Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[Bendarroch]

Honestly?

Just to clarify then only things that happened in 1912 count as...a century ago?...

Honestly?

Would you say that things that happened in 1911 and 1913 count as...a century ago?

[Sting777]

Partick Thistle. WAPT.

AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHH!!!!

[WhiteRoseKillie]

I believe that both Rangers and Celtic together were very much responsible, unwittingly but maybe not intentionally, for much of the negativity within Scottish football. Both clubs together have throttled Scottish football due to their politics which have no place in sport.

But, "The old firm" died last season so you don't need to concern yourself with that anymore.

I believe that Celtic as a club are and always have been altruistic as a club, financially towards Scotland as a whole. They have also done very much during the last 20 years to discourage all from participating in what most peace loving people consider to be anti-social behaviour. I cannot say the same about the dead Rangers as a club or the comedy club that has replaced it.

First paragraph - Oh, it was unwitting alright, if you think the majority of all income going to them was an accident.

Second paragraph - somebody should tell the green and blue halfwits then.

Third paragraph - Do you also believe in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus?

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Speaking of idiots how are you. And can you explain when 124 years became two centuries. School i went to taught us all that's 200 years. Edit too add,don't you feel like a right tosspot posting photos and newsheadlines from months ago,after all it's not as if the whole of Scotland hasn't been privy to the Ibrox situation. Seriously it makes you look a right clown.

Youngsy, bloody stop it. I'm agreeing with you again. Those bloody great jpegs were an irrelevant distraction first time round, and a pain in the arse on every subsequent appearance.

SS-18, grow up ffs. The "My team - Scotland" tag - my arse. How many clubs' fans go looking for years-old photos of tabloids or, even worse, keep them stored for future use?

[SS-18 ICBM]

Green delivers little but soundbites but expects fans to deliver £20m: http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/green-delivers-little-but-soundbites-but-expects-fans-to-deliver-20m.19263287

Certainly, the figures claimed by the chief executive so far have beggared belief. Around 8000 potential investors have declared their interest, he's said. Somewhere between £15m and £17m will be invested if they all cough up what they've said they will.

If all that dough really does flood into Ibrox, Green will be in demand for lectures to Harvard Business School. Surely there would never have been a newcomer who milked so much money out of a set of supporters while giving so little of himself away.

"I don't care what people think about Charles Green or what the media think about Charles Green, because it's all based on ignorance and not knowing me," he said in an interview only last week. Well, exactly. Neither Rangers fans nor most of the rest of us can claim to know Green yet. Nor can those thousands of supposed investors possibly be sure of what they're putting their money into.

Anecdotal evidence suggests an ongoing and entirely sensible caution towards Green, which doesn't quite square with the impression of unbridled enthusiasm presented by the man himself. There's a difference between buying a season ticket, as 36,000 have done for the guarantee of watching their team, and plunging a required minimum of £500 into shares.

Only six months ago no-one had heard of Green. For the last three of those he's assiduously pushed all the right buttons to get the majority of Rangers supporters onside. Even those who are reluctant or unwilling to get involved in the share issue tend to like him, but they're wary, and understandably so. Many would be far more comfortable about buying into Green in a year or so. If ever there was a set of fans who have been burned, manipulated, deceived and exploited, it's the Rangers support.

Green has often boasted that the club he runs is debt-free and that has always sounded crass towards those who helped oldco Rangers and lost hundreds, thousands or millions as a result of it. Among them, remember, were the 6050 Rangers supporters who paid between £1000 and £1650 for Club Deck debentures back in 1991 and saw their investment turn to ashes a few months ago. A lot of them, comfortable but not necessarily rich individuals, are exactly the sort of people Green will have to rely on in this share issue. It's hard to believe there will be a queue of financial investors for a club with no prospect of making serious money any time soon.

Rangers have been here before. They launched rights issues in 2000 and 2004 and a particularly poor response for the latter was attributed to widespread dissatisfaction with how Murray was running the club (yes, even then). Not even nine-in-a-row, Laudrup, Gascoigne and a mountain of trophies counted for a great deal when Murray went out with the begging bowl eight years ago.

The ironic thing is that you can bet your life Green and his consortium demanded far more information and answers before they took control than they have made available to potential investors so far. When a prospectus is published some answers surely will be provided. Until then, there has been nowhere near the level of transparency any investor is entitled to expect.

Fans are being encouraged to buy into a company for which no accounts have ever been published. The identity of all of the company's shareholders has never been revealed: apparently all of them will be listed in the prospectus, but then again they were supposedly going to be identified once the takeover was complete. There has been far too little time for anyone to make any judgment on how well, or otherwise, the company is being run.

What is the business plan? What, exactly, will any money raised now be used for, given that none of it will go on transfers? If it's for working capital, why is that necessary in the infancy of a new company's ownership? Fans are being asked to cough up £20m for a minority holding in a company which was bought in its entirety for just over a quarter of that five months ago.

Hearts don't have any answers beyond going to their fans, either. Like Rangers, they will go out with a begging bowl just before Christmas. Rangers' minimum investment is £500, Hearts' £110, the latter effectively coming with an ultimatum that if the money doesn't come in owner Vladimir Romanov cannot be held responsible for what might happen next.

The subtext of this is that two of the very biggest Scottish clubs cannot generate enough money on their own without going to the fans for it, fans who already commit via season tickets, the purchase of merchandise and even satellite television subscriptions. The well should be empty, yet the nagging worry of what might happen to their clubs if they don't invest could result in a decent take-up of shares at both clubs.

But it cannot be stressed enough: if Green brings home anything like £15m barely five minutes after first walking into Ibrox, and without delivering anything beyond soundbites so far, supporters will have taken an astonishing leap of faith.

[Claymores]

Green delivers little but soundbites but expects fans to deliver £20m: http://www.heraldsco...er-20m.19263287

I've a fairly strong feeling that even the diehard buns realise in their hearts that buying shares would be nothing more than a charitable donation to Chuckie's Mysterons/last roll-of-the-dice. It's these poor pensioners in Canada I worry of.................who's gonna keep then afloat when Cevco goes tats-up?

[SS-18 ICBM]

Conduct of Sir David Murray, Craig Whyte and Rangers directors examined: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/conduct-of-sir-david-murray-craig-whyte-and-rangers-directors-examined-1-2595313?

THE conduct of Sir David Murray and the Rangers board in the three years before its administration is being examined by the Government’s insolvency investigators.

The Insolvency Service’s Investigations & Enforcement Directorate are also looking at the role played by Craig Whyte, who bought the club from Sir David for £1 in May 2011.

Other key figures under the microscope reportedly include Ibrox legend John Greig, a director from 2003, former chief executive Martin Bain and chairman Alistair Johnston.

An Insolvency Service spokeswoman said: “We can confirm that, since Rangers has entered a form of insolvency, an insolvency practitioner (IP) is required to report on the conduct of the directors. The IP has reported and so the Investigations & Enforcement Directorate are considering the matter.”

It is understood that administrators Duff & Phelps, who took control of the club on February 14, completed the report.

Shortly before Rangers went into administration Mr Johnston called on the Insolvency Service to investigate Mr Whyte’s takeover, but the Government agency could not confirm if it was acting upon this request.

The regulators can take action against company directors for a range of offences, including failure to keep proper accounting records or failure to pay tax. It has the power to disqualify directors for up to 15 years.

The report is likely to be confidential.

[SS-18 ICBM]

Scottish Premier League: Why the Prophets of Doom May Just Be Wrong: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1387889-scottish-premier-league-why-the-prophets-of-doom-may-just-be-wrongaccording-to

According to Greek myth, a princess of Troy by the name of Cassandra was the object of the god Apollo’s amorous attention. As an immortal Olympian, Apollo did not have to rely on a box of Milk Tray and a bunch of flowers to impress the princess.

He gave her the gift of prophecy.

Unfortunately, Cassandra wasn’t of a mind to give in to Apollo’s advances and turned him down. No Olympian god could take back a gift once given, so the disgruntled deity instead spoiled the gift by ensuring that no one would ever believe Cassandra’s prophecies.

Many years later, the people of Troy awoke one sunny morning to find that the Greeks who had been besieging their city for a decade had gone, leaving only a huge wooden horse behind.

The Trojans decided to bring the gargantuan horse into the city, despite it being too tall to fit under the gates.

As they prepared to dismantle the arch of the city gates to accommodate the horse, Cassandra warned of the doom that awaited them if it was brought into the city. No one believed Cassandra when she said that a large force of hoplites was hidden inside the horse, and without even bothering to check, the gates were brought down and the horse brought inside.

The rest as they say, is Homer, but if only they’d listened to Cassandra, Troy may well have prevailed over the flowing-haired Achaeans.

The Cassandras of Scottish soccer were loud and forceful this summer, as Rangers FC slid into oblivion.

SPL Chief Executive Neil Doncaster warned of an approaching Armageddon, while his SFA counterpart Stewart Regan claimed a, “slow lingering death,” was in store for Scottish soccer if the new Rangers were not parachuted into the SPL, or at the very least, allowed into Division 1 to ensure their swift rise to the top division.

In the event, like the original Cassandra, Doncaster and Regan were not believed, neither by the fans nor chairmen of the other 41 Scottish clubs who voted the new Rangers into Division 3.

So how is the Scottish Premier League shaping up as the leaves begin to fall?

We were warned that attendances would fall, there would be no new TV deal and that interest would collapse in an uncompetitive competition as Celtic secured the title by the end of November.

Actually, there are signs that Scottish soccer will be just fine.

With the first round of fixtures just about done, Celtic sits on top by just two points with Hibernian having played a game fewer.

With the Glasgow club having already lost two matches this season, there is no guarantee they will stretch that lead when the game in hand is played.

With Aberdeen and Saint Johnstone also at 18 points and Inverness Caledonian Thistle and Kilmarnock just behind at 15 points, only five points separate the top six.

This time last season, Rangers had 32 points and were nine ahead of second place Motherwell, and 19 ahead of sixth place Saint Mirren.

The league is much more competitive this season than it was last season.

How about attendances then?

While overall attendances have fallen due Rangers and Celtic’s averages dropping by about 5,000, most teams’ averages have actually risen.

Aberdeen’s average attendance has risen by over 1,000, while Hibernian’s has risen by about 500. Neither club has so far hosted Celtic, while Aberdeen have not yet hosted Dundee United, traditionally one of their highest-attended home games of the season.

Although Heart of Midlothian has seen a slight drop—by about 1,000—they have yet to play either Celtic or city rivals Hibernian at home. They should see that average rise significantly by the time the second round of fixtures is completed.

Dundee United’s average attendance has risen by almost 1,500, while Saint Mirren, Saint Johnstone and Inverness Caledonian Thistle have seen more moderate increases.

Fears over a TV deal have also proven to be groundless, with BskyB recently signing a new five-year deal with the SPL for the right to broadcast 30 live matches per season until 2017.

On the European stage, apart from Celtic, Scottish clubs have again failed to reach the group stages of either the Champions League or the Europa League.

Hearts though did give a good account of themselves in their matches with Liverpool, and after taking a late lead at Anfield to level the tie, a more streetwise team would have taken it to extra time rather than chase a winner in the final seconds and get caught on the breakaway.

We were warned that, with Rangers gone, Celtic would suffer in Europe due to a lack of competition in the SPL.

So far though, Celtic are doing just nicely, sitting in second place in their group after recording their first ever away win in the group stages against Spartak Moscow and coming within 30 seconds of a draw in the Camp Nou against Barcelona.

SPL teams still face tough financial circumstances and the standards are still below those of comparable European leagues, but there are encouraging signs.

The league is more competitive, attendances have risen at most clubs, TV funding has been secured for another five years and exciting young players are emerging throughout the division.

Like Cassandra, the SPL’s prophets of doom went unheeded this summer, but unlike Cassandra, they may just have been wrong.

[SS-18 ICBM]

I've a fairly strong feeling that even the diehard buns realise in their hearts that buying shares would be nothing more than a charitable donation to Chuckie's Mysterons/last roll-of-the-dice. It's these poor pensioners in Canada I worry of.................who's gonna keep then afloat when Cevco goes tats-up?

Interesting times and much fun are still to come for all non-Rangers supporters, that is guaranteed due to the numerous investigations into the corrupt affairs of so many associated with the corrupt Rangers FC.

[~~~]

Just heard Charles Green on Talksport, apparently "Rangers cannot run out of money"

Of course they can't Charlie, of course they can't

Wage bill this season is £7 million! Again apparently this is down from £27 million last year.

I still don't see how I club in the SFL can't afford such a high wage bill especially when you factor in all the other running costs for Ibrox & MP

[PeeTeeJag]

Just heard Charles Green on Talksport, apparently "Rangers cannot run out of money"

Of course they can't Charlie, of course they can't

Wage bill this season is £7 million! Again apparently this is down from £27 million last year.

I still don't see how I club in the SFL can't afford such a high wage bill especially when you factor in all the other running costs for Ibrox & MP

And then said that he may stay until they win the Champions League!!! lolololololololol

[~~~]

He's also said as long as he is in charge Rangers will not play in the SPL.........

But he won't be leaving until they are back in the Chanpions League.

[wunfellaff]

Just heard Charles Green on Talksport, apparently "Rangers cannot run out of money"

Of course they can't Charlie, of course they can't

Wage bill this season is £7 million! Again apparently this is down from £27 million last year.

I still don't see how I club in the SFL can't afford such a high wage bill especially when you factor in all the other running costs for Ibrox & MP

Technically he is correct.

[stonedsailor]

Just heard Charles Green on Talksport, apparently "Rangers cannot run out of money"

Of course they can't Charlie, of course they can't

Wage bill this season is £7 million! Again apparently this is down from £27 million last year.

I still don't see how I club in the SFL can't afford such a high wage bill especially when you factor in all the other running costs for Ibrox & MP

Rangers can't but the company running them can.

For so long as there are billions orcs willing to fill pockets of shysters and charlatans, and the benefits agency are around, there will be no shortage of those willing to fill the pockets of anyone promising success.

Edited October 29, 2012 by stonedsailor

[SS-18 ICBM]

Just heard Charles Green on Talksport, apparently "Rangers cannot run out of money"

Of course they can't Charlie, of course they can't

Wage bill this season is £7 million! Again apparently this is down from £27 million last year.

I still don't see how a club in the SFL can afford such a high wage bill especially when you factor in all the other running costs for Ibrox & MP

Operating/running costs for Ibrox Stadium and Murray Park while playing in Scotland's fourth tier league (Scottish Football League, Division3) are still the same as they were when the old dead club played in the top league (Scottish Premier League). Non-playing staff, stewards/policing, ambulance service, water, energy companies, building maintenance, rates & taxes, etc all have to be paid.

But with greatly reduced income (at least 33% less) from season and match day ticket sales in Division3 which is their only genuine source of major income from football.

And with...

No income (prize money) from the SPL.

No income (prize money) from UEFA.

No income of any sort from fans in attendance at European matches and a minimum of 4 years without income from European football.

No income from major sponsors due to their history of bumping creditors and tax dodging.

Less income from match days due to less league matches if they actually win the SFL's Division3 and very unlikely to reach Cup Finals.

The list goes on.

It will be very interesting to look at the annual accounts when they appear.

Edited October 29, 2012 by SS-18 ICBM

[stonedsailor]

This not some scabby Ger's forum Tedi .. otherwise fuds like you would have been banned long ago ..

Tedi joined the 27th of July, suspiciously close to when Chucky's club/company lie took hold and long enough for one of the disappeared P&B Rangers fans to regain interest. Now he's obsessed with claiming people have alternate accounts. The bear, I fear he protest too much.

Edited October 29, 2012 by stonedsailor

[SS-18 ICBM]

You can't get any more defeated than Liquidated in my view, but everybody has their own thoughts I suppose.

I might be just a greedy b*****d though, because the scenario I would dearly like to see is for HMRC to find that there is a significant enough similarity between The Rangers and Rangers to allow them to deem The Rangers a 'continuity' Rangers, and wallop the Big Tax Bill onto Green's desk.

Same business, same bricks and mortar, same strip, same customers, same sponsorship, same name and claiming the history, suggests to me that the similarities between the two shouldn't be too hard to determine.

Bust before Christmas, and I honestly wouldn't ask Santa for anything else!

The official portal for tax judgements is http://www.financean...px/default.aspx

As soon as the judgement is available to the public it will be released here. Normally a day before BAILII will publish it.

This morning's STV headline is:

Football Talk: Zombie attack, Ibrox leaseback, SPL goals, Torres dive: http://sport.stv.tv/...ls-torres-dive/

And Wednesday 31st October 2012 is the day when Duff & Phelps, administrators for RFC (IA), appear before Lord Hodge at the Court Of Session

It could be interesting. There could/should be consequences.

Edited October 29, 2012 by SS-18 ICBM

[PeeTeeJag]

I'll give him his due, Green can certainly talk. Although you really have to listen carefully to what he says.

I won't leave until the club is in the Champions League. The club will never play in the SPL as long as I am chief exec. But if the fans want to play in the SPL then we will put it to the vote, but I won't be there.

But I thought he just said he wouldn't leave until they were in the CL, or won it?!?!?!?!?

There will be a European League in 5 to 10 years. Fans want to see the big clubs playing each other.

Eh, it's called the Champions League and we've had it for a while.

Even if only half the pledges are fulfilled it will still bring in over £10 million. We're doing it now because it means cheaper shares for the fans. If we waited a couple of years it would cost more to buy shares.

Of which he gets 10% in shares that he can't sell as long as he is chief exec.

I know very little about football and so do the rest of the board.

Thought he had been telling us that he was football minded and used to play professionally, as well as his previous dealings with Sheffield?

I could go on, but at the end of the interview Richard Keys said "It's been very interesting............One way or another." He didn't seem overly impressed by Green's answers to his questions, but didn't want to badger his guest.

What was interesting was that my workmates (both cheeks of the same arse) both agreed that Green gave very long answers to questions which they felt was like a politician. The more a politician talks the audience "stops" listening and miss any bits where the speaker could go back months down the line and say "I did tell you this might happen."

Keys asked Green why the change of plans to do a share issue when that wasn't the original idea when Green was proposing to take over the club. Green said that this was always the plan and he made that known at the time that there would be a share issue within a year of him taking over the club. But if memory serves, didn't he say this share issue would mean that the fans would own the club?

However one thing he did say that was interesting was that he would get 10% of the share issue as this was agreed that would be his share for his dealings with the club.

"Agreed"? With who?

The way he said it was almost as if he was looking after the club for someone else. Hmmmmmm

Edited October 29, 2012 by PeeTeeJag

[Claymores]

So what is to stop them now going for their dream of fucking off to England and starting in the Unibond league?

Rules have been tightened now.........apparently you need to be from the Officiating Association's Country and/or(?) come from within 60 miles of the poor club you are subsuming to 'buy' the place in an English minor league.

I'd probably add on top of that:

1. Sally could'nt handle it - he'd get them demoted even further to oblivion if Chuckie was enabled to try it

2. The FA couldn't possibly wear it................the underclass of Scotland running amock in Engerland (don't mention Manchester). The Engerlish police authorities couldn't possibly wear it................the underclass of Scotland running amock in England without the sectarian laws to stop them!

[SS-18 ICBM]

I'll give him his due, Green can certainly talk. Although you really have to listen carefully to what he says.

I won't leave until the club is in the Champions League. The club will never play in the SPL as long as I am chief exec. But if the fans want to play in the SPL then we will put it to the vote, but I won't be there.

But I thought he just said he wouldn't leave until they were in the CL, or won it?!?!?!?!?

There will be a European League in 5 to 10 years. Fans want to see the big clubs playing each other.

Eh, it's called the Champions League and we've had it for a while.

Even if only half the pledges are fulfilled it will still bring in over £10 million. We're doing it now because it means cheaper shares for the fans. If we waited a couple of years it would cost more to buy shares.

Of which he gets 10% in shares that he can't sell as long as he is chief exec.

I know very little about football and so do the rest of the board.

Thought he had been telling us that he was football minded and used to play professionally, as well as his previous dealings with Sheffield?

I could go on, but at the end of the interview Richard Keys said "It's been very interesting............One way or another." He didn't seem overly impressed by Green's answers to his questions, but didn't want to badger his guest.

What was interesting was that my workmates (both cheeks of the same arse) both agreed that Green gave very long answers to questions which they felt was like a politician. The more a politician talks the audience "stops" listening and miss any bits where the speaker could go back months down the line and say "I did tell you this might happen."

Keys asked Green why the change of plans to do a share issue when that wasn't the original idea when Green was proposing to take over the club. Green said that this was always the plan and he made that known at the time that there would be a share issue within a year of him taking over the club. But if memory serves, didn't he say this share issue would mean that the fans would own the club?

However one thing he did say that was interesting was that he would get 10% of the share issue as this was agreed that would be his share for his dealings with the club.

"Agreed"? With who?

The way he said it was almost as if he was looking after the club for someone else. Hmmmmmm

Agreed with his business associates at Ticketus prior to his £2 speculation. "You have to speculate to accumulate" you know. A phrase used by potential profiteers to remind prospective investors that returns can only come from good investment. Really a buzzword (or buzzphrase) to get money from others to squander on fruitless and flowerly ideas.

That £2 wager will not be a great loss to Chucky Green if his gamble is unsuccessful, he will have lost time but not money. It will be another huge loss only for the zombies...and nobody other than the zombie supporters of corruption will care about another huge loss to those zombies as it will affect only them .

Edited October 29, 2012 by SS-18 ICBM