Sons' sorrow

[Deputy Keeper]

29 minutes ago, Paul Mc said:

No relationship with any Hosie I had not heard of the Hosies a month ago. Everyone I have met has been first class and seem to absolutely have the best interests of the club at heart. I wouldn’t have gotten involved if I thought otherwise.

Paul,

Thanks for your replies   Just to be clear, were you at the Bonnyrigg match on Saturday with Andy Hosie?

[Paul Mc]

1 minute ago, Deputy Keeper said:

Paul,

Thanks for your replies   Just to be clear, were you at the Bonnyrigg match on Saturday with Andy Hosie?

I was. I didn’t get the memo about shirt and tie though the Bonnyrigg lady was not happy! 

[Paul Mc]

4 minutes ago, Boghead ranter said:

Hi Paul, I'd echo the previous thanks to you for actually engaging with us ordinary fans in a public forum.

To take your final paragraph 1st, if that's true, and you're as honest and decent a guy as you're portraying yourself to be, then I really really hope that you haven't been rope-a-doped into something that works out poorly for you.

You also said you didn't read far enough back to see that a previous director engaged on here for a short while, if you had done (and maybe even further back), you'd see that promises like today's release have been made, and not delivered on, many, many times.

Us fans want success, stability and security for the club even more than you do, we really do, and there's nothing we'd like more than this vision to be delivered.

BUT

Every time a promise dissipates into the void, only to be remembered in this thread, our belief in the next promise is lessened. Then that promise isn't delivered, so belief drops more. You seem an intelligent guy, so I'm not going to labour the point, you know what I mean. I appreciate this post may come across as "GTF, we've heard all this before", but it isn't meant that way, honestly.

Words typed on the club website or on here are exactly that, just words. The only thing that will get fans believing, and sharing your vision, is actual tangible progress towards it. Seeing confirmation of an all-weather pitch* (particularly if we're working on a groundshare model of financing) would be a great start, imo.

*PS I see the fans Facebook group comments seem to be mostly settling on "f**k astro, keep the grass" but please don't take too much stock in that group - a high percentage of them are absolute knickerwetting roasters.

I get it. Think that’s why I’ve been very careful not to make any promises beyond my intentions to contribute as best as I can. You don’t turn these things around with words, it’s actions. 

[Paul Mc]

16 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I admire your ambition and perhaps we are missing something commercially that would help boost funds but going to even a hybrid full time/part time side would require a huge investment and an organisation level we probably haven't seen in my life time of 34 years. For years now we have been run by one or two people at any given time and to get to the level you are talking we need more than what we have. How much do you plan on being involved, with it noted you've said you'll be a junior member of the board?

One final question, are you aware of the situation with the clubs land and are you comfortable with our liabilities in that respect? 

Totally agree even getting a core to full time is a hell of a job. If you want to do it sustainably you which we do. 
Believe me the commercials can be improved massively. I’ve worked with Chester FC and some Northern Irish clubs and they are streets ahead. That’s not to be dismissive of what people, many of whom are volunteers, have done. But we need a really good framework to get this right. 
I can volunteer roughly 10-15 hours a week and evenings and when I get the kids to bed. I have good people in my business who have thankfully replaced a lot of my day to day work. 
Also it’s not just me. My partner Rachel is the best operator I have ever seen in terms of systems/processes. She’s a nerd really but nothing works without her. At our core we despise inefficiencies and that’s really what I want to get involved with making things work better.

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, Paul Mc said:

Totally agree even getting a core to full time is a hell of a job. If you want to do it sustainably you which we do. 
Believe me the commercials can be improved massively. I’ve worked with Chester FC and some Northern Irish clubs and they are streets ahead. That’s not to be dismissive of what people, many of whom are volunteers, have done. But we need a really good framework to get this right. 
I can volunteer roughly 10-15 hours a week and evenings and when I get the kids to bed. I have good people in my business who have thankfully replaced a lot of my day to day work. 
Also it’s not just me. My partner Rachel is the best operator I have ever seen in terms of systems/processes. She’s a nerd really but nothing works without her. At our core we despise inefficiencies and that’s really what I want to get involved with making things work better.

Thanks for your time and openness. I wish you every success as this club really does need lifting, and to be honest I need a lot of convincing myself to start throwing £250 at the club every summer. As ranter says the board will be judged on their actions but I appreciate you looking to engage, I've no doubt we'll speak again

 

[Sweet Pete]

11 minutes ago, Paul Mc said:

I get it. Think that’s why I’ve been very careful not to make any promises beyond my intentions to contribute as best as I can. You don’t turn these things around with words, it’s actions. 

Sounds fairly positive. You're making the right noises. And kudos for coming on and making yourself available. That's admirable. I've done some work for the club and know that it's run on a skeleton crew, so very happy to see both investment and ideas put in. I'll readily admit that as a fanbase we're somewhat sceptical of trojan horses because of the seemingly endless stream of land deals and false dawns that have been presented in the last decade or so. However, the club is well supported for the level(s) we occupy and, as one of the country's oldest professional football teams, it's dear to the hearts of many in the local community, and the Dumbarton diaspora. With that firmly in mind, I wish you every success in building the club that we all love and hope that you'll remember that a football club is more than a limited company, a business or an "opportunity". I ask only that you keep in mind one thing before making any decision: "How would I feel if this were the club I support?".

[FifeSons]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for reaching out.

You mention you were at the match with Andy Hosie. What’s your connection with him? Are you simply on the board because Mr Hosie is legally prevented from being on it himself?

Edited August 6, 2023 by FifeSons

[Paul Mc]

6 minutes ago, Sweet Pete said:

Sounds fairly positive. You're making the right noises. And kudos for coming on and making yourself available. That's admirable. I've done some work for the club and know that it's run on a skeleton crew, so very happy to see both investment and ideas put in. I'll readily admit that as a fanbase we're somewhat sceptical of trojan horses because of the seemingly endless stream of land deals and false dawns that have been presented in the last decade or so. However, the club is well supported for the level(s) we occupy and, as one of the country's oldest professional football teams, it's dear to the hearts of many in the local community, and the Dumbarton diaspora. With that firmly in mind, I wish you every success in building the club that we all love and hope that you'll remember that a football club is more than a limited company, a business or an "opportunity". I ask only that you keep in mind one thing before making any decision: "How would I feel if this were the club I support?".

Thanks very kind. 

[Paul Mc]

7 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

Hi Paul,

Thanks for reaching out.

You mention you were at the match with Andy Hosie. What’s your connection with him? Are you simply on the board because Mr Hosie is legally prevented from being on it himself?

Think I mentioned this earlier. No connection with Andy or any other Hosie. I never heard of Hosie a month ago. 
I’m on the board as representative of JPM capital who have invested a not insignificant amount of cash into Dumbarton FC. 
I’m not a spokesman for anybody other than myself really and to be honest I suspect jumping on a fan forum on day 1 may not be kindly viewed, but I told everyone that fan engagement is important to me so it shouldn’t come as a surprise. 

[FifeSons]

2 minutes ago, Paul Mc said:

Think I mentioned this earlier. No connection with Andy or any other Hosie. I never heard of Hosie a month ago. 
I’m on the board as representative of JPM capital who have invested a not insignificant amount of cash into Dumbarton FC. 
I’m not a spokesman for anybody other than myself really and to be honest I suspect jumping on a fan forum on day 1 may not be kindly viewed, but I told everyone that fan engagement is important to me so it shouldn’t come as a surprise. 

Fair enough, yes, you did. I’m just out of Oppenheimer and hadn’t read the previous page. I will take you on your word, because association with A.Hosie is about as big a red flag as it can get for Sons fans.

Please get rid of Farrell, he’s bloody useless.

 

[Paul Mc]

9 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

Fair enough, yes, you did. I’m just out of Oppenheimer and hadn’t read the previous page. I will take you on your word, because association with A.Hosie is about as big a red flag as it can get for Sons fans.

Please get rid of Farrell, he’s bloody useless.

 

Watched it on Tuesday this week, superb movie. 
definitely not my call on manager but for what it’s worth on the footballing side (which I will have very little to do with at this stage) I have always been a big believer this is an entertainment sport. Match day experience and everything that goes into that is big for me. Looked on Saturday that Farrell was trying attacking 4-3-3 and the new winger looks super fast so that should be fun if we get him going. 

[FifeSons]

7 minutes ago, Paul Mc said:

Watched it on Tuesday this week, superb movie. 
definitely not my call on manager but for what it’s worth on the footballing side (which I will have very little to do with at this stage) I have always been a big believer this is an entertainment sport. Match day experience and everything that goes into that is big for me. Looked on Saturday that Farrell was trying attacking 4-3-3 and the new winger looks super fast so that should be fun if we get him going. 

Given we kept him, this season has to be a clean slate for the manager, which I’m struggling with, so let’s see what happens.

There’s been a lot of big talk around DFC (probably for much longer than I can remember), with the aforementioned manager doing his own fair share, with little delivered. Hopefully that may help you understand the skepticism around announcements like this.

I’d settle for their just being a club to support at SPFL level.

Edited August 6, 2023 by FifeSons

[Deputy Keeper]

39 minutes ago, Paul Mc said:

Think I mentioned this earlier. No connection with Andy or any other Hosie. I never heard of Hosie a month ago. 
 

Thanks for clarifying.  In fairness to Sons fans on here, there will be two things that spooked them about a possible Hosie connection:

1.  Residence in the North West of England

2. An apparent similarity between the company Sure Bets Pro Ltd., of which yourself and partner Rachel are Directors; and a company called Bet Butler (prop. A Hosie), which collapsed in 2015 with debts of £7m+ and resulted in AH being banned from being a Director of any company for 12 years for serious misconduct..

[Frank Quitely]

8 hours ago, FifeSons said:

Given we kept him, this season has to be a clean slate for the manager, which I’m struggling with, so let’s see what happens.

There’s been a lot of big talk around DFC (probably for much longer than I can remember), with the aforementioned manager doing his own fair share, with little delivered. Hopefully that may help you understand the skepticism around announcements like this.

I’d settle for their just being a club to support at SPFL level.

The extremely modest and rather sad sentiment in that last sentence is an eloquent condemnation of the last 15 years plus ownership of first Brabco followed by Cognitive Capital, where a fixation with land speculation has come at a cost of Dumbarton Football Club dropping two divisions.

I genuinely wish you well @Paul Mc in trying to alter that mindset.  And try you must if you intend to fulfill your stated ambitions.

[super-son]

I would be delighted if we can get a 4G pitch installed at the current ground but only if it is done correctly in a financial sense. It opens up many different revenue streams and means we will have a much higher chance of getting our games to go ahead.

Paul, would you mind if I ask exactly what is in this investment for yourself? If this is simply a case of having some free time and wanting to be involved in a football club, why Dumbarton and not another team? For us fans, it seems strange that someone would invest, using your own words here, a not insignificant amount of money without a clear way of getting that money back and then some.

Everyone is rightly sceptical about your involvement but you have certainly came across well initially with your posts on here and maybe this will earn you the benefit of doubt with a few that other ventures have not. I hope your presence is a positive one here and wish you all the best, we are all desperate for some honest communication from the board. 

[pleslie99]

Paul, with all due respect everyone is sceptical because we have seen this all before. I appreciate you coming on and trying to explain yourself but as someone said above, we will believe it when we see it, words only go so far.

You asked in a reply to my earlier post “show me where to make money in a L2 club?”. And that there is exactly why I’m reserving my judgment and remaining sceptical. You and your company have invested ‘not an insignificant amount’ into the club apparently but expect no return. Why? I’m not exactly clued up on boardrooms but you getting a junior position I assume means you won’t be making any major decisions? 
The last guy that came in and promised us milk and honey, sailed off into the sunset without so much as leaving us a Norwegian wonder kid. Now you’re here telling us we’re going to be a FT championship club……. 
If you’re serious about this explain what’s going to be different! Due diligence must’ve been completed therefore you can see we are skint, we are a million miles away from FT football. 
What makes Dumbarton a more attractive proposition than one of the other L2 clubs that are actively ambitious and have structures in place to succeed, or indeed a LL or WOS team? Absolutely nothing to do with the land our ground sits on I’m sure…….

[Jordo1872]

23 hours ago, Paul Mc said:

In terms of what I want to achieve. Stable, championship club. 

As many have already said Paul, thank you for coming on to P&B and engaging with supporters. At the very least that’s a step up from what we’ve had from previous boardroom appointments. It is welcomed and appreciated and I hope your promise of open and honest discussion is honoured long term.

You stated your aim would be to achieve a stable championship club and that’s an objective every Sons fan would get fully behind, if done sustainably. However you will also appreciate that to achieve this aim the infrastructure at the club must be enhanced. One critical requirement being the stadium and parking facilities required to maximise championship level income through match day attendance.

With that in mind I would draw your attention to, although I suspect you may already be familiar with, West  Dunbartonshire Council’s planning portal and in particular planning application DC22/238/FUL.

The implications of this development going ahead, and the significant loss of club land to a private housing development, would severely restrict match day parking and in my view end any long term growth of the club at our current home. 

I therefore have two very direct questions for you, if I may.

1. Are you aware of this planning application and has this influenced your decision to join the club board?

2. if this application was to be refused, would it have any impact on your future involvement at DFC?

I appreciate your invitation to discuss your plans with fans and would happily take you up on that offer over a beer at this coming Saturdays match.

 

 

 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Anyway, Oppenheimer, what a fantastic movie it is and the cherry on the cake was the new Tennents advert in the trailers.

So, anything been happening troops ?

[THE CHOSEN SON]

32 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Anyway, Oppenheimer, what a fantastic movie it is and the cherry on the cake was the new Tennents advert in the trailers.

So, anything been happening troops ?

Rumours of Armand One signing I’ve heard 

[Paul Mc]

On 07/08/2023 at 11:21, super-son said:

I would be delighted if we can get a 4G pitch installed at the current ground but only if it is done correctly in a financial sense. It opens up many different revenue streams and means we will have a much higher chance of getting our games to go ahead.

Paul, would you mind if I ask exactly what is in this investment for yourself? If this is simply a case of having some free time and wanting to be involved in a football club, why Dumbarton and not another team? For us fans, it seems strange that someone would invest, using your own words here, a not insignificant amount of money without a clear way of getting that money back and then some.

Everyone is rightly sceptical about your involvement but you have certainly came across well initially with your posts on here and maybe this will earn you the benefit of doubt with a few that other ventures have not. I hope your presence is a positive one here and wish you all the best, we are all desperate for some honest communication from the board. 

Yeah I think we would all be delighted if/when we can get the artificial pitch in. Even finances aside, it offers great community benefits and you hit the nail on the head with making sure the games go ahead. Moving games from Saturday afternoon to Tuesday night is a nightmare scenario for a bunch of different reasons.

What's in it for me? Nothing financial, I can say that for sure. I love football and it has always been my dream to be involved. I guess I always thought when I sold my finance company I would buy a club, but when this opportunity came along I thought it makes a lot of sense for me to get involved at a smaller level and learn the intricacies first hand. Why specifically Dumbarton? Well the opportunity and introduction was there. I had good conversations and got a good feeling about what I could add to the situation. I saw some pretty clear process gaps that I know I could fill and the connection to Scotland is big for me too.