ribzanelli Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) Yes well done for ignoring my correct terminology and introducing your own incorrect emotive ones. Burglary is illegal in any form, EBT`s however are not, this forum has not been arguing about incorrectly administered EBT`s it has been arguing about EBT`s in general, the fact is that EBT`s (when correctly administered) are perfectly legal, this forum got it wrong, nothing will change that. That might be the general gist of the 5714 pages of the forum in your opinion but I was responding to a specific quote by bearwithme who believes Rangers to be completely innocent because at no time was the word guilty used. This directly follows discussion regarding the 'persecution' of 'innocent Rangers' by HMRC. That Rangers admitted liablity in some cases is direct evidence of their 'guilt' and shows that HMRC were perfectly reasonable in pursuing a case. That Rangers won the majority of the cases does not mean they didn't illegally avoided tax in the minority and as such can be considered tax evaders who were worthy of pursuit. Edited July 14, 2014 by ribzanelli 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbungo1874 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 You want me to post links from the RTC website, you are quite clearly attempting to muddy the waters and deflect attention away. This would clarify that the leaks came from HMRC so how exactly would this muddy the waters? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I take it you did not read my posts because I posted that that the leaked documents could have come from within Rangers not that they had not been posted on bloggs. You went on to state that bloggers boasted they had documents before Rangers had them, I asked you for links to these boasts that would show the leaks came from within HMRC and this is your reply Play nice, now. It's been obvious for some time now that P&B's resident Viking has been hanging on by her/his fingernails. Now he/she has descended into FULLBLOWN CAPITAL LETTER SHOUTING, I think we should go easy for a bit. After all, no matter what dark forces were at work for HMRC, D&P, Ticketus, MIH, The SMSM, and Timmy Thompson, the end result was the same. They cheated. Then they died. Oh, and Tedi? Not having time to shred or hide all the evidence is not a "paperwork error".HTH. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 This would clarify that the leaks came from HMRC so how exactly would this muddy the waters? Unbelievable.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aofjays Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Unbelievable.... What is it with you and random amounts of full stops at the end of your posts? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbungo1874 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 What is it with you and random amounts of full stops at the end of your posts? He is quite clearly attempting to muddy the waters and deflect attention away from the fact he posts nonsense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 This is of course just an opinion, you could of course argue that any form of tax avoidance is immoral, I will not, I have no problems with companies trying to avoid tax, it is up to the revenue service to close any loopholes that are too advantageous. On the European stage you could also argue that teams like Shakhtar Donetsk have an advantage against many of their European counterparts, as far as I am aware the maximum income tax rate in the Ukraine is only 17% but again there is nothing wrong with teams exploiting such things, the 17% is legal just as the use of EBT`s were legal. Indeed. The morality or otherwise would be a question of opinion and I'd contend that yours would probably not differ too wildly from mine outside the arena of football. The Ukrainian parallel you attempt to highlight isn't really one at all of course, so is best left aside. I'll maintain that finding inventive and barely legal (don't take issue with that statement in a Youngsyesque flourish - you know it was close) means to enable very wealthy young men to pay less tax than is meant to be due, is dreadful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainCharisma Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Indeed. The morality or otherwise would be a question of opinion and I'd contend that yours would probably not differ too wildly from mine outside the arena of football. The Ukrainian parallel you attempt to highlight isn't really one at all of course, so is best left aside. I'll maintain that finding inventive and barely legal (don't take issue with that statement in a Youngsyesque flourish - you know it was close) means to enable very wealthy young men to pay less tax than is meant to be due, is dreadful. Utterly dreadful mate.How do you sleep at night thinking about it? You're a full on crackpot. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I'll maintain that finding inventive and barely legal (don't take issue with that statement in a Youngsyesque flourish - you know it was close) means to enable very wealthy young men to pay less tax than is meant to be due, is dreadful. Barely legal lol, i've seen this line has been getting spun a lot recently. You were wrong, get over it... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Yes well done for ignoring my correct terminology and introducing your own incorrect emotive ones. Burglary is illegal in any form, EBT`s however are not, this forum has not been arguing about incorrectly administered EBT`s it has been arguing about EBT`s in general, the fact is that EBT`s (when correctly administered) are perfectly legal, this forum got it wrong, nothing will change that. I think a lot more people than this forum, myself included, got it wrong tbf. I would anyone with any power or influence at oldco, or then surely they wouldn't have pursued a course of obstruction, obfuscation and stall tactics the whole time HMRC were on their back. FWIW I don't have a problem with hmrc pursuing any football club that decides to renumerate it's employees through a contentious tax avoidance vehicle. I'm not naive enough to expect large companies not to pursue such schemes, but I am naive to expect football clubs to behave better though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Utterly dreadful mate. How do you sleep at night thinking about it? You're a full on crackpot. Could be worse tbf, he could be a racist bigot who can't live without a fitba forum. Swings and roundabouts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Oh I think the tax system in the UK is extremely punitive, especially on businesses to the point it makes us uncompetitive against our european counterparts and I would include big developed countries like Germany in there, one of the reasons I am considering voting 'yes' is the SNP`s pledge to reduce this, the personal tax side does not concern me as much to be honest. I have no problems with companies looking to avoid some of this punitive tax via legal schemes. But this was surely about personal tax, wasn't it? The company found a means of employing people in a way that enabled them to pay less tax on their earnings than was meant to be the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Barely legal lol, i've seen this line has been getting spun a lot recently. You were wrong, get over it... Ah, it was you who went for the Youngsyesque declaration of ignorance. Fair enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngsy Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Indeed. The morality or otherwise would be a question of opinion and I'd contend that yours would probably not differ too wildly from mine outside the arena of football. The Ukrainian parallel you attempt to highlight isn't really one at all of course, so is best left aside. I'll maintain that finding inventive and barely legal (don't take issue with that statement in a Youngsyesque flourish - you know it was close) means to enable very wealthy young men to pay less tax than is meant to be due, is dreadful. Youngsyesque, i like that, very good. Although i have to say in law you do not have terminology known as ' Barely Legal', it's either legal or illegal and in this case it was found as legal, no matter how many want to argue differently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Utterly dreadful mate. How do you sleep at night thinking about it? You're a full on crackpot. How does my post point to my being a crackpot, or struggling to sleep? I'd suggest my unease about such tax avoidance schemes reflects a pretty mainstream view. Try discussing things. Tedi can. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Youngsyesque, i like that, very good. Although i have to say in law you do not have terminology known as ' Barely Legal', it's either legal or illegal and in this case it was found as legal, no matter how many want to argue differently. Fortunately, this is not a legal platform though and I'm able to use language which reflects reality 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 This was not the individuals administering this scheme, Rangers were, the case was against Rangers not individuals. Yes, I see that. Do you honestly think that methods such as this are acceptable though? I know they were deemed legal, but that's not what I'm asking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I think a lot more people than this forum, myself included, got it wrong tbf. Out of interest do you still think that the mainstream media should have ran with articles from RTC and other discredited bloggers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngsy Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Fortunately, this is not a legal platform though and I'm able to use language which reflects reality Ah but you see, whilst you can argue this all you like, the reality is that the law takes precedent over opinion, so the result on both FTT and UTT is what it is. That's the rules. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Youngsyesque, i like that, very good. Although i have to say in law you do not have terminology known as ' Barely Legal', it's either legal or illegal and in this case it was found as legal, no matter how many want to argue differently. Some might say it was found to be not illegal... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.