bennett Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 For playing illegally registered players? Yup Vicky - you got it right. But not just Rangers - various sane and civillised 'normal' clubs have been ejected from competitions due to errors in registrations - mostly minor clerical, or misreading player suspension dates etc. Old DeadFuckedAndLiquidated Rangers embarked on huge-scale deliberate cheating..... Oh dear ken, " Although the payments in this case were not themselves irregular and were not in breach of SPL or SFA Rules". "Rangers FC did not gain any unfair competitive advantage" "Sandy Bryson, Head of Registrations at the Scottish FA, gives evidence that registrations remain unless revoked and are not automatically invalid due to rule breaches" ".This is an important finding, as it means that there was no instance shown of Rangers FC fielding an ineligible player" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Tax evasion is the thing that is illegal, in fact it is against the law, I am sure HMRC will be demanding arrest warrants imminently. Aye but Kens on the case now and he's read a fair few blogs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Maybe you should go and argue with him Ken ken, "The side letters could affect the tax analysis. But I am aware of no suggestion Rangers has evaded tax." And " EBTs, however well or poorly executed, are not illegal". Afterall with you extensive legal experience..... To me that merely states that EBT's are not an illegal concept which they are not. It does not state that there is no application of EBT's that is illegal, which, given Rangers were found guilty of unlawful application of EBT's last week, seem fairly obvious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Of course if the SPFL wish to avoid all the legal obstacles they could always say "Rangers have fines outstanding which they have no intentions to pay. We shall revisit the judgement and find a punishment which is suitable for all parties" What were the alternate punishments again? Title stripping? League expulsion? Stoney in making shit up mode. There was no alternate punishments for this, that was for the registration embargo. And finally ".Newco bears no responsibility for the rule breaches. "There is no allegation that the current owner and operator of the club, The Rangers Football Club Limited (“Newco”), contravened the SPL Rules or could be held responsible for any breach by Oldco" " In all the circumstances the Commission has imposed a fine of £250,000 on Oldco" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Oh dear ken, " Although the payments in this case were not themselves irregular and were not in breach of SPL or SFA Rules". "Rangers FC did not gain any unfair competitive advantage" "Sandy Bryson, Head of Registrations at the Scottish FA, gives evidence that registrations remain unless revoked and are not automatically invalid due to rule breaches" ".This is an important finding, as it means that there was no instance shown of Rangers FC fielding an ineligible player" No. I'll confidently stick with my original statements. All above is this desperate hair-splitting 'angels dancing on the head of a pin' bullshit which is pretty much a Bearz party piece. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Also it should be noted that the previous SPL EBT case only ruled on those players with side letters. The players for whom no judgement was made upon could be taken into account in another enquiry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Of course if the SPFL wish to avoid all the legal obstacles they could always say "Rangers have fines outstanding which they have no intentions to pay. We shall revisit the judgement and find a punishment which is suitable for all parties" What were the alternate punishments again? Title stripping? League expulsion? Expulsion till they start behaving themselves would be nice 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 To me that merely states that EBT's are not an illegal concept which they are not. It does not state that there is no application of EBT's that is illegal, which, given Rangers were found guilty of unlawful application of EBT's last week, seem fairly obvious. Totally. Cars aren't illegal but driving them the wrong way down the motorway in the dark with the doors open and lights off is. Yeah but cars aren't illegal. Richard Wilson made a fucking idiot of himself yesterday on Sportsound on this very point. "Sandy Bryson, Head of Registrations at the Scottish FA, gives evidence that registrations remain unless revoked and are not automatically invalid due to rule breaches" They don't need to be automatically invalidated. You can do it manually by writing "bullshit" next to the bit where it says how much they are paid, with a pen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 To me that merely states that EBT's are not an illegal concept which they are not. It does not state that there is no application of EBT's that is illegal, which, given Rangers were found guilty of unlawful application of EBT's last week, seem fairly obvious. Just another example of the ill informed hysteria surrounding this. As soon as the verdict was announced people immediately jumped the gun and the bandwagons went into overdrive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) "Report states it is not a breach of SPL rules to minimise tax liability and it accepts Tax tribunal ruling that EBTs are lawful." "We do not therefore propose to consider those sanctions which are of a sporting nature." The first quote states that judgement was based on the fact that the tax tribunal found EBTs to be lawful. The way Rangers used EBTs may, or may not, have been legal but it was not done in a lawful manner. Subtle difference I know but it makes the difference. The second point shows there were alternatives. Benny. Please. It's you who makes up shit. Edited November 10, 2015 by stonedsailor 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.j Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Bennett, you seem quite the expert. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Money isn't illegal, brown envelopes aren't illegal, the underside of a table isn't illegal. Passing money inside a brown envelope underneath a table isn't illegal. Unless it's taxable earnings for an employee. Would a diagram of this in crayon help anyone? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 No. I'll confidently stick with my original statements. . I expected nothing else Kenneth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 ". Benny. Please. It's you who makes up shit. Rangers have outstanding fines.... Blah blah blah Not according to the distinguished William Nimmo Smith 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 In fairness, there is no black and white answer here, there is a lot of ambiguity around the whole situation and anyone speaking as if they know 100% the right answer whether its with regards to legality of the EBT's, how Rangers applied them, the direct correlation to sporting success etc is just going to make themselves look silly. HOWEVER, and this is heavily caveated, and I stated earlier in the thread that I have no interest in title stripping really, if they really were guilty of breaking the law in order to sign players then it has to at least be looked at, it has to. The argument of 'did they really get a sporting advantage because x may or may not have signed etc' is totally moot. If the verdict is that they signed players using unlawful means then it simply has to be looked at. I maintain however that there is no way titles will be stripped, it opens far too big a can of worms for something that in my own eyes means relatively little. As ridiculous as Rangers statement was yesterday (and it was fucking hilarious ), there was a sentiment in there that I agreed with and that is that we should be looking forward and trying to improve scottish football. I sense however that Rangers vision of a better Scottish football is slightly different to mine however.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Rangers have outstanding fines.... Blah blah blah Not according to the distinguished William Nimmo Smith Rangers were fined. The fine is outstanding. The SPFL are well within their rights to seek an alternate punishment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 and little snipes like this is exactly why it is pointless for any Rangers fan to come on here and try and give a dissenting opinion, you and the other usual suspects are simply not interested in hearing anything that does not subscribe to your point of view. To be fair Benny was playing the "you are no expert" card in order to snipe away any discussion which does not fit his agenda so that quip about Benny's expertise was deserved. Your little tantrum in defense of your mate is contemptible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 It HMRC had a rigorous audit process in place, I wonder how much it would recover down the years from those clubs who knocked a few hundred maybe even a few thousand off the official gate to squirrel funds away from the tax man. It must be a tidy sum overall !? It's not really cheating though is it, tax liability avoidance!? and there's no real competitive advantage to be gained over a rival club who operates an open book eh? Difficult to prove now perhaps, but there's no doubt it was a common practice that existed up and down the country. Cue calls of whataboutary but it doesn't make it right. Let the blood letting continue until the appeal is announced. The number of tax experts on here is incredible btw, it must be the biggest professional group represented on P&B by far. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonedsailor Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 It HMRC had a rigorous audit process in place, I wonder how much it would recover down the years from those clubs who knocked a few hundred maybe even a few thousand off the official gate to squirrel funds away from the tax man. It must be a tidy sum overall !? It's not really cheating though is it, tax liability avoidance!? and there's no real competitive advantage to be gained over a rival club who operates an open book eh? Difficult to prove now perhaps, but there's no doubt it was a common practice that existed up and down the country. Cue calls of whataboutary but it doesn't make it right. Let the blood letting continue until the appeal is announced. The number of tax experts on here is incredible btw, it must be the biggest professional group represented on P&B by far. Not taking it well are you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 You know this won't go down well on here. Only Rangers should be punished. The precedent is out there though I'm sure of it !!?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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