Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[EdTheDuck]

I've got a question

Everyone's on about how if rangers get relegated to the third division how much prize money would they get for three straight promotions compared to say 10th 7th then 8th in the spl

In the SFL? approximately fuckall

[HibeeJibee]

I've got a question

Everyone's on about how if rangers get relegated to the third division

how much prize money would they get for three straight promotions compared to say 10th 7th then 8th in the spl

Nothing worth talking about, perhaps a couple of hundred thousand in total? SFL is known to have a fairly 'shallow' prizemoney distribution, plus all 30 clubs basically share-out the proceeds from just the Annual Settlement (£1.5M) and Irn-Bru (£1M) less operating costs.

However - Rangers-boosted SFL would probably get a small TV deal, and when their existing naming rights deal expired they'd presumably be able to renew for something worth a bit more if Rangers still had 1/2 seasons to go, so payments could grow somewhat.

Edited March 3, 2012 by HibeeJibee

[7-2]

Domestic TV deal is worth £13M this season... and coupled with overseas TV, highlights and radio deals, naming rights (£2M per season), ball rights, etc. etc. the entire SPL prizefund was "over £17M" in 2010-11 says Doncaster. After the overall total was reduced by the £1.8M annual settlement to SFL, £250k + £125k parachute payments, operating costs, etc.

Using exactly £17.5M as the prizemoney figure, payments would have been:

Winner = £2.9M

Runner-up = £2.6M

Third = £1.6M

Fourth = £1.4M

then basically down in increments of £100k.

Top 2 take 32%, middle 4 take 33.5%, last 6 take 34.5%.

Press says 2nd v 3rd is worth "over £900k".

EDIT: Basically, for no club to lose out*, a Rangers-less prizemoney pot would need to be 89% of the current prizemoney pot.

Since SFL payment, parachutes and operating costs are fairly fixed, that means that the SPL's Rangers-less income would need to be perhaps 92% of current income, if SPL's operating costs are ~£1M.

Would sponsors/TV/etc. pay 9/10ths of what they currently do, basically.

*i.e. bump everyone 3rd-12th up 1 place keeping current %s and give new 12th another 0.5% increment less.

Excellent HJ. Many thanks. (I looked it through with the Sheldon voice reading it to me)

So basically the non OF clubs have £12 million total sponsorship income to share between them as things stand. Do you think we'd get anywhere near that without the OF?

[wunfellaff]

Excellent HJ. Many thanks. (I looked it through with the Sheldon voice reading it to me)

So basically the non OF clubs have £12 million total sponsorship income to share between them as things stand. Do you think we'd get anywhere near that without the OF?

Prob not but Cup sponsorship could rise as maybe Newco v Celtic tie to be televised (hot balls for the draw once more to ensure it happens).

[Ric]

Nothing worth talking about, perhaps a couple of hundred thousand in total?

It would be hugely arrogant (although this is Rangers we are talking about.. ) but surely the best way to recoup some money would be to have a new strip with each season. Assuming they get promoted each season you would then have limited edition 3rd, 2nd and 1st division tops that would effectively become collectors items as apart from this financial mess they've got themselves into you wouldn't expect them to ever be in those divisions again. If they released the tops on a limited basis, simply having the SFL logo rather than SPL one would make them pretty "valuable".

We all know that club merchandise and shirt sales can rake in a lot of cash.

[HibeeJibee]

Excellent HJ. Many thanks. (I looked it through with the Sheldon voice reading it to me)

So basically the non OF clubs have £12 million total sponsorship income to share between them as things stand. Do you think we'd get anywhere near that without the OF?

Withouth both the OF? Absolutely no chance.

Driver of TV value is 4 OF derbies + 34 other OF away games + 3-4 Edinburgh derbies (provided both are in the division) + about 20 other games as fillers for schedules. In that order. Naming rights rest upon the profile of the league, which rest upon the size and profile of its clubs and its media exposure (i.e. TV etc.).

Even just without Rangers we're not going to even approach 92% income = 89% payments figures I posted.

Sky-ESPN are not going to rate 4 OF derbies plus 15 OF away games as being worth just 8% of the value they're paying for.

Edited March 3, 2012 by HibeeJibee

[vikingTON]

We all know that club merchandise and shirt sales can rake in a lot of cash.

Only if their JJB deal is ripped up. Moonbeams sold them that pup years ago and they get next to hee-haw money per shirt sold.

[No8.]

It would be hugely arrogant (although this is Rangers we are talking about.. ) but surely the best way to recoup some money would be to have a new strip with each season. Assuming they get promoted each season you would then have limited edition 3rd, 2nd and 1st division tops that would effectively become collectors items as apart from this financial mess they've got themselves into you wouldn't expect them to ever be in those divisions again. If they released the tops on a limited basis, simply having the SFL logo rather than SPL one would make them pretty "valuable".

We all know that club merchandise and shirt sales can rake in a lot of cash.

Rangers already renew their strips on an annual basis...Rip Off b*****ds!!! I see your point but think it would little difference in sales tbh

[7-2]

Withouth both the OF? Absolutely no chance.

Driver of TV value is 4 OF derbies + 34 other OF away games + 3-4 Edinburgh derbies (provided both are in the division) + about 20 other games as fillers for schedules. Naming rights rest upon the profile of the league, which rest upon the size and profile of its clubs and its media exposure (i.e. TV etc.).

Even just without Rangers we're not going to even approach 92% = 89% figures I posted, surely.

Say we only got £5m total in the non- OF dream land. That's a drop of £7m from what they currently get ie £700k per club in theory. Even rounding it up to 1m to allow for the ever decreasing away support income, it's sad that our chairmen would be willing to keep the non competitive set up for what in the overall scheme of things is a relatively small amount of money given what they are effectively selling ie Scottish football.

[No8.]

However - Rangers-boosted SFL would probably get a small TV deal, and when their existing naming rights deal expired they'd presumably be able to renew for something worth a bit more if Rangers still had 1/2 seasons to go, so payments could grow somewhat.

This ^^^^^

It would benefit Scottish Football as a whole if Rangers were relegated to the 3rd division. The SFL would get a pretty decent financial boost in TV deal and sponsorship. It would also get far better media coverage and crowds would certainly go up across the board.

[wunfellaff]

Rangers already renew their strips on an annual basis...Rip Off b*****ds!!! I see your point but think it would little difference in sales tbh

How about if the shirts were sponsered by The Haig Fund?

That could mend fences.

[Dunning1874]

14. If:-

(i) a Member shall cease to be entitled to hold a Share; or

(ii) a trustee in sequestration, manager, receiver or administrative receiver shall be appointed in respect of a Member or any property of a Member, or an administration order shall be made in respect of a Member or any property of a Member or an order shall be made or an effective resolution passed for the winding up of a Member otherwise than for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation;

then that Member or its manager, receiver, administrative receiver, administrator or liquidator or any other person entitled to the Share shall, on receiving notice in writing from the Board following the Company in General Meeting passing a Qualified Resolution that such notice should be issued by the Board and confirming the identity of the proposed transferee, transfer its Share to such other person as the Board shall direct at the price of £1 and the Club owned and operated by such Member shall forthwith cease to be a member of the League and the Club owned and operated by the transferee shall become a member of the League in its place.

So basically, all someone setting up a Phoenix club has to do is pay £1 and then it goes to an AGM to take a decision on whether they should be allowed straight into the SPL? f**k. There's no way they aren't getting back in if they're liquidated.

[vikingTON]

This ^^^^^

It would benefit Scottish Football as a whole if Rangers were relegated to the 3rd division. The SFL would get a pretty decent financial boost in TV deal and sponsorship. It would also get far better media coverage and crowds would certainly go up across the board.

The problem is that it doesn't benefit half a dozen SPL clubs who have got themselves up to their eyeballs in debt spending money on shite players. Unless the decision is made by the 11-1 (presumably 10-1) vote then the self-preservation brigade will sell Scottish football down the river.

If it has to go to the 'super-majority' vote, then I don't think Rangers would get in.

But on another note: Rangers wouldn't be 'relegated' to the Third: they'd have to be in a position to apply for a vacant SFL spot, go through due process and win a vote. It's a significant difference.

Edited March 3, 2012 by vikingTON

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Ahhhhhh f**k i have deleted about a dozen replies to this...You so very nearly had a huge bite but nope i'll rise above it

Rise above what? Everyone in Scotland knows what rangers stand for. To accept a job with them, you accept that you are working for a shameful organisation which would still practice apartheid recruitment policies if they could, which encourage sectarian hatred, and which bully those less powerful than themselves. And no, it's not a "minority". It's in the fabric of the organisation, from stands to boardroom. Prostitution would be a better moral choice, as at least the sex/money interchange is open and honest.

KTID

[EdTheDuck]

Anyone want to pen a play on the events of the last few weeks? The name is already there, Waiting For Godknows

Why are we waiting, oh why are etc etc

[nijmegen bairn]

So basically, all someone setting up a Phoenix club has to do is pay £1 and then it goes to an AGM to take a decision on whether they should be allowed straight into the SPL? f**k. There's no way they aren't getting back in if they're liquidated.

13. The Board shall REFUSE to register the transfer of a Share:-.

14. If:-

(i) a Member shall cease to be entitled to hold a Share; or

(ii) a trustee in sequestration, manager, receiver or administrative receiver shall be appointed in respect of a Member or any property of a Member, or an administration order shall be made in respect of a Member or any property of a Member or an order shall be made or an effective resolution passed for the winding up of a Member otherwise than for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation;

then that Member or its manager, receiver, administrative receiver, administrator or liquidator or any other person entitled to the Share shall, on receiving notice in writing from the Board following the Company in General Meeting passing a Qualified Resolution that such notice should be issued by the Board and confirming the identity of the proposed transferee, transfer its Share to such other person as the Board shall direct at the price of £1 and the Club owned and operated by such Member shall forthwith cease to be a member of the League and the Club owned and operated by the transferee shall become a member of the League in its place.

Read it all including section 13

Edited March 3, 2012 by nijmegen bairn

[HibeeJibee]

Say we only got £5m total in the non- OF dream land. That's a drop of £7m from what they currently get ie £700k per club in theory. Even rounding it up to 1m to allow for the ever decreasing away support income, it's sad that our chairmen would be willing to keep the non competitive set up for what in the overall scheme of things is a relatively small amount of money given what they are effectively selling ie Scottish football.

You're somewhat under-estimating even with the £700k because the SPL still has operating costs and payments to make to SFL (which would go down as it's index-linked but would still be notable)... however, even if we worked on a basis of £700k lost per club in prizemoney, that's a huge wedge out of smaller clubs turnovers and wage funds. Hence their twitchyness.

We don't know what Sky-ESPN would offer if Rangers went, but it'd be a fraction of £13M. Naming rights are up for renewal next year. Rangers also take bigger travelling supports.

That's why a lot of other SPL clubs, especially ones servicing bank debts, are probably sweating perfusely.

[pozbaird]

Day 19. Actual events since administration:

1. Rangers go into administration.

2. Duff & Phelps appointed administrators.

3. Russell & Smith leave.

4. Matt McKay sold to Korean club.

6. Cousin deal killed off.

Hmm. So how are they doing, saving a million quid per' month, looks like Haudit & Daudit are on top of the situation. I mean, as an example, can a business needing to save that amount each month, justify still having Ally McCoist, Ian Durrant, Kenny MacDowall, and a goalkeeping coach on the books? Is Jim Stewart the keepers' coach? Very strange, but hey-ho.

[bairney]

Rangers will be fine. I just seen a couple of tinks buying Rangers merch (baseball cap) at the JJB clearence store in Falkirk. Everybody is doing their part

Have a bit of green. Made me chuckle

[pozbaird]

You're somewhat under-estimating even with the £700k because the SPL still has operating costs and payments to make to SFL (which would go down as it's index-linked but would still be notable)... however, even if we worked on a basis of £700k lost per club in prizemoney, that's a huge wedge out of smaller clubs turnovers and wage funds. Hence their twitchyness.

We don't know what Sky-ESPN would offer if Rangers went, but it'd be a fraction of £13M. Naming rights are up for renewal next year. Rangers also take bigger travelling supports.

That's why a lot of other SPL clubs, especially ones servicing bank debts, are probably sweating perfusely.

The bottom line is none of us know Sky/ESPNs thinking. Here's an alternative scenario. Rangers go tits-up, end up in Div 3 as a phoenix club. Sky broker a new deal, no cut in cost, but they get to show the 'Rangers phoenix story' as the new club rise Gretna-like, through the divisions. Sky market the whole deal in a huge campaign along the lines of 'Sky - supporting Scottish football'... They become the good guys, not bad guys who 'did walking away'. For three seasons they mix up SPL games with the Rangers story, before too long, normal service will be resumed.

It's possible. Anything is possible in this soap opera.