dave.j Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Murray bought Rangers for 6 million via a bank loan secured against rangers. It wasn't even his own money. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 You don't say.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I think 4 of the main protagonists being arrested and charged with extremely serious offences alongside one of the box office stars having a high court arrest warrant issued on him is big news. However I also believe that the longer this goes on the worse it reflects on Scottish Football as a whole, while many a diddy fan may believe that things are somehow now better, I think you would struggle to find many outside of Scotland who would agree with this, some of the comments coming out of England in the run up to the recent international show exactly what an irrelevance Scottish football has become. Scottish Football was an irrelevance long before Ranger went belly up. The OF shafted the whole country in their efforts to secure CL money for them and them alone. I still take an interest in Motherwell's results and whenever I am back home I try to ensure it's when we are at home. As to the rest it's of no interest, the league is a foregone conclusion and has been for years. You weakened the league so much you failed to realise it would only serve to weaken you as well. From having two CL entraqnts our cHampions are now reduced to playing 3 qualifying rounds just to get into the CL group stages. There are only two clubs to blame for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenolly Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I wonder how many directors past and present will be checking out what countries have no extradition with the UK before checking out trip adviser in case Craigy boy sings 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenockRover Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I wonder how many directors past and present will be checking out what countries have no extradition with the UK before checking out trip adviser in case Craigy boy sings Bet you a croissant or ten that Chucky ain't answering his phone or door right now ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeHectorPar Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I think 4 of the main protagonists being arrested and charged with extremely serious offences alongside one of the box office stars having a high court arrest warrant issued on him is big news. However I also believe that the longer this goes on the worse it reflects on Scottish Football as a whole, while many a diddy fan may believe that things are somehow now better, I think you would struggle to find many outside of Scotland who would agree with this, some of the comments coming out of England in the run up to the recent international show exactly what an irrelevance Scottish football has become. How can Scottish football be an irrelevance when Sevco, part of Scottish football, has 500 million fans all over the world? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) The warrant issued today for Craigy relates to his ongoing civil dispute with Ticketus. I imagine Scotland will get him after the court in London is finished with him, assuming that anyone does. At this point, it's probably worth noting that the fallout from Rangers' decade-long dodgery is still costing every tax-paying citizen in the country a bundle. Serious fraud requires vast amounts of time and effort to investigate from HMRC, police, forensic accountants and prosecutors, and all of those people have to be paid to do it. The cost to the public purse just of Rangers' stonewalling of HMRC alone is likely to be ridiculously high. This is before we spot that, if all of these coppers, accountants and lawyers weren't tied up trying to sort out the shytefest abomination of Dead Rangers, they would likely all be doing something more useful to the public good. Between the tax revenues dodged to the bills unpaid to the ongoing legal costs, which will have to be paid for a long time yet, Dead Rangers have already shafted the nation for a small fortune and it's costing us all a bomb to work out just how badly. Thanks, Oldco. Edited November 20, 2014 by flyingrodent 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 How can Scottish football be an irrelevance when Sevco, part of Scottish football, has 500 million fans all over the world? Maybe he means "what's left of Scottish Football"? What's up with everybody's favourite bigot, anyway? he still gets listed as active, but doesn't share his wisdom any more... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeHectorPar Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Maybe he means "what's left of Scottish Football"? What's up with everybody's favourite bigot, anyway? he still gets listed as active, but doesn't share his wisdom any more... Are you telling me that it was only Oldco which had 500 million fans and Sevco doesn't? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis pakora Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 At this point, it's probably worth noting that the fallout from Rangers' decade-long dodgery is still costing every tax-paying citizen in the country a bundle. Serious fraud requires vast amounts of time and effort to investigate from HMRC, police, forensic accountants and prosecutors, and all of those people have to be paid to do it. The cost to the public purse just of Rangers' stonewalling of HMRC alone is likely to be ridiculously high. Cry me a fucking river. f**k HMRC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Dodd Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 There seems to a group on here trying to pile everything on poor Mr Whyte Whyte appeared from Motherwell via Monaco with wealth off the radar. His deal to get his hands on Rangers involved putting his pound coin on the table plus getting Murray off the Lloyds hook - to some extent, by lobbing some £18million over the wall at them. The bank borrowing was cleared and left as a debt to one of Whyte's companies. Probably seen as 'tax planning' at the time. OK he had to scam that amount off Ticketus. So without knowing all the machinations of the deal but it is clear Whyte had to hand over a hell of a lot more than £1. Let's have a look at Murray the 'Rangers man' as some say. Murray bought Rangers for £6 million. He was a beneficiary of an EBT which netted him £6.3 million. Add to that his salary, pension and expenses paid by Rangers while the Ibrox big cheese. I can guarantee he wasn't on the minimum wage during his time there. So in summary Murray got the club for nothing and drew tens of millions out of the club during his time. Whyte spent £18million to get the club (OK it was money he didn't have). We know which one is the smarter. But do we know which one was the biggest chancer? Which one exploited the Rangers fans most effectively and profitably? I am sure Tedi the renowned C.A. and hopefully C.T.A. will be able to fill in my blanks (when the tutorial finishes) and let us know how much Murray took out of Rangers quite legally during his reign? Is it not just a fact that CW was pretty thick and got duped by SDM. Murray saw him coming and thought, this thick twat will do. What did CW gain from buying Ragers? not a lot. He then became extremely paranoid and started recording all his conversations. He knew what was coming. And the evidence he holds now will condemn a fair few people. He was a scapegoat, nothing more. Just ask Charlotte Fakeover. A few arses are twitching. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I'm afraid that's not quite true (and both of you are doing my nut-in with this 'amateur accountants open night') Yes, I AM upset . The simple way of looking at the transaction is this. Punter pays his season ticket cash; This creates a balance sheet ONLY entry. Dr Bank (asset) Cr Deferred Revenue(liability) The obligation this creates is NOT to pay for players wages etc (the club could be completely amateur and have no payments to make). The obligation is for the company to allow the punter to watch a (future) game or games. When the game is performed, then the following transaction takes place. Dr Deferred Revenue (reducing liability) Cr Revenue (P&L income) Notice not one of these items relates to 'paying players etc'. Paying players wages would have the following transaction; Cr Bank (reducing cash on balance sheet) Dr Players wages (P&L expense) I hope this helps. Yours aDONis P.S. none of this stops the fact that DeadRangers accounts were a mess before Nookie appeared. Some of the ratios would be shocking, particularly quick ratio/acid test (with or without the Deferred Revenue in the equation). And while you are thankfully here and obviously an expert can we maybe go back to the initial point? I picked up on the fact that some were using an £18million bank debt figure in 2010 and comparing it to a £53 million liability figure at the time of admin. The claim was Craig Whyte had added a fortune to the debt during his time in charge. I called this out as pish as they weren't comparing like with like. Would you agree? Also they were using this £18million figure to represent the total amount Rangers owed. Would you also agree they were not correct to do so? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Nosejob Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Can I join in on the accounting discussion. I'd have thought that season ticket money would be accrued income. That is, money received for services to be provided in the following reporting period. I would understand deferred income to be monies received, such as a government grant, towards an asset. In the same way as the expense of purchase is spread over its lifetime as depreciation, the grant towards it has to be spread over the same lifetime. The element of the grant still to be used up would be the deferred income. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Hector and Norman a true meeting of minds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis pakora Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Hector and Norman a true meeting of minds. Bigoted minds Bennet,bigoted minds. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Cry me a fucking river. f**k HMRC. HMRC, the cops, forensic investigators, prosecutors, judges, court clerks and administrators at every step of the way. Every single one of them being paid to investigate Rangers' misdeeds, using resources and being paid wages that every one of us currently in employment has been paying for, for years, and will continue to pay for, for the forseeable future. Every one of those people could be doing something more useful to the public right now, rather than being forced to sweep up the almighty mess that Rangers left behind. So when you say Cry me a river, f*ck HMRC, you're saying F*ck everyone in Scotland who pays income tax, let them all pick up the tab for cleaning up our mess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDONisSheep Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 And while you are thankfully here and obviously an expert can we maybe go back to the initial point? I picked up on the fact that some were using an £18million bank debt figure in 2010 and comparing it to a £53 million liability figure at the time of admin. The claim was Craig Whyte had added a fortune to the debt during his time in charge. I called this out as pish as they weren't comparing like with like. Would you agree? Also they were using this £18million figure to represent the total amount Rangers owed. Would you also agree they were not correct to do so? Oh I've always thought that using selective data from one point in time was laughable. I understand Tedi's thrust, being that the 2010 numbers were on the face of it better than 2009. The only problem being that it was too little, too late. DeadRangers had run out of road. Their liquidity was pyss poor, they had the big tax case. I also think they had lost the little tax case (£2.6m IIRC and couldn't pay that). Their quick ratio was miles below 1.0 Essentially they were completely dependent on CL money (and the associated risks of not qualifying for the group stages). Murray needed out, and I'm pretty sure Nookie thought he could take a chance, scrape by with ticketus, player sales and CL money, or if worst came to worst, do a quick admin switcheroo. It was a high risk strategy that went horribly wrong. Yours aDONis Still, you've got to laugh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 HMRC, the cops, forensic investigators, prosecutors, judges, court clerks and administrators at every step of the way. Every single one of them being paid to investigate Rangers' misdeeds, using resources and being paid wages that every one of us currently in employment has been paying for, for years, and will continue to pay for, for the forseeable future. Every one of those people could be doing something more useful to the public right now, rather than being forced to sweep up the almighty mess that Rangers left behind. So when you say Cry me a river, f*ck HMRC, you're saying F*ck everyone in Scotland who pays income tax, let them all pick up the tab for cleaning up our mess. ^^^^ Sponsored by ..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 ^^^^ Sponsored by ..... Yes Benny, I'm aware that you don't care about the expense to the public caused by your old club's demise. Hell, maybe it's just me, and nobody else finds it at all regrettable. And by the way, for the sixth time: What do you think Scottish football fans should've done about Rangers' liquidation, apart from asking their clubs to abide by the rules? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 If crimes have been committed Roland then they can't be ignored, maybe you'd like them to be ignored but they can't .... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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