory. Shame on me for thinking what I wrote would be there and at a glance not recognising.

Was warned of pedants picking up errors as their first point of comeback. Shall I join in now? I take it "yer" is your? Also a bit out of breath reading your opening gambit. Think you're missing a couple of full stops. Also later in your post you refer to your own team as "Rangers" when surely you meant Rangers International? Would happily accept Inter for short.

Wow I feel like such a d!ck pointing out errors. You must feel that way every day!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Pie & Bovril mobile app

[Ken Fitlike]

Oh dear. Well I am sure you also have a "smart" phone with a habit of spellchecker and predicting for itself. Unfortunately in this case it choose to change one letter in the word and kept it in its memory. Shame on me for thinking what I wrote would be there and at a glance not recognising.

Was warned of pedants picking up errors as their first point of comeback. Shall I join in now? I take it "yer" is your? Also a bit out of breath reading your opening gambit. Think you're missing a couple of full stops. Also later in your post you refer to your own team as "Rangers" when surely you meant Rangers International? Would happily accept Inter for short.

Wow I feel like such a d!ck pointing out errors. You must feel that way every day!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Pie & Bovril mobile app

now you've done it!

Tedi will task his faithful pet rabid mangy mongrel Bennett to shadow you and reply to every post you make with exasperating, irrelevant, childish,snarky pish.

Do you mind if I use the Airdrie Onions FC line in future?

[Hansolo]

 

 

Do you mind if I use the Airdrie Onions FC line in future? 

Haha not at all!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Pie & Bovril mobile app

[Monkey Tennis]

There was no vote this time as team/s that would be top of that list ... Spartans..made it publicly known they would be wasting their time and more importantly their money in a bid they would have no chance of winning. Why does this question keep coming up when the answer is as simple as that.. Why do Ps & Ds want non league clubs to throw away their money on this pointless argument. If another club such as Cove Rangers made it known they were going to mount a rival bid there is every chance there would have been a vote that Rangers would have won out of the park.

Airdrie were given the chance to reapply and it was put to a vote. League clubs believed (wrongly) that Gretna would be better for the SFL. Not that nobody liked you just they thought Gretna were a better option.

Buying Clydebank was not the only option. If there was a pyramid system in place then your club could have started at the bottom. Of course your club being a member of the then SFL have continually denied teams such as Cove and Spartans the right to play in the SFL by keeping it a closed shop.

I am glad you have your name back. TBH it was always Airdrie to me and still is and hopefully once we have a fair pyramid system back in place Clydebank will gain promotion. They are after all the team that first gave Davie Cooper his chance in the game.

As a Rangers supporter i want/ed no special treatment. I knew that clubs would be put under pressure by Sky TV to keep us alive but you accept the TV money you have to give them an input...Kick Off times this season will be a nightmare for example. Unfortunately for Scottish football i don't think you will have to wait too long to see if other clubs will be treated in the same way.

I have no idea but did Airdrie United have to pay the oldcos footballing debts in full while footballing debt owed to the oldco were withheld? Were Airdrie United handed a player registration ban for their first season back? I take it the answer to both questions will be yes..after all we ant every club to be treated in the same way after liquidation

That's a largely fair post.

On the subject of others applying when Oldco went tits up, was there a formal invitation to interested parties to apply? I get what you're saying about nobody else expressing an interest, but it would in my view, have been in the interests of the process if an open invitation had gone out. Perhaps it did, but I'm not aware of it having happened. Had it done so, the result would doubtless have been the same (correctly IMO), but it would have felt and looked better for everyone.

The Airdrie example is interesting. Obviously, it's far from identical, but some parallels exist. To be honest, I'm pretty uncomfortable about what happened to Clydebank in all of this. I don't accept the argument that says they deserved no better.

Onto the idea that Airdrie Utd weren't penalised with embargoes or required to settle old debt, I think the difference here is that continuation was much more clearly curtailed. The team from Airdrie cropped up with a new name and a new badge. They had taken someone else's share, rather than inherited their own by a convoluted process. I'm not defending this as a more moral course of action, but it goes some way to explaining these differences.

Indeed the argument over continuation has, I understand, raged within the Airdrie support. There has been debate, with many Airdrie fans (among them, laughably, Traynor at the time), considering that the club they supported was dead. This is evidenced by how much smaller the new club is than the old. With Rangers though, it's only Ps & Ds who claim there's been an effective death, with pretty much every Rangers fan insisting otherwise.

And although it's not strictly relevant, throw in Murray's comments about Airdrie and you can understand further why so many in Scotland were pleased to see Rangers' ship sink.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Monkey Tennis

[No8.]

MT...I am well aware that there are huge differences between the 'Onions' and Rangers but it was the 'Onions supporter' who was making the comparison.

Anyway i am off to Sheffield

[Monkey Tennis]

MT...I am well aware that there are huge differences between the 'Onions' and Rangers but it was the 'Onions supporter' who was making the comparison.

Yes, I know that, but I was attempting to answer your question about why Airdire United didn't face immediate sanctions such as registration embargoes and the requirement to settle footballing debts.

It was you who asked it.

Anyway, behave yourself in Sheffield.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Monkey Tennis

[bennett]

now you've done it!

Tedi will task his faithful pet rabid mangy mongrel Bennett to shadow you and reply to every post you make with exasperating, irrelevant, childish,snarky pish.

Do you mind if I use the Airdrie Onions FC line in future?

I reckon that atleast 3/4's of your posts are about me in some form or other

Feel the love xxx

Oh dear. Well I am sure you also have a "smart" phone with a habit of spellchecker and predicting for itself. Unfortunately in this case it choose to change one letter in the word and kept it in its memory. Shame on me for thinking what I wrote would be there and at a glance not recognising.

Wow I feel like such a d!ck pointing out errors. You must feel that way every day!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Pie & Bovril mobile app

A good workman never blames his tools

[aofjays]

A good workman never blames his tools

It's a bad workman always blames his tools. A good workman can still mess up with rubbish tools.

[bennett]

You have an insight into the eating habits of total strangers?

What a genius you must think you are!

Or is Johnny your next door neighbour?

Do tell.

This put HhellBhoy into the third Division in the intelligence stakes, and you........well, why don't you just pick up an Ivy League Degree for your insight.

So easy to get some P&D's frothing at the mouth

Very little effort is required.

[Monkey Tennis]

Fair enough on the spell checker, but your post was in some part about club names, so I think getting this correct would have shown you were at least serious and it would have also showed your initial line stating that you were not on some sort of fishing trip would have at least rung true.

Your subsequent failure to address any point and head straight for the old Rangers International thing exposes the fact you lied about your original intentions and are indeed another moron wanting to have a "its just not fair, yer deid" style rant.

Probably best you make another alias and try again.

Pretty sure he's not an alias Ted. He'd raised the question elsewhere and was pointed in this direction by, I think, Apache Don.

Why not tackle what he actually says, in the way No8 and I, among others, have done?

I know that shooting messengers is obviously very much easier, but it's less satisfactory, is it not?

[Double Jack D]

Yes, I know that, but I was attempting to answer your question about why Airdire United didn't face immediate sanctions such as registration embargoes and the requirement to settle footballing debts.

It was you who asked it.

Anyway, behave yourself in Sheffield.

I think this is the crux.

Airdrie Onions went bust just like Rangers did and tried to re-apply but were declined in preference to Gretna. Clydebank were then bought and rebranded as Airdrie United. This club never went bust, merely changed it's name therefore there was no "license transfer" "transfer embargo" or "requirement to pay oldcos fines". The history of Airdrie United is the one and same as the old Clydebank because it is the old Clydebank.

I suppose for the transferance of the Airdrie Onions history, that must have gone to Gretna, now to Annan..... that is how it works isn't it?

[Monkey Tennis]

I pretty much did, he ignored it, you ignored it, Quelle surprise.

Fair enough Ted - you'd offered an answer at the top of the page - my mistake. Hands up, apologies etc. (It really doesn't hurt to admit a mistake, I've found).

To not ignore it - hope Bennett doesn't need to remove that greenie now - at the end you say this:

"IMO there was nothing to stop any other club applying.

The SFL rules 7 and 9 were followed and applied, every club in the SFL had the power to say to no to the newco, they did not, in fact only 1 club voted against.

This all happened long before liquidation."

I think the top part's a point that's unclear. "Nothing to stop" other clubs applying doesn't necessarily mean that the opportunity existed. As I said before, in such circumstances, it would be hard to argue against Rangers still getting the nod, but a transparent process inviting clubs to apply for the vacancy would have been better IMO.

Your bit about this happening before liquidation, I genuinely don't understand. The official liquidation may have come later - indeed, I'm not certain it's fully happened yet - but surely we were talking about the Newco here, which only came into existence because Oldco couldn't operate.

[Monkey Tennis]

Clydebank pretty much ceased to exist as soon as Airdrie took them over, Airdrie Utd was much more about the spirit of Airdrieonians than it was about anything Clydebank, this was obvious given the name change years later.

To me all the talk of licenses, rule books, fines, embargo's, point deductions, yada yada means not very much, these are just reasons used to keep the yer deid, no we're no debate alive.

I actually agree with the thrust of what you're saying, but the second paragraph is simplistic.

There is a degree to which the former Airdrie ceased to be and there's also a - possibly lesser, because they were favoured - degree to which Rangers faced the same fate. I know that 'death' is an absolute term and I know that there's a preference for seeing this in absolute terms too, from either side.

I think the reality is however more subtle.

[GreenockRover]

Fair enough Ted - you'd offered an answer at the top of the page - my mistake. Hands up, apologies etc. (It really doesn't hurt to admit a mistake, I've found).

To not ignore it - hope Bennett doesn't need to remove that greenie now - at the end you say this:

"IMO there was nothing to stop any other club applying.

The SFL rules 7 and 9 were followed and applied, every club in the SFL had the power to say to no to the newco, they did not, in fact only 1 club voted against.

This all happened long before liquidation."

I think the top part's a point that's unclear. "Nothing to stop" other clubs applying doesn't necessarily mean that the opportunity existed. As I said before, in such circumstances, it would be hard to argue against Rangers still getting the nod, but a transparent process inviting clubs to apply for the vacancy would have been better IMO.

Your bit about this happening before liquidation, I genuinely don't understand. The official liquidation may have come later - indeed, I'm not certain it's fully happened yet - but surely we were talking about the Newco here, which only came into existence because Oldco couldn't operate.

There's also the time factor MT.

If you recall, the timing of Green/Ahmed/Stockbridge/Ticketus/Octopus asset purchase came pretty late in the day and there was a potentiality that the Reincarnation FC might miss the start of the season thus making continuation even harder to believe than it is now.

By discouraging an application process on the "nod and a wink" (who knows, maybe even a peculiar handshake or two?) to would be applicants, it effectively rolled out the red carpet to one of its two favorite money spinners for fear of it's own belief in the much laughed at "Armageddon" scenario.

Back bending of the calibre only seen at World Limbo Dancing competitions

[Monkey Tennis]

There's also the time factor MT.

If you recall, the timing of Green/Ahmed/Stockbridge/Ticketus/Octopus asset purchase came pretty late in the day and there was a potentiality that the Reincarnation FC might miss the start of the season thus making continuation even harder to believe than it is now.

By discouraging an application process on the "nod and a wink" (who knows, maybe even a peculiar handshake or two?) to would be applicants, it effectively rolled out the red carpet to one of its two favorite money spinners for fear of it's own belief in the much laughed at "Armageddon" scenario.

Back bending of the calibre only seen at World Limbo Dancing competitions

I'm sure you're right - time was a factor with that Brechin tie beckoning.

We certainly didn't get the transparency that guys like McCoist are so fond of though.