Monkey Tennis Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I have not shifted one bit and for clarification, I have not expressed sympathy for any Rangers supporters. I have shown empathy for the decent Rangers fans and the situation they find themselves in as I consider myself a decent football supporter. Quite different from sympathy so, if you insist on dissecting my points, try to get it right. You say that "Rangers doing well was of benefit only to them". I agree. What has that to do with what I said ? The Thistle fan did indeed point out that he stood to lose nothing from Rangers' problems. You then go on to claim that I explicitly made that claim. What utter nonsense you type. I made a general point about all Scottish football fans losing and, as you are well aware, that was in relation to the reputation of Scottish football from out with our country. There is absolutely no explicit reference to a Partick Thistle supporter, so don't be silly. If the Thistle fan disagrees with me, his opinion has just as much merit as mine and he is entitled to hold that view. It doesn't, as you claimed, mean that I'm wrong. It means that our opinions are different. As for the reference to " a buoyant Rangers contributing to Scottish football being admired by those in other parts", I have no idea why you are typing this drivel. It certainly didn't come from me. I alluded to the mismanagement of Rangers tarnishing the reputation of Scottish football. As you will see below, from my original post, my points were critical of Rangers but not of the ordinary, decent members of their support. "This is a bigger issue than it may at first seem. When Rangers travelled to Stranraer, they stayed at Turnberry and now it's a stop over in Carnoustie on the road to Brechin. In the context of financial prudence, this is indicative of the profligacy and complacency present within the walls at Ibrox. A stay over at a hotel on match day, in itself, is not an inordinate expense but if this attitude exists with small items of expenditure, it's not too hard to believe that it will be replicated when serious money deals are being entered into. We are already seeing it in the ludicrous amounts of money being expended on playing and non-playing staff and that convinces me that it is part of the ongoing culture at the club. We can all point and laugh at the deniers, the knuckle draggers etc., but what about the decent Rangers fans who are forced to tolerate this abysmal mis-management ? The people who have been involved in dragging Rangers to it's knees........again........are also guilty of setting back Scottish football for years to come. As diddy fans it may look as if we are gaining something but the truth is that there are no winners in this, apart from the money grabbers. Every Scottish football fan is losing." Pish, drivel and bunkum etc. I'm well aware of the distinction between sympathy and empathy, but would maintain that in saying "what about the decent Rangers fans who are forced to tolerate this abysmal mismanagement?", you were displaying both. I'd also say that your statement that "Every Scottish football fan is losing" was perfectly explicit in including Patrick Thistle fans like Dave j. That's what the word 'Every' achieved. And finally, the mismanagement of Rangers tarnished them badly as a club. The fact that ultimately, they didn't entirely get away with it, actually reflects better on our game than the alternative. You may feel inexplicably damaged by what's happened at and to Rangers. I and others feel uplifted however and it's maybe best if you don't attempt to mistakenly represent our interests. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelegendthatis Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Stockbridge has had a "panic button" installed in his Big Hoose. Presume he will hit the big red button if a Rangers fan turns up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelegendthatis Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Two board members is "not suitable" to run Rangers http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24603774 "I have been talking to everybody, trying to map out a path through this minefield." Shackleton said "....It is a very complicated situation " It would be good if he could explain this in more detail. In what way is it complicated? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottxs Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Presume he will hit the big red button if a Rangers fan turns up. no chance of that as that club died. They support the rangers now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutty Old Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Pish, drivel and bunkum etc. I'm well aware of the distinction between sympathy and empathy, but would maintain that in saying "what about the decent Rangers fans who are forced to tolerate this abysmal mismanagement?", you were displaying both. I'd also say that your statement that "Every Scottish football fan is losing" was perfectly explicit in including Patrick Thistle fans like Dave j. That's what the word 'Every' achieved. And finally, the mismanagement of Rangers tarnished them badly as a club. The fact that ultimately, they didn't entirely get away with it, actually reflects better on our game than the alternative. You may feel inexplicably damaged by what's happened at and to Rangers. I and others feel uplifted however and it's maybe best if you don't attempt to mistakenly represent our interests. I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with the derogatory terms that you spout at the start of your posts. It's like you have literary Tourettes. However, if it keeps you happy, carry on. On one hand you tell me that you can distinguish between empathy and sympathy and yet you palpably fail to understand that you have quoted a question that shows the difference between the two. My question shows that I understand the plight of the decent Rangers supporter. Sympathy is something that I'm sure any Rangers fan would reject and it is not something that I offered. If you can't comprehend that, I'm afraid I can't be held responsible for your lack of comprehension. As for your reference to the word 'explicit', a wee English language lesson is required. It seems that you have some difficulty in understanding the meaning of some words. If you had stated that you believed that I was making an implicit reference to every individual football fan I may disagree but at least your point would have a semblance of sense. I think that you are being disingenuous in picking up the word 'every' in my post to mean every single individual. 'Every', in this context referred to supporters up and down the country in general. If you genuinely think otherwise, and I don't believe you do, you are a lot less intelligent than I thought. If you think that the fact that Rangers didn't entirely get away with their mismanagement reflects well on our game you are delusional. I don't believe for a second that people in general, external to our game, analyse the details of what has been going on. I would suggest that they see a big club being thrown out and then being accepted back in at Division 3 level and that their take on it is that Scottish football is a joke, since the mismanagement of Rangers is continuing. While the diddy fans like ourselves snigger at the ludicrous goings on, the outside world have their perception of Scottish football as a joke football country reinforced. I accept that you and the Thistle fan vehemently oppose this view but we are all entitled to hold our own opinions.......even me. By the way, 'finally' usually means that this will be your last point. However, let's continue............. .............At the risk of repetition, I made a general point about my perception of the situation in relation to what people external to Scottish football were witnessing. I did not and would not purport to represent any other individual's views. It was my opinion alone. I do note with interest however, your allusion to "mistakenly representing our interests". It seems that you are now the self appointed spokesman for the individual football fans of Scottish football. Perhaps you should just stick to your own opinion instead of assuming that you know the views of others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 (edited) I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with the derogatory terms that you spout at the start of your posts. It's like you have literary Tourettes. However, if it keeps you happy, carry on. On one hand you tell me that you can distinguish between empathy and sympathy and yet you palpably fail to understand that you have quoted a question that shows the difference between the two. My question shows that I understand the plight of the decent Rangers supporter. Sympathy is something that I'm sure any Rangers fan would reject and it is not something that I offered. If you can't comprehend that, I'm afraid I can't be held responsible for your lack of comprehension. As for your reference to the word 'explicit', a wee English language lesson is required. It seems that you have some difficulty in understanding the meaning of some words. If you had stated that you believed that I was making an implicit reference to every individual football fan I may disagree but at least your point would have a semblance of sense. I think that you are being disingenuous in picking up the word 'every' in my post to mean every single individual. 'Every', in this context referred to supporters up and down the country in general. If you genuinely think otherwise, and I don't believe you do, you are a lot less intelligent than I thought. If you think that the fact that Rangers didn't entirely get away with their mismanagement reflects well on our game you are delusional. I don't believe for a second that people in general, external to our game, analyse the details of what has been going on. I would suggest that they see a big club being thrown out and then being accepted back in at Division 3 level and that their take on it is that Scottish football is a joke, since the mismanagement of Rangers is continuing. While the diddy fans like ourselves snigger at the ludicrous goings on, the outside world have their perception of Scottish football as a joke football country reinforced. I accept that you and the Thistle fan vehemently oppose this view but we are all entitled to hold our own opinions.......even me. By the way, 'finally' usually means that this will be your last point. However, let's continue............. .............At the risk of repetition, I made a general point about my perception of the situation in relation to what people external to Scottish football were witnessing. I did not and would not purport to represent any other individual's views. It was my opinion alone. I do note with interest however, your allusion to "mistakenly representing our interests". It seems that you are now the self appointed spokesman for the individual football fans of Scottish football. Perhaps you should just stick to your own opinion instead of assuming that you know the views of others. I'd suggest that in empathising with those who've suffered a fate you consider unpleasant and undeserved, there is an implicit sympathy there. "Every Scottish football fan is losing" however, was a clear and explicit statement aimed at including each and every individual. If you had not meant it, you should not have said it. I still do not accept that the travails of a big club make our game look like a joke - not at all. The likes of the Italian game has been hit at various points by corruption scandals, often involving their biggest stars and clubs. The damage there should be very much more significant, but is far from terminal. When I spoke of 'our interests' I was happy to include Dave j and anyone else who shares my views here. I don't think I speak for the "individual fans of Scottish football". If I did, I'd have used that little word : 'every'. Edited October 20, 2013 by Monkey Tennis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I'd suggest that in empathising with those who've suffered a fate you consider unpleasant and undeserved, there is an implicit sympathy there. "Every Scottish football fan is losing" however, was a clear and explicit statement aimed at including each and every individual. If you had not meant it, you should not have said it. I still do not accept that the travails of a big club make our game look like a joke - not at all. The likes of the Italian game has been hit at various points by corruption scandals, often involving their biggest stars and clubs. The damage there should be very much more significant, but is far from terminal. When I spoke of 'we' I was happy to include Dave j and anyone else who shares my views here. I don't think I speak for the "individual fans of Scottish football". If I did, I'd have used that little word : 'every'. He's not speaking for me either. This club and its supporters have ripped the pish out of us all and they've got the cheek to think they were hard done to. If or when they go again it will be because every time people like Jim Spence, Tom English, Graham Spiers and particularly Mark Daly told them what was coming they classed them as enemies of the club. Mark Daly should have been given the freedom of Govan for his work. Everyone is out to to harm to them. For long enough it was "Charles" this and "Charles" that because he was sticking it to the SFA, BBC and all the rest. He was protecting his investment long enough to rip the money out of them. Now he's a charlatan. Sheff Utd supporters told them that when he arrived but orange tops and all that guff was enough to keep them happy. Now everyone who comes into Rangers is going to need them to put their hand in their pocket just to survive in their current guise. No chance of a boycott now. The troughers have got them by the balls. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutty Old Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I'd suggest that in empathising with those who've suffered a fate you consider unpleasant and undeserved, there is an implicit sympathy there. "Every Scottish football fan is losing" however, was a clear and explicit statement aimed at including each and every individual. If you had not meant it, you should not have said it. I still do not accept that the travails of a big club make our game look like a joke - not at all. The likes of the Italian game has been hit at various points by corruption scandals, often involving their biggest stars and clubs. The damage there should be very much more significant, but is far from terminal. When I spoke of 'we' I was happy to include Dave j and anyone else who shares my views here. I don't think I speak for the "individual fans of Scottish football". If I did, I'd have used that little word : 'every'. I think we're almost there MT. It's clear we disagree and it's turning into semantics. On the use of the words ' empathy' and 'every' we are both insistent. I'm sure of what I meant and you are very comfortable with your interpretation. When I saw that you applied the word implicit to your argument about empathy it just made the lines more blurred. We're going round in circles now. The way you've put yourself across in this latest post convinces me that you are genuine, so I'm happy in agreeing to disagree. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloomogganners Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Good post HTG. Tell it like it is. However, you mentioned Graham Spiers. His journalism, written word, and stuff he says should be discounted the minute he starts to write or speak. He's the epitome of a charlatan. Total w**k-rag. And if he was chocolate..... You know the rest. The Imaginary Diary of Graham Spiers is a hoot . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I think we're almost there MT. It's clear we disagree and it's turning into semantics. On the use of the words ' empathy' and 'every' we are both insistent. I'm sure of what I meant and you are very comfortable with your interpretation. When I saw that you applied the word implicit to your argument about empathy it just made the lines more blurred. We're going round in circles now. The way you've put yourself across in this latest post convinces me that you are genuine, so I'm happy in agreeing to disagree. Ok mate -a truce it is. I recognise that there are decent Rangers fans who have been treated badly. However, I see the fall-out as less damaging to the wider game than you do. It has all got a bit too focused on semantics though so I'm happy to call it a day. Hope I'm not being whoooshed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutty Old Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Ok mate -a truce it is. I recognise that there are decent Rangers fans who have been treated badly. However, I see the fall-out as less damaging to the wider game than you do. It has all got a bit too focused on semantics though so I'm happy to call it a day. Hope I'm not being whoooshed. Oh great, now you've done it. What does whoooshed mean ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotbawmad Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 That will be the Financial Times on the enemy list 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No8. Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I have been giving it some thought for a while and after a couple of visits on to Rangers forums over the last few days i have made my decision. If the Spivs remain in control after the AGM and are still there next season bleeding the club dry i for one will not renew my season ticket. Reading the posts on Rangers Media just blew me away..Yes i know it is deeply infiltrated but these were Rangers posters and what they were saying was beyond belief. There is no hope for the club with arseholes like that doing the Spivs job for them. It seems to me we have the Follow Followers showing unwavering support for the likes of Paul Murray...I see them as the lesser of two evils but we have the Rangers Media looney tunes supporting the Gangsters and Spivs just to spite Dingwall....f**k Rangers as long as Dingwalls mate doesn't get in seems to be their thinking. I have had a season ticket for over 30 years and i haven't taken the decision lightly. I truly hope for the club that we get these people out at the AGM and up until recently i was fairly confident they would be removed..Now i am not so sure. I couldn't bring myself to sit next to people that supported these Gangsters and Spivs and i certainly couldn't sit quietly alongside them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast_Tim Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I have been giving it some thought for a while and after a couple of visits on to Rangers forums over the last few days i have made my decision. If the Spivs remain in control after the AGM and are still there next season bleeding the club dry i for one will not renew my season ticket. Reading the posts on Rangers Media just blew me away..Yes i know it is deeply infiltrated but these were Rangers posters and what they were saying was beyond belief. There is no hope for the club with arseholes like that doing the Spivs job for them. It seems to me we have the Follow Followers showing unwavering support for the likes of Paul Murray...I see them as the lesser of two evils but we have the Rangers Media looney tunes supporting the Gangsters and Spivs just to spite Dingwall....f**k Rangers as long as Dingwalls mate doesn't get in seems to be their thinking. I have had a season ticket for over 30 years and i haven't taken the decision lightly. I truly hope for the club that we get these people out at the AGM and up until recently i was fairly confident they would be removed..Now i am not so sure. I couldn't bring myself to sit next to people that supported these Gangsters and Spivs and i certainly couldn't sit quietly alongside them. ^^^^ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No8. Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 ^^^^ 54 titles BT...54 titles and still going strong. I would rather my club died with our history than had to live with yours. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast_Tim Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 my club died Well said no8. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I would rather my club died with our history It did -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No8. Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Well said no8. Aye right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinoBalls Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 So why is Dingwall so widely disliked? He represents some sort of supporters organisation, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.