Sons' sorrow

[Tam Carson is my No 1]

As a fan who has had a season ticket to watch the Sons at Boghead, Cliftonhill and The Rock (CID) and seen them play at the likes of Stranraer, Brechin and Elgin I much prefer going to Tannadice, Falkirk and Easter Road. Not that the lower leagues is bad as they are normally good days out but there is something about going to a big stadium and silencing the home support. Long may it continue.

[Silverton End]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

Thought it was Rolls Royce he was with, dunno where I picked that up from mind.

Something I meant to mention in my original post is that what may count against Aitken moving on (and therefore work well for you) is his playing career was nothing stellar. He was effectively a lower league journeyman (dunno if he's been with enough clubs to class as a journeyman!) so he won't be talked up as much or get as much media attention and the like compared to someone like Gary Locke () or Darren Young, who is available and has been with the likes of Aberdeen and Dunfermline.

The likes of Brian Clough or Walter Smith weren't 'stellar' footballers either but forged successful careers in football management.

Stevie works just across the Erskine Bridge in nearby Renfrewshire, we train @ Benburb Juniors, just along the M8 & our Home ground forms the "Golden Triangle" as far as travelling goes for him. Seems ideal?

The local newspaper 'The Reporter' carried a story a few weeks ago that Stevie Aitken was keen to sign on again for next season.

Really hope so.

[lionel wickson]

It's probably an unfashionable point of view in P&B circles, but I want to see my team play at the highest possible level that they can achieve. I just don't get the "aye, what a cracking day out it is to Peterhead, Berwick" or wherever, if it means playing in the third or fourth tier. I started going to Sons games when there were only two divisions and we were finishing in what would now be the equivalent of mid table League 2. In relative terms, purely on the football side of things, this is a great time to be a Sons supporter. It won't last, so make the most of it.

[Scottylintonstowel]

1 hour ago, Tam Carson is my No 1 said:

As a fan who has had a season ticket to watch the Sons at Boghead, Cliftonhill and The Rock (CID) and seen them play at the likes of Stranraer, Brechin and Elgin I much prefer going to Tannadice, Falkirk and Easter Road. Not that the lower leagues is bad as they are normally good days out but there is something about going to a big stadium and silencing the home support. Long may it continue.

Got to admit I would rather go to the bigger stadiums but to be honest I preferred places like Ibrox Parkhead Easter Road Dens Park and in particular Firhill in their original appearance before they bacame all seaters. Walking round at half time was always a major part of going to a football match and could be done at most grounds in the days before strict segregation

[Stu]

7 hours ago, Silverton End said:

The likes of Brian Clough or Walter Smith weren't 'stellar' footballers either but forged successful careers in football management.

Stevie works just across the Erskine Bridge in nearby Renfrewshire, we train @ Benburb Juniors, just along the M8 & our Home ground forms the "Golden Triangle" as far as travelling goes for him. Seems ideal?

The local newspaper 'The Reporter' carried a story a few weeks ago that Stevie Aitken was keen to sign on again for next season.

Really hope so.

That wasn't the point I was making - can't be doing with the claim that you have to have played at a high level to be a good manager.

I was just wondering if the fact Aitken didn't play at a particularly high level counts against him when it comes to being linked with jobs elsewhere. Ian Murray was a big name, a former Hibs, Rangers and Scotland player, and got linked with a lower end Premiership job every time one came up. Aitken is doing a similar/better job, is also an up and coming young manager yet rarely seems to be mentioned - which is obviously good for Dumbarton fans!

[Jan Vojáček]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

That wasn't the point I was making - can't be doing with the claim that you have to have played at a high level to be a good manager.

I was just wondering if the fact Aitken didn't play at a particularly high level counts against him when it comes to being linked with jobs elsewhere. Ian Murray was a big name, a former Hibs, Rangers and Scotland player, and got linked with a lower end Premiership job every time one came up. Aitken is doing a similar/better job, is also an up and coming young manager yet rarely seems to be mentioned - which is obviously good for Dumbarton fans!

See the fact Barry Ferguson - a catastrophic failure at Clyde - was linked with one of the biggest jobs in the country, and has been tipped for just about every other vacancy going purely because he was the Rangers captain.

[squeezeboxson]

The thing with Stevie Aitken is, guys appear to really enjoy working with him. Players seem to respect him and I would debate that some of the players we have in the squad currently have signed up to work with him as much as play for Dumbarton in this league.

I almost get the feeling that he is one of very few managers in the country who could have got away with the player criticism after the cup defeat. It had the perfect resulting effect and without sounding silly, I think losing that game is essentially what has kept us in this league. Had we ended up scraping through that game to then lose to Hibs in the next round, the turnaround probably wouldn't have happened.

On another note, I know there's only one game left of the season, but does anyone else think that Yogi has tried the same approach in desperation after Saturday - in the hope they can get the result they need against Ayr?

Edited May 2, 2017 by squeezeboxson

[Bluegrass Bairn]

17 minutes ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

See the fact Barry Ferguson - a catastrophic failure at Clyde - was linked with one of the biggest jobs in the country, and has been tipped for just about every other vacancy going purely because he was the Rangers captain.

Sooner the press get him the job at Govan  the better - for all the rest of us!  Inept waster that he is would be so hilariously bad it'd make for the most fabulous car-crash viewing since, em,  McCoist's circus troupe were in town. 

[Skyline Drifter]

2 hours ago, Stu said:

That wasn't the point I was making - can't be doing with the claim that you have to have played at a high level to be a good manager.

I was just wondering if the fact Aitken didn't play at a particularly high level counts against him when it comes to being linked with jobs elsewhere. Ian Murray was a big name, a former Hibs, Rangers and Scotland player, and got linked with a lower end Premiership job every time one came up. Aitken is doing a similar/better job, is also an up and coming young manager yet rarely seems to be mentioned - which is obviously good for Dumbarton fans!

Not sure it's entirely comparable, though I don't disagree with your point.

Murray came in to Dumbarton and, whether it be an easier division at that point or not, took a team heading for relegation on a spectacular rise halfway up the league and even challenged for the playoffs the following season, albeit they ended up 5th. At the point he departed Dumbarton they were relatively similar to where they are now but that was probably his lowest ebb at Dumbarton. I think Aitken's done a good job in possibly a harder division, and having to change his squad every year but five months ago a majority of Dumbarton fans, on here at least, wanted him sacked. And whilst it's easy to dismiss that as a knee jerk reaction to the Bonnyrigg defeat, they were shouting for that even before the Cup. Credit to their Board for sticking with him and he's done superbly to bring them back. I don't think his stock has ever been as high with Dumbarton as Murray's was though, certainly for a while, though I accept Murray's higher profile assisted with that.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Skyline Drifter

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

I'm still not fully convinced Aitken 100% wants to stay tbh. I certainly don't want to read too much into that Reporter article, that could easily have been a case of trying to alert other clubs to the fact there's a deal on the table if he wants it.

 

Will he fancy another brutal scrap for survival? Will he fancy a potential relegation on his CV? I'm not convinced he will...

 

 

[The Moonster]

25 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

Will he fancy another brutal scrap for survival? Will he fancy a potential relegation on his CV? I'm not convinced he will...

I'm not convinced either but he may not have any other options. I suppose he'll need to weigh up if staying with us (possibly being the only part time team in the league) and fighting relegation is preferable to taking some time off and waiting for the right job to come up.  Realistically, what full-time clubs will be looking for a gaffer in a few weeks time? Raith is one but they've already overlooked him, other than that every other team in the division has a gaffer that is safe.

I hope once the Falkirk game is out of the way he gets the deal signed and we can start planning, we don't want this to drag on.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

I'm not convinced either but he may not have any other options. I suppose he'll need to weigh up if staying with us (possibly being the only part time team in the league) and fighting relegation is preferable to taking some time off and waiting for the right job to come up.  Realistically, what full-time clubs will be looking for a gaffer in a few weeks time? Raith is one but they've already overlooked him, other than that every other team in the division has a gaffer that is safe.
I hope once the Falkirk game is out of the way he gets the deal signed and we can start planning, we don't want this to drag on.

I agree.

I'd like to think we'll be looking to resolve the situation asap. Especially considering you have Darren Young out of contract and available on a free. He'd surely be high up on any potential replacement lists and we'd be mad to let an opportunity pass us by if Stevie decides to hum and haw over a decision.

Either way I hope it's resolved quickly and Aitken is with us next season.

[lorenzo71]

2 hours ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

 

I agree.

I'd like to think we'll be looking to resolve the situation asap. Especially considering you have Darren Young out of contract and available on a free. He'd surely be high up on any potential replacement lists and we'd be mad to let an opportunity pass us by if Stevie decides to hum and haw over a decision.

Either way I hope it's resolved quickly and Aitken is with us next season.

 

I think it is clear that Stevie would relish a full time managers position..he wouldnt have gone along to the Raith interview if he werent interested.I guess he was  weighing up the full time wages vs what he is on now.Staying on would i think be good for both parties but if a bigger club came along would he say no?I think if he were to jump ship it would be to a premiership club like hamilton for example.A lot will depend on who is playing where next season.That goes for us too.If changes are afoot i would like to see Darren Young given a chance.

Edited May 2, 2017 by lorenzo71

[Young gun]

A sign of the times but I find it sad that during arguably the best run of seasons for the Sons, there has been no increase in fans through the gate.

1972 - 1976 was the only other time Sons had any sort of success 

It's a sign of football though,the match experience is good and Sons hospitality is great value but still the old story buses leaving the town on a Saturday.

Morton are the  same ,having a great season ,yet their crowds are only around 1500.

Stevie Aitken should be manager of the year for what he has done 

I wish Sons every success net season and hope they hang on to their manager

 

 

[Scottylintonstowel]

1 hour ago, Young gun said:

A sign of the times but I find it sad that during arguably the best run of seasons for the Sons, there has been no increase in fans through the gate.

1972 - 1976 was the only other time Sons had any sort of success 

It's a sign of football though,the match experience is good and Sons hospitality is great value but still the old story buses leaving the town on a Saturday.

Morton are the  same ,having a great season ,yet their crowds are only around 1500.

Stevie Aitken should be manager of the year for what he has done 

I wish Sons every success net season and hope they hang on to their manager

 

 

Average attendances thus

1971/72- 3217

1972/73- 5772

1973/74- 4422

1974/75- 4343

The late fifties were also good although the team was in second division

1955/56- 3917

1956/57- 4194

1957/58- 4389

1958/59- 3144

In those days children were lifted over at the gate and thus crowds were always several hundred more than attendance given.

[The Moonster]

I've just done a quick Google search but can't find figures, can anyone tell me what the population of Dumbarton would have been during the 70s? 

[Silverton End]

16 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I've just done a quick Google search but can't find figures, can anyone tell me what the population of Dumbarton would have been during the 70s? 

Appears to have been around 25,000 in 1970, peaked at around 26,000 in 1960 and today it's now roughly 20,000.

 

ETA in 2011 it was recorded as being 17,439.

For the whole of West Dunbartonshire though it's 90,000

Edited May 2, 2017 by Silverton End

[The Moonster]

Just now, Silverton End said:

Appears to have been around 25,000 in 1970, peaked at around 26,000 in 1960 and today it's now roughly 20,000.

Cheers, I figured there would be a drop but I did expect it to be a bit more than that. Still, 6,000 less people to entice now than there was back then, it'll have an effect.

 

[Silverton End]

1 minute ago, The Moonster said:

Cheers, I figured there would be a drop but I did expect it to be a bit more than that. Still, 6,000 less people to entice now than there was back then, it'll have an effect.

 

Aye.

I had another wee search & edited my post.

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, Silverton End said:

Aye.

I had another wee search & edited my post.

Pretty depressing those figures. It's almost criminal how the town has been left to decay over the last 40 years, not only in the way it looks but employment wise.