Chubbychops Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 3 hours ago, Rob1885 said: Oli Shaw recalled by Barnsley, remember being rumoured to be interested in the summer, maybe one we'll revisit Going by the Motherwell fans comments, he sounds utterly dreadful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well over Par Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 The Craw would do a good job replacing shields. Whether he would want it is another question 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 17 hours ago, Fifes Elite Force said: Yeah you are right on Crawford. I think it was a surprise to the club when he handed in his resignation. I think there were some personal/family issues he was dealing with at the time as well. Which is fair enough. I don't think there was/is any baggage or bad feeling from either side. I heard this about personal reasons too, but the person telling me stressed that it was only rumoured. I’d be delighted if Stevie was to come back in that role, and doing cartwheels if he brought Joe with him. as Annie once sang “sweet dreams are made of this” Edited January 25 by Wacky 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 I see dotnet has a thread speculating about this meeting on the 30th https://dafc.net/forum/read.php?f=1&i=1919167&t=1919167 I’m sure I once read an open letter from our new owners where they said that they would earn their investment back by developing and selling players via the academy they are setting up? I couldn’t find it anywhere, but did find this https://archive.dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=DAFC_Fussball_GmbH_to_take_control_of_DAFC&ID=13227 https://archive.dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=Press_Conference_with_GmbH&ID=13232 I really don’t think these guys are up to anything sinister with our club, I think they would have chosen a different/bigger club to asset strip if that was their intention. I think we are in good hands with these guys at the helm, and it’s just some fans impatience by wanting success yesterday that’s causing unrest with some. As many on here have pointed out, would all this be an issue if we didn’t have the injury list we have and were challenging at the top end of the table? I’ll bet this is one or two “patrons” who’ve thought they should have a much bigger say in the running of the club, and their noses are out of joint because they aren’t getting what they feel they’re owed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuldReekie Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 As has been said before, if all is well, it should be reasonably easy for the club to say so. It's also important to hold the board to account. This means getting them on the record such that that information can be validated at a later date. This builds trust. What doesn't build trust is being evasive or later being shown to be wrong or incorrect, either of which can only be tested by asking legitimate questions. Any well run, transparent business would welcome and cooperate (which I hope the club do). This doesn't mean the club should open the books and let everyone pour over every pound spent, but the club should always be honest about the state of the club and high-level finance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 18 minutes ago, AuldReekie said: As has been said before, if all is well, it should be reasonably easy for the club to say so. It's also important to hold the board to account. This means getting them on the record such that that information can be validated at a later date. This builds trust. What doesn't build trust is being evasive or later being shown to be wrong or incorrect, either of which can only be tested by asking legitimate questions. Any well run, transparent business would welcome and cooperate (which I hope the club do). This doesn't mean the club should open the books and let everyone pour over every pound spent, but the club should always be honest about the state of the club and high-level finance. I agree with all of this, but I doubt that these very wealthy and successful businessmen would be giving in and running the club into the ground after only four or five year. They must have known that a football club will have its ups and downs? I wish I could find the article where they said they weren’t going to pump huge amounts of money into the playing staff to buy success, and that they were wanting the club to self sustainably evolve as they believed it could and would. This brings me back to the whole possibility that some could be expecting them to spend lots of money on greater success far quicker, and are unhappy that they haven’t. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 25 minutes ago, Wacky said: I see dotnet has a thread speculating about this meeting on the 30th https://dafc.net/forum/read.php?f=1&i=1919167&t=1919167 I’m sure I once read an open letter from our new owners where they said that they would earn their investment back by developing and selling players via the academy they are setting up? I couldn’t find it anywhere, but did find this https://archive.dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=DAFC_Fussball_GmbH_to_take_control_of_DAFC&ID=13227 https://archive.dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=Press_Conference_with_GmbH&ID=13232 I really don’t think these guys are up to anything sinister with our club, I think they would have chosen a different/bigger club to asset strip if that was their intention. I think we are in good hands with these guys at the helm, and it’s just some fans impatience by wanting success yesterday that’s causing unrest with some. As many on here have pointed out, would all this be an issue if we didn’t have the injury list we have and were challenging at the top end of the table? I’ll bet this is one or two “patrons” who’ve thought they should have a much bigger say in the running of the club, and their noses are out of joint because they aren’t getting what they feel they’re owed Couple of points I disagree with. 1-I also remember that being there aim, the problem I have with this is that as an aim it simply isn't plausible to do that in the second tier of Scottish football. What are the maximum values clubs at this level have gotten for players? We got 250ish for Nisbet, I beleive that's similar to what Ayr United were offered for Shankland and potentially what they got for the striker last year. A goalscoring striker at those levels is probably the most valuable player you can get and you're lucky to get a quarter of a million. Now, where you might then get your real money is with your sell on clause, but f**k me that's risky. 2)I'd strongly disagree with the term "fans want success yesterday", the Germans first got involved just after we finished 4th in the Championship, were now a few years down the line and the best we can hope for is 4th in the Championship. On the park it would be kind to say we've stagnated, the reality is, as Raith has shown is that providing you have some external investment it really isn't complicated to go from a lower end championship club, to title challengers. 3)I also agree that the owners aren't sinister, what I would say though is that while there intentions might not be bad, we are about to post a massive lost, and we're on course to post another next year. The shareholders at that meeting would've been around when Masterton was telling everyone we were fine, I'm OK with people asking how sustainable we are. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) Asset stripping Edited January 25 by DA Baracus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, HoBNob said: Couple of points I disagree with. 1-I also remember that being there aim, the problem I have with this is that as an aim it simply isn't plausible to do that in the second tier of Scottish football. What are the maximum values clubs at this level have gotten for players? We got 250ish for Nisbet, I beleive that's similar to what Ayr United were offered for Shankland and potentially what they got for the striker last year. A goalscoring striker at those levels is probably the most valuable player you can get and you're lucky to get a quarter of a million. Now, where you might then get your real money is with your sell on clause, but f**k me that's risky. 2)I'd strongly disagree with the term "fans want success yesterday", the Germans first got involved just after we finished 4th in the Championship, were now a few years down the line and the best we can hope for is 4th in the Championship. On the park it would be kind to say we've stagnated, the reality is, as Raith has shown is that providing you have some external investment it really isn't complicated to go from a lower end championship club, to title challengers. 3)I also agree that the owners aren't sinister, what I would say though is that while there intentions might not be bad, we are about to post a massive lost, and we're on course to post another next year. The shareholders at that meeting would've been around when Masterton was telling everyone we were fine, I'm OK with people asking how sustainable we are. Keeping in mind that we still don’t have the academy grounds sorted out yet let alone any potential high value players in it really makes the academy a moot point right now, so it will be a money pit of sorts leading to these losses some are talking about. I’m sure that these guys will know the value of players at this level and would know that if we were in the premier their value would go up considerably, wouldn’t you say it would make much more sense to develop players for that market? I would hold on for that if I were them. IMO they have already put their hands in their pockets to dish out 2-3 year contracts to players, (regardless if we agree on the players being offered these contracts) and splashed cash to bring Kane and Otoo here, hence why I feel they are speculating to accumulate but not bursting the bank to do it, something I think fans expect them to do. I think we’d be much closer to promotion if we didn’t have the injury list we have, and really believe this unrest wouldn’t be an issue if we were more competitive in the league. Because of lack of knowledge about this meeting it leads me to think that fan impatience could be a factor in this speculation, to call it “fans wanting success yesterday” is perhaps me having lack of a better way of putting it. We both agree that we feel there’s nothing sinister about our owners, but reading some of the posts on other forums could lead many to think they are not above board and up to no good. I personally think these guys are a million miles away from the likes of masterton, he was a grasping bawbag of the highest order that duped many until the proverbial hit the fan. IMO, the difference between him and our current owners is these new guys are still very wealthy and successful businessmen where masterton couldn’t stop his little empire from going down the drain, and he tried to use DAFC to prop it up. Didn’t he go to court to hold our club to ransom about using his training grounds because his pension was tied up in it? Lord Woolman (?) thankfully seen through yet another sinister money grabbing scheme of his and kicked it into touch. I don’t think our new owners are anywhere close to that level of incompetence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 27 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: Asset stripping Exactly. I have read that some think this is the case. As I said, there’s bigger and better clubs they could have taken on to strip if that was their intention. EEP was mortgaged to the max when they took it over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifes Elite Force Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 2 hours ago, HoBNob said: 3)I also agree that the owners aren't sinister, what I would say though is that while there intentions might not be bad, we are about to post a massive lost, and we're on course to post another next year. The shareholders at that meeting would've been around when Masterton was telling everyone we were fine, I'm OK with people asking how sustainable we are. This. The cost base has went up and cash reserves sound like they might have dwindled so clarity on that and sustainablity of the club is a fair thing to ask. Ross Mcarthur has taken some flak by some but the one thing he did do was make sure our cost base was very low. It looks like its risen quite a bit. I suppose a mixture of the rumours of the huge loss around the town, the indicators such as the nesbitt money being gone and the admission the training ground is over budget and needing additional funding(which the germans may have funded themselves) leaves some questions to be asked to make sure we are ok. I would like to know if budget is being diverted from playing side into the training base rather than it just being the germans investment which was the initial idea. I'm not niave to think the club wouldn't need to put in some funding along with any grants etc but how much would that be and is it effecting our cash reserves to a large extent to the point its hand to mouth and any little blip has us fucked or dramtically effecting the playing side. I am also interested to know why they havn't converted their loan into shares yet(and there could be good reason for this) although I don't expect an answer will be given on that. Hopefully tough questions are asked and then we get comfort with the answers Apologies for the multiple edits Edited January 25 by Fifes Elite Force 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 45 minutes ago, Wacky said: Exactly. I have read that some think this is the case. As I said, there’s bigger and better clubs they could have taken on to strip if that was their intention. EEP was mortgaged to the max when they took it over. What assets do the club even own?! Why would someone spend a load of cash and time to try and steal from a lowly Scottish football club? Makes zero sense (like the ludicrous 'sell East End to build a Lidl nonsense'). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifes Elite Force Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 40 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: What assets do the club even own?! Why would someone spend a load of cash and time to try and steal from a lowly Scottish football club? Makes zero sense (like the ludicrous 'sell East End to build a Lidl nonsense'). Nothing really. A half built training base now. The stadium is owned by a group of fans who stuck cash in to get it from the bank around admin time and the bank wanted rid of it. I think the Germans have indicated they would hope to reunite the club with the stadium as a principle or long term goal but it doesn't seem like a big priority or interest to them. Its not really worth much for redevelopment purposes anyway if that was their masterplan The Germans have put in at least a 7 figure sum and probably more(maybe up to 2.5m but I'm not 100% on that, it was just mentioned to me once). Theres no way they would get that level of investment back and I think they know that. They arn't here to make money, thats obvious. What they might do I suppose is f**k up the running of it, or decide the project wasnt what they expected and decide to leave(and then it's what state they hand it over and to who will be the question). Edited January 25 by Fifes Elite Force 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shandon Par Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Stevie May though? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1885 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 7 minutes ago, Shandon Par said: Stevie May though? What about him? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Did you not have something like a 30% sell on fee for Nisbet, who moved on for £2Million? If that’s vanished plugging holes that’s got to be a serious concern. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 2 hours ago, DA Baracus said: What assets do the club even own?! Why would someone spend a load of cash and time to try and steal from a lowly Scottish football club? Makes zero sense (like the ludicrous 'sell East End to build a Lidl nonsense'). Again, exactly my point. They took over EEP while it was mortgaged up. I’m not 100% sure, but I think it was in the region of 3 million. No way is that piece of ground worth that, then the cost of taking the stand down would make it a ludicrous amount of money for that piece of land. This is another reason I don’t believe anything sinister is a play here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 2 hours ago, Fifes Elite Force said: Nothing really. A half built training base now. The stadium is owned by a group of fans who stuck cash in to get it from the bank around admin time and the bank wanted rid of it. I think the Germans have indicated they would hope to reunite the club with the stadium as a principle or long term goal but it doesn't seem like a big priority or interest to them. Its not really worth much for redevelopment purposes anyway if that was their masterplan The Germans have put in at least a 7 figure sum and probably more(maybe up to 2.5m but I'm not 100% on that, it was just mentioned to me once). Theres no way they would get that level of investment back and I think they know that. They arn't here to make money, thats obvious. What they might do I suppose is f**k up the running of it, or decide the project wasnt what they expected and decide to leave(and then it's what state they hand it over and to who will be the question). I thought they’d taken the option on buying the ground and it was a done deal? I’m sure I read that during or around the end of lockdown? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 38 minutes ago, Enigma said: Did you not have something like a 30% sell on fee for Nisbet, who moved on for £2Million? If that’s vanished plugging holes that’s got to be a serious concern. I think you’re right, but that’s maybe where the funds for the long contracts, or maybe even Kane and Otoo release clauses. Maybe both came from? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifes Elite Force Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 53 minutes ago, Enigma said: Did you not have something like a 30% sell on fee for Nisbet, who moved on for £2Million? If that’s vanished plugging holes that’s got to be a serious concern. It was confirmed a short time ago at a supporters meeting that the nesbitt money is gone. Now that could be to cover the shortfall of relegation and the deals Wacky mentions. But you are right it's a concern with no clarity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.