Last Book You Read....

[Pink Freud]

Anyway, moving on from sanctimonious twisted religious "interpretation", I thoroughly enjoyed reading the latest Brookmyer, "Where the bodies are buried".

Nicely paced, and well constructed characters - in particular the bereaved actress thrown into the private eye setting. MOre accessible for the non Scot than most of his work as well I suspect. 7/10

[Savage Henry]

The Girl books were either badly written or poorly translated in my opinion. However, even allowing for that the lack of subtley and the way in which the narrative unfolded according to investigations which didn't seem plausible contributed to my dislike of the book. Also, it was drawn out and the characters were all amoral without drawing the reader's sympathy except the Girl herself and even she indulged in sadistic torture which ironically contributed to the mysoginy.

I'm not sure that you can read any kind of implied complicity into Lisbeth's act of revenge. She's an utterly ridiculous character, willfully or otherwise, and utterly undependable. I thought it was merely the author making his female character stronger than objectified in the most unsubtle way. And it's the complete lack of subtlety that made me lose patience with the book quite quickly. But certainly, the book, which was apparently called "Men Who Hate Women", is either badly written or badly translated. I suspect the former. I know the guy died, but there are too many errors in continuity and structure, all of which could have been removed by a good editor.

I thought the title journalist was a pretty sympathtic character, as was his business partner and the Henry Wagner, I'm sure if I tried to remember there would be someone else.

I'm not quite sure how Lisbeth contributed to mysoginy? But it;s been a few years so I may be rusty on some details.

Again, I can;t remember any implausible investigations techniques but I could just be forgetting them. I'd expect that side to be fairly well grounded, given the author was an investigative journalist.

In fact, if i;m honest, a strong biography of the author may be more appealing to me than reading the rest iof the trilogy.

Mmmm, I'm a big believer in the art being subjective line, I wouldn't hail a classic for the sake of it, or write something off as cheap tat becuase it looks like an airport book. In fact, if I'm honest, I reckon there's more literary worth in taking something "low culture" and trying to make capital L literature out of it.

The Girl with a Dragon Tattooo was astonishingly dervivative - Chandler,McDiarmid are two other crime writers that immediately came to mind reading it, but being derivative doesn;t have to be a bad thing, it's sequel just didn't grab me.

I immediately thought of the Sherlock Holmes books. Essentially a wealthy side character provides all the background through a lengthy monologue, after which the detective goes about and does his business (quite literally in this case) amongst the underlings.

And?

So he had to care for the entire extended family?

That's why Mikael was there to contrast. Lisbeth was a very "male" character, whilst Mikael was a very "female" Character - he even played the damsel in distress after all. The author isn't making any suggetsive points through Lisbeth, she's to damaged a person to do that.

Lisbeth was an utterly ludicrous character, and a nod to either the dull right-on politics of the author, or convenient tool. From a plot point of view, the book could easily have coped without her. I thought the curiously drawn out conclusion was merely tacked on to justify her existence. And, if you regard her as being merely a vehicle for the author to express his sexual politics (or as somebody else implied, his odd sexual fantasy) then several of the more violent scenes are completely unjustifiable. She was there to get fucked, f**k back, and

save the hero at the last moment with a golf club.

And the more I think about it, the more problems I have with the morality of the book - not that I would ever use morality as a basis to either read or not read anything. Perhaps that was the point of the book. Perhaps the whole Vanger corporation was intended as a metaphor for the Catholic church. I hadn't really thought of it that way until this post. It could be read that way, I suppose. But my problems with it still remain - Lisbeth was a lesbian for all of one paragraph, and they went to London for the space of half a page. It seemed disjointed, incoherent and poorly written.

[H_B]

I'm reading the Song of Ice and Fire series. I've found it strangely enjoyable, though it wouldn't normally be my cup of tea.

There are some bizarre aspects of it. There's just too many characters to remember who all the knights are and previous kings etc. And there are huge gaps in the story, from one chapter to the next, because each chapter is from a person's perspective.

[Colin M]

Whilst this is true, you'd have to wouldn't you?

I'm midway through my debut novel... "The Girl(s) who Couldn't Resist the IT Office Worker".

[Pink Freud]

I'm midway through my debut novel... "The Girl(s) who Couldn't Resist the IT Office Worker".

Otherwise known as "fumbling through the bits of my coworkers". Ah ha.

[Colin M]

I do agree the Salander character is fairly ridiculous - but then it's a pulp(ish) crime novel and I personally don't think every aspect needs to be entirely believable. I enjoyed the two books for what they are.

The other thing that annoyed me about the first one was the lack of any real link between the opening court scandal and the Vanger investigation (despite a link being implied, ie its the reason why Blomqvist takes on the assignment on the first place), and the final section of the book which is all just tied up too nicely. It was that part that I saw far more as being the author's fantasy (other than the sexual stuff) - the noble journalist who all too easily brings down the multi-national corrupt corporation with the all too convenient hacker assistant.

[Savage Henry]

I do agree the Salander character is fairly ridiculous - but then it's a pulp(ish) crime novel and I personally don't think every aspect needs to be entirely believable. I enjoyed the two books for what they are.

The other thing that annoyed me about the first one was the lack of any real link between the opening court scandal and the Vanger investigation (despite a link being implied, ie its the reason why Blomqvist takes on the assignment on the first place), and the final section of the book which is all just tied up too nicely. It was that part that I saw far more as being the author's fantasy (other than the sexual stuff) - the noble journalist who all too easily brings down the multi-national corrupt corporation with the all too convenient hacker assistant.

Yes, I would agree with that. I kind of felt, as StewartyMac said earlier, if they had just cut the whole final episode out of the book, it would have ended at a better point. As it was, it felt like the ending was tacked on for the sake of "closure", and as you say, the redemption and justification of the crime-fighting journo. Again, something that should have been spotted by the editor, who I suspect was acting out of a sense of honour to the author - kind of like Kafka.

[H_B]

Yes, I would agree with that. I kind of felt, as StewartyMac said earlier, if they had just cut the whole final episode out of the book, it would have ended at a better point. As it was, it felt like the ending was tacked on for the sake of "closure", and as you say, the redemption and justification of the crime-fighting journo. Again, something that should have been spotted by the editor, who I suspect was acting out of a sense of honour to the author - kind of like Kafka.

Wasn't the first one published before he died?

They could have taken note of what Robert Ludlum's publishers did. On his death he left a half written book, so they hired another writer to finish it off, leading to a book with a completely different style and quality of writing, with an ending the original author (I'm sure) hadn't planned. An abortion of a novel.

[Savage Henry]

Wasn't the first one published before he died?

They could have taken note of what Robert Ludlum's publishers did. On his death he left a half written book, so they hired another writer to finish it off, leading to a book with a completely different style and quality of writing, with an ending the original author (I'm sure) hadn't planned. An abortion of a novel.

You might well be right there. I was just assuming, as an excuse for the litany of errors in the book.

[Colin M]

Yes, I would agree with that. I kind of felt, as StewartyMac said earlier, if they had just cut the whole final episode out of the book, it would have ended at a better point. As it was, it felt like the ending was tacked on for the sake of "closure", and as you say, the redemption and justification of the crime-fighting journo. Again, something that should have been spotted by the editor, who I suspect was acting out of a sense of honour to the author - kind of like Kafka.

I felt at the time that the last section was largely to demonstrate Salander's skills of deception etc as she would become a more central character in the following books. The second book certainly revolves more around her (with some even more ridiculous back story) and it perhaps serves as an intro to the opening part of that book. But yeah, it's all just tied up a little too nicely without any real further twist.

It even seems a missed opportunity - there may well have been a good book in there specifically about the journalist fighting business corruption and crime. I expected some overlap with the "murder" investigation and was disappointed how easily the implied link was just dropped.

[Savage Henry]

I felt at the time that the last section was largely to demonstrate Salander's skills of deception etc as she would become a more central character in the following books. The second book certainly revolves more around her (with some even more ridiculous back story) and it perhaps serves as an intro to the opening part of that book. But yeah, it's all just tied up a little too nicely without any real further twist.

It even seems a missed opportunity - there may well have been a good book in there specifically about the journalist fighting business corruption and crime. I expected some overlap with the "murder" investigation and was disappointed how easily the implied link was just dropped.

Fair points. I have to say, I have no intention of reading the second or third books, so I'm taking book one as an end in itself.

[H_B]

Fair points. I have to say, I have no intention of reading the second or third books, so I'm taking book one as an end in itself.

Again, to give him a bit of a get out clause, there were never intended to be only 3 books. I think it was supposed to be a 10 book series or something, so it's possible some of the initial glaring holes were down to this.

The later books might have had the same problems of course, but as I understand it the whole series when complete would have been self contained.

[sam2304]

The Honest Assassain by CJ Carver

6/10

[Thundermonkey]

I've just finished the 3 part Batman: Knightfall.

I picked them up in preparation for the movie next year. If Nolan pulls it off Bane will be elevated in status as he's a tremendous character.

The first book is spectacular, the second book rounds off the first half of the story fairly well and creates the need for the third. It's here I lost a bit of interest as it assumes the reader is well versed in the Batman universe with many references to previous storylines and characters

Overall it's worth a read - 7/10 stuff but as a stand alone book the first one is a classic.

[Colin M]

You insulted me directly, never offered an apology and I asked the posters if they wanted me to open a new thread and that Hearts supporter wanted a new thread opened. I'm going to decline joining your thread because you didn't apologise and you appear uninformed.

I'd say by your insults and patter that you wouldn't say boo to a goose. Rawk on and read up attempting to see beyond narrow mindedness.

The church rightfully applied is a good place to be friend

[H_B]

I've just finished the 3 part Batman: Knightfall.

I picked them up in preparation for the movie next year. If Nolan pulls it off Bane will be elevated in status as he's a tremendous character.

The first book is spectacular, the second book rounds off the first half of the story fairly well and creates the need for the third. It's here I lost a bit of interest as it assumes the reader is well versed in the Batman universe with many references to previous storylines and characters

Overall it's worth a read - 7/10 stuff but as a stand alone book the first one is a classic.

Who is lined up to play Batman in the film out of interest?

[Thundermonkey]

Who is lined up to play Batman in the film out of interest?

Christian Bale. It's a deal breaker apparently, no Bale = No Nolan.

[H_B]

Christian Bale. It's a deal breaker apparently, no Bale = No Nolan.

Good stuff... I quite like Bale.

[Mak]

You insulted me directly, never offered an apology and I asked the posters if they wanted me to open a new thread and that Hearts supporter wanted a new thread opened. I'm going to decline joining your thread because you didn't apologise and you appear uninformed.

I'd say by your insults and patter that you wouldn't say boo to a goose. Rawk on and read up attempting to see beyond narrow mindedness.

The church rightfully applied is a good place to be friend

Hi mate, I have a name btw.

[banterman86]

I've just finished the 3 part Batman: Knightfall.

I picked them up in preparation for the movie next year. If Nolan pulls it off Bane will be elevated in status as he's a tremendous character.

The first book is spectacular, the second book rounds off the first half of the story fairly well and creates the need for the third. It's here I lost a bit of interest as it assumes the reader is well versed in the Batman universe with many references to previous storylines and characters

Overall it's worth a read - 7/10 stuff but as a stand alone book the first one is a classic.

A lot of these big graphic nove;s have a lot of implied knowledge about the universe which is quite frustrating, the Death and rebirth of Superman was ridulous in that respect. But I remember Knightfall, and the Bane character from my childhood, it was awesome stuff.