Jan Vojáček Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 How did Josh Todd play last night? He was our best player by a distance to be honest. He maybe got a 6/10 where everyone else scored 3 or less. Did I hear Stevie saying in his SonsTV interview that it wasn't the game for youngsters to be thrown into? Absolute madness. It's perfect. It's evident we're treating this like pre-season so why not chuck in Clark or Kassarate and let them make a claim for a starting place? I'm absolutely not one of the "Yoofs sort everyhing" brigade, but at least they'll put some effort in and try and snatch one of the starting 11s shirts. The main issue we have is a lack of competition. Every single player in that team (with the exception of Todd maybe) knew that they would start the game. There's no competition and by not making subs Stevie reinforced that. Hopefully the loan deals will help bolster the squad with some quality, or even bodies, but I can't help and fear thay Stevie will stick with the team we had out last night. He didn't seem to like playing loanees last season (Brophy and Waters spent plenty of time on the bench, whilst Lindsay (clearly our best midfielder) was bizarrely shunted wide on a number of occasions to accommodate lesser players in the middle. We cannot afford players getting sent off for acts of stupidity like last night either. I mean realistically Gal, Stevo and Gaz could all have walked and where would that have left us? A one man bench practically. I hope Stevie gets them telt about daft actions like that which we can really do without. Unless we make a few signings this week I'll not bother with Dundee. In fact even if we do I don't think I will. Just cannot be bothered with wasting my Saturday watching us lose away from home again. I'm not panicking. I'm far too relaxed for that sort of stuff. However unless there's some seriously decent additions to the team I can't say I'm overly optimistic heading into the league season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 9 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said: We're not doomed but quite rightly our last 2 utterly vile performances have alarm bells ringing. Everything from our piss thin squad to the attitude to the tactics to the lack of discipline. It's hugely concerning IMO. We had a couple of games similar to this last season, the difference was we had scope to change things around, this season we don't. We have to work with what we have and 2 of what we have can't even get a sniff of a game thus amplifying our main issue. I can fully appreciate why people are concerned after Saturday and last night. It looks like far more than simply two off days. Will two loan deals change the fact we have zero depth or options in our squad outwith out lacklustre starting 11? Quite possibly. Will it be enough? I'm almost convinced it wont be. You say we're not doomed and then go on to paint a picture that has us doomed, signing off with you being convinced we're not going to be good enough. We may well turn out not to be good enough, but two games in a cup competition which clearly the management are using to try things out (Fleming dropping into centre half and pushing wing backs right up the field when in possession last night for example) prove hee-haw other than us having a stinking attitude towards this cup (which is a historical thing for us Sons). When the draw was made our assistant manager even said there was little point in taking part/progressing. I wouldn't be surprised if we were looking to exit this cup sharpish, as much as fans don't like to hear it. Will 1 or 2 loans be enough? If they're the right players then absolutely. You only need to look at the difference Chris Kane and Jamie Lindsay have made to our teams over the last few years to know that. So lets just calm down and if we're sitting at the start of October and everyone's worst fears are confirmed then maybe we can panic. Folk shouting that Aitken will be out the door soon and we'll be lucky to avoid 10th is knicker wetting of the highest order. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 21 minutes ago, The Moonster said: You say we're not doomed and then go on to paint a picture that has us doomed, signing off with you being convinced we're not going to be good enough. We may well turn out not to be good enough, but two games in a cup competition which clearly the management are using to try things out (Fleming dropping into centre half and pushing wing backs right up the field when in possession last night for example) prove hee-haw other than us having a stinking attitude towards this cup (which is a historical thing for us Sons). When the draw was made our assistant manager even said there was little point in taking part/progressing. I wouldn't be surprised if we were looking to exit this cup sharpish, as much as fans don't like to hear it. Will 1 or 2 loans be enough? If they're the right players then absolutely. You only need to look at the difference Chris Kane and Jamie Lindsay have made to our teams over the last few years to know that. So lets just calm down and if we're sitting at the start of October and everyone's worst fears are confirmed then maybe we can panic. Folk shouting that Aitken will be out the door soon and we'll be lucky to avoid 10th is knicker wetting of the highest order. Does it not just "feel" a bit wrong to you? Not enough players, poor early season performances / results, not seeming to know his strongest XI or best formation (particularly weird since he's worked with a lot of these players before with us and with Stranraer), nor the best positions for his players, getting his excuses in early, hopeless away from home for a whole year etc. not to mention the cutting of the budget and the scrapping of the U20s. I can't speak for anyone else, but it feels to me like this season is going to be a straightforward shitshow. I'm not particularly convinced that Aitken fully knows what he's doing. All in my humble obviously. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimistic Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I won't make Dundee, but without doubt, if ever our team needs us behind them its now, I love my team, win, lose or draw, and we have the right to be scathing if we feel it necessary, it's definitely too early to panic, we were never going to win this cup, but getting through the group would have been nice, I won't panic till end of October, if things are the same, a few more additions, and tweaks, we will start winning again, I'm sure 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, Sweet Pete said: Does it not just "feel" a bit wrong to you? Not enough players, poor early season performances / results, not seeming to know his strongest XI or best formation (particularly weird since he's worked with a lot of these players before with us and with Stranraer), nor the best positions for his players, getting his excuses in early, hopeless away from home for a whole year etc. not to mention the cutting of the budget and the scrapping of the U20s. I can't speak for anyone else, but it feels to me like this season is going to be a straightforward shitshow. I'm not particularly convinced that Aitken fully knows what he's doing. All in my humble obviously. Does it feel wrong? No, feels like every other season to me, the only thing I feel is wrong is the fact so many of our fans have us written off already. Not enough players? Aye, we'd like more, but we've known from the get go we need to work with a smaller squad so I'd rather we stopped bemoaning that fact and just got on with it. Poor early season performances? What's new. Not seeming to know his strongest 11? Aye, agreed he doesn't, but as I stated above he's still trying stuff out. I reckon by the start of the league season he'll have a good idea of his best 11. Cutting the budget and dropping the U20's just had to be done due to last seasons overspend, we know this. I have no doubt we still have a fantastic budget for a part time side, just not as good as we had last season. The only thing that concerns/annoys me is our away form and Aitken throwing excuses around left, right and centre but on the latter - he did it all last season, playing the part time card every time we got pumped. It's just the way he is. We've got a decent side there, I have no doubt of that. I understand there is some doubt over whether Aitken can get them playing as a decent side but I'd rather we waited until there was some more evidence other than two shitfests in a pish cup that the management aren't interested in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 You say we're not doomed and then go on to paint a picture that has us doomed, signing off with you being convinced we're not going to be good enough. We may well turn out not to be good enough, but two games in a cup competition which clearly the management are using to try things out (Fleming dropping into centre half and pushing wing backs right up the field when in possession last night for example) prove hee-haw other than us having a stinking attitude towards this cup (which is a historical thing for us Sons). When the draw was made our assistant manager even said there was little point in taking part/progressing. I wouldn't be surprised if we were looking to exit this cup sharpish, as much as fans don't like to hear it. Will 1 or 2 loans be enough? If they're the right players then absolutely. You only need to look at the difference Chris Kane and Jamie Lindsay have made to our teams over the last few years to know that. So lets just calm down and if we're sitting at the start of October and everyone's worst fears are confirmed then maybe we can panic. Folk shouting that Aitken will be out the door soon and we'll be lucky to avoid 10th is knicker wetting of the highest order. One person has mentioned Aitken being out the door. And we will be lucky to avoid 10th, just like every season in this division it will take a mammoth effort to do so.The rest is fully justified concerns after what was 2 unbelievably attrocious performances. Every single aspect of those performances were horrid. Even if we're treating it as pre season it's not how I'd expect us to perform in any type of game with our strongest 11 on the pitch.In terms of loans players being enough, sure they will add quality to the squad but 2 more bodies is simply not enough. They will only fill the void slots that Kassarate and Clark are currently filling. It's been massively evident to see that our main issue over the last couple of games is a severe lack of squad depth. One or two injuries at any point and we're struggling big time. Perhaps that big wage we're flinging in Stevo's direction should have been better utilised.It's only natural people will be concerned after performances like that with a massive season looming. It's how the human brain functions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameron2000 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I must admit I'm willing to give Aitken time but it's frustrating when he uses the it's tough away from home excuse just for East Fife to go away from home and pump us. Only Difference is the crowd. Why set up more defensive away from home like its a different sport all together? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said: One person has mentioned Aitken being out the door. And we will be lucky to avoid 10th, just like every season in this division it will take a mammoth effort to do so. The rest is fully justified concerns after what was 2 unbelievably attrocious performances. Every single aspect of those performances were horrid. Even if we're treating it as pre season it's not how I'd expect us to perform in any type of game with our strongest 11 on the pitch. In terms of loans players being enough, sure they will add quality to the squad but 2 more bodies is simply not enough. They will only fill the void slots that Kassarate and Clark are currently filling. It's been massively evident to see that our main issue over the last couple of games is a severe lack of squad depth. One or two injuries at any point and we're struggling big time. Perhaps that big wage we're flinging in Stevo's direction should have been better utilised. It's only natural people will be concerned after performances like that with a massive season looming. It's how the human brain functions. I don't remember us saying we'd be relegated last year when we lost to East Fife and Queens Park in cup competitions. We all targeted 8th last year, I don't see too many reasons as to why we shouldn't be targeting that again. Seems to be widely accepted by Sons fans that we're going down this year, whilst being favourites to do so why are we not buoyed by the fact that we've beaten expectations for pretty much the last 6 or 7 years. We have a squad of 17 players at the moment, 2 more takes us to 19 (including Kass and Clark), given the amount of passengers we've had over recent years I've no problem with us running a smaller squad of players we can actually use. We still have Darren Barr to come back who should let Garry move his arse further up the park and we'd actually have someone disciplined sitting in front of the defence. A best 11 was mentioned earlier, I don't think our team without Barr in it can be considered our best 11. If we've got our best 11 out there and we're being routinely pumped each week, I'll be the first one in here to bow to the apparent clairvoyance within the Sons support, but for now I'd like to just see how things go before getting concerned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, The Moonster said: I don't remember us saying we'd be relegated last year when we lost to East Fife and Queens Park in cup competitions. We all targeted 8th last year, I don't see too many reasons as to why we shouldn't be targeting that again. Seems to be widely accepted by Sons fans that we're going down this year, whilst being favourites to do so why are we not buoyed by the fact that we've beaten expectations for pretty much the last 6 or 7 years. We have a squad of 17 players at the moment, 2 more takes us to 19 (including Kass and Clark), given the amount of passengers we've had over recent years I've no problem with us running a smaller squad of players we can actually use. We still have Darren Barr to come back who should let Garry move his arse further up the park and we'd actually have someone disciplined sitting in front of the defence. A best 11 was mentioned earlier, I don't think our team without Barr in it can be considered our best 11. If we've got our best 11 out there and we're being routinely pumped each week, I'll be the first one in here to bow to the apparent clairvoyance within the Sons support, but for now I'd like to just see how things go before getting concerned. Just because you're not concerned, doesn't me no-one else can't be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Just now, Sweet Pete said: Just because you're not concerned, doesn't me no-one else can't be. They can be concerned if they like, I just don't think it's rational at this point in time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Just now, The Moonster said: They can be concerned if they like, I just don't think it's rational at this point in time. It's an on-going thing though (at least for me it is) as it is a continuation of concerns from last season which don't appear to have been addressed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 The thing that's making me slightly less worried - despite the horrendous nature of the past 2 performances - is the fact that we seem to be treating these games as pre-season friendlies. Would I be concerned with the results if they were pre-season games? Nope, so I'm trying not to get too hung up on them. That being said I really hoped Stevie would address the woeful away form from last season. It doesn't have to be good, but 4 away wins in the league next season is achievable for example. Unfortunately the Forfar performance was all too similar to last season away from home - started fine, conceded, played aimless long balls, looked less and less organised as time went on, came away with poor result. That's the most concerning aspect of the games so far for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Just now, Sweet Pete said: It's an on-going thing though (at least for me it is) as it is a continuation of concerns from last season which don't appear to have been addressed. Poor away form seems to be the only thing that's continued into this season, but we've only played one competitive away game (in a cup we are notoriously honking in). We had a lack of strikers last year, I count 5 players who can play up front in the squad. We moaned a lack of width and creativity and we went and got two actual wide players, one of which came with a creative reputation, Stevenson was obviously signed to be the quality in there and that remains to be seen, but I don't think he hasn't tried to address our problems. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 1 minute ago, The Moonster said: Poor away form seems to be the only thing that's continued into this season, but we've only played one competitive away game (in a cup we are notoriously honking in). We had a lack of strikers last year, I count 5 players who can play up front in the squad. We moaned a lack of width and creativity and we went and got two actual wide players, one of which came with a creative reputation, Stevenson was obviously signed to be the quality in there and that remains to be seen, but I don't think he hasn't tried to address our problems. I don't dispute that the main players are stronger, in fact I agree, if you look back in this very thread you'll see me stating my happiness with the signings and even my agreeability to running a "quality over quantity" squad this season. I still have doubts however about Aitken's ability to get the best out of the team and playing strikers at centre half and the likes does nothing to assuage me of those doubts. As for being notoriously shite in the League Cup, that shouldn't be a factor as the club's record in that competition is under a wide variety of different managers. Only results under Aitken are relevant to Aitken's tenure and not taking it seriously or using it as a series of pre-season fixtures is simply robbing the club of the potential to progress in the competition and robbing the fans who've paid their coin to watch competitive football games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Just now, Sweet Pete said: I don't dispute that the main players are stronger, in fact I agree, if you look back in this very thread you'll see me stating my happiness with the signings and even my agreeability to running a "quality over quantity" squad this season. I still have doubts however about Aitken's ability to get the best out of the team and playing strikers at centre half and the likes does nothing to assuage me of those doubts. As for being notoriously shite in the League Cup, that shouldn't be a factor as the club's record in that competition is under a wide variety of different managers. Only results under Aitken are relevant to Aitken's tenure and not taking it seriously or using it as a series of pre-season fixtures is simply robbing the club of the potential to progress in the competition and robbing the fans who've paid their coin to watch competitive football games. Fair enough. Ian Murray used the early season cup matches to experiment as well though, if Aitken is doing that and gets the team together for the start of the season then this will all be quickly forgotten about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Just now, The Moonster said: Fair enough. Ian Murray used the early season cup matches to experiment as well though, if Aitken is doing that and gets the team together for the start of the season then this will all be quickly forgotten about. I can't condone fucking about in competitive matches under any manager. If there's points, entry to the next round or prize money on offer then it should always be the strongest available team, with, crucially, players playing in their proper positions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) Realistically what would our strongest team be assuming everyone is injury free? Gaz doesn't look fit at the moment to me, although he's hardly been helped by being played just about everywhere. You could have him in for Stevo, but to be honest I'd rather have Stevo due to the fact he's always prepared to take the ball. He might not use it well, but he always makes himself available. Jamie Ewings Craig Pettigrew Gregor Buchanan Frazer Wright Mark Docherty Darren Barr David Smith Josh Todd Ryan Stevenson Andy Stirling Robert Thomson Something like this perhaps? I'd guess that team, set out rigidly, all knowing their roles (eg is Stirling goes Smith stays and vice versa) should be capable of getting a few decent results. You could drop Smith, play Todd wide right where he looked good last night and put Gaz upfront or into a CAM role I suppose as well, but I'm nor sure he's done enough to warrant a start in the past two games to be honest. Last night he reminded me a bit of when he first joined us, his first touch wasn't great but he chased it down, went on a few runs and lost the head a bit. Anybody heard anything/want to make up some loan rumours? Edited July 20, 2016 by Sonsteam of 08 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 27 minutes ago, Sweet Pete said: I don't dispute that the main players are stronger, in fact I agree, if you look back in this very thread you'll see me stating my happiness with the signings and even my agreeability to running a "quality over quantity" squad this season. I still have doubts however about Aitken's ability to get the best out of the team and playing strikers at centre half and the likes does nothing to assuage me of those doubts. As for being notoriously shite in the League Cup, that shouldn't be a factor as the club's record in that competition is under a wide variety of different managers. Only results under Aitken are relevant to Aitken's tenure and not taking it seriously or using it as a series of pre-season fixtures is simply robbing the club of the potential to progress in the competition and robbing the fans who've paid their coin to watch competitive football games. You can hardly blame clubs for doing that considering we are still in the middle of July. Indeed when the schedule was announced it was on the basis that this would be pre season stuff with more of a competitive edge. As far as I am concerned the SPFL have ruined the league cup by playing it now ( although not as much as they have ruined the Challenge Cup) and the panic being shown by some on here is way too premature 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Pete Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Just now, Nowhereman said: You can hardly blame clubs for doing that considering we are still in the middle of July. Indeed when the schedule was announced it was on the basis that this would be pre season stuff with more of a competitive edge. As far as I am concerned the SPFL have ruined the league cup by playing it now ( although not as much as they have ruined the Challenge Cup) and the panic being shown by some on here is way too premature I'm not panicking, I'm stating that I have concerns or reservations. Re: the League Cup scheduling, I agree that it's too early and devalues the competition, but the clubs knew when it was starting and should be making pre-season arrangements accordingly. If every club were treating it as a glorified kick about then every game would go to penalties. Clearly there are other clubs taking this competition seriously, yet they all had to start at the same time as us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimistic Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Barclay Pettigrew Buchanan Wright, Docherty? Todd Stevenson Gallagher Stirling Thomson Mccallum I'd like another lb Mccallum in to see if it works till Fleming fit, he deserves it for loyalty alone, and looks stronger If barr won't be back soon, Gallagher plays there I personally think our strikers are ok unless an excellent loanee comes along 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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