Sons' sorrow

[Elrow]

On 15/02/2024 at 20:40, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I see that Johnstone Burgh progressed in the Scottish Junior Cup last Saturday by beating St Cadoc's 4-1 in a penalty shoot-out after a 3-3 draw.  If Harry Broun played then it seems he performed well in the shoot-out.

He played and was the hero for the shootout. They were all celebrating in Kong on Saturday and was speaking to one of his teammates. 

[The Moonster]

6 hours ago, pleslie99 said:

Took in the u-20s game tonight vs the Vale. I don’t see any of them breaking into the 1st team anytime soon, and I include Luca Vata in that. The Vale are doing all the right things with youth development and there is a clear pathway to the 1st team (albeit at a much lower level) We took over a youth team, renamed them as our under 20s and have next to nothing feeding into it. We should be looking at the youth as a potential way to get some up and coming talents but we aren’t even the best or even 2nd best youth side in the area.

Nothing feeds into it? I thought DU fed into it?

Youth development is a waste of time for clubs at our level IMO. Too much money for little return. I'm not surprised to hear that this is working out as a half hearted effort. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

3 hours ago, Elrow said:

He played and was the hero for the shootout. They were all celebrating in Kong on Saturday and was speaking to one of his teammates. 

The Burgh are obviously flush with cash when they can fly to Asia after a game.

[Grumpysonoftherock]

15 hours ago, pleslie99 said:

Took in the u-20s game tonight vs the Vale. I don’t see any of them breaking into the 1st team anytime soon, and I include Luca Vata in that. The Vale are doing all the right things with youth development and there is a clear pathway to the 1st team (albeit at a much lower level) We took over a youth team, renamed them as our under 20s and have next to nothing feeding into it. We should be looking at the youth as a potential way to get some up and coming talents but we aren’t even the best or even 2nd best youth side in the area.

In defence of the youth setup. I’d agree the standard isn’t the best (possibly with exception of Smallwood, Vata, McMenemy & Longster who I’ve seen a few times and look good players), however, there has been a good bit of movement over the last couple of months to try and get it right behind the scenes. It’ll take time, as what they’ve picked up was a bit of a mess. 

Also, worth noting that the majority of those players last night were either 17 or 18 years old and a good few had only just stepped up from the 19s.  

However, it’ll only really get better once there’s proof of players getting their chance with first team which will entice more players to join, plus to have some sort of 3G setup where they can train and play would be a massive help. 

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

23 minutes ago, Grumpysonoftherock said:

However, it’ll only really get better once there’s proof of players getting their chance with first team which will entice more players to join, plus to have some sort of 3G setup where they can train and play would be a massive help. 

Dumbarton FC are scrapping away in a league that can lead to relegation out of the SPFL. We aren’t remotely in a position to be giving games to random youngsters who aren’t good enough in order to entice more players to join the setup. The SFA’s “Project Brave” killed off any hope of teams like DFC having a good youth setup (despite local mums and dads liking to point the finger at clubs themselves). If we had a player who looked even semi decent they’d be snapped up by one of the bigger fish long before they get a chance to flourish in our first team.

[Grumpysonoftherock]

12 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

Dumbarton FC are scrapping away in a league that can lead to relegation out of the SPFL. We aren’t remotely in a position to be giving games to random youngsters who aren’t good enough in order to entice more players to join the setup. The SFA’s “Project Brave” killed off any hope of teams like DFC having a good youth setup (despite local mums and dads liking to point the finger at clubs themselves). If we had a player who looked even semi decent they’d be snapped up by one of the bigger fish long before they get a chance to flourish in our first team.

I’d agree we can’t give anyone a game. Double edged sword, you need the quality to entice more quality. 
 

but, atleast there’s some people in there behind the scenes who are looking to get some kind of quality in through the door rather than just giving anyone who turns up to training a game. 
 

however, at under 20s, most “top quality” players are already snapped up. But there is still quality in there in particular players who’ve maybe been released by the bigger clubs and looking for another chance to establish themselves. 

[BallochSonsFan]

6 minutes ago, Grumpysonoftherock said:

I’d agree we can’t give anyone a game. Double edged sword, you need the quality to entice more quality. 
 

but, atleast there’s some people in there behind the scenes who are looking to get some kind of quality in through the door rather than just giving anyone who turns up to training a game. 
 

however, at under 20s, most “top quality” players are already snapped up. But there is still quality in there in particular players who’ve maybe been released by the bigger clubs and looking for another chance to establish themselves. 

We've got one such player warming the bench today. Because Farrell is doing Farrell things.

[BallochSonsFan]

We've played 10 league games since the start of December. Today is the 11th. We've won twice.

2 wins in 10 games. 4 draws. 4 losses.

Any other club and the manager would be hauled into the boardroom and either given the dreaded vote of confidence or told to empty his office. I'm not convinced that the Dumbarton board will do either, and that's worse. At least if they gave Farrell a public vote of confidence then you'd have expected that they did consider punting him. That they were concerned by results and had demanded that things improved. Set some kind of target for improvement.

2 wins in 10 games. Realistic chance that becomes 2 in 11 since the start of December. Stranraer next week could make it 2 wins in 3 months if things don't go our way today or next Saturday.

Stevie Farrell is an absolute gent. I will never criticise Farrell the person. When you see how he treats people then it's clear why folk are happy to work with him and why he convinces people that he's capable. He has incredible belief in himself, but he still remains a fundamentally decent and personable guy. It's absolutely not personal.

But Dumbarton are a club in crisis on the park.

Lead by a board who have shown absolutely no indication that they are capable of making the difficult decisions, or even that they're holding the manager to any kind of standard.

If it wasn't for our early season form, we'd be properly involved in a relegation play-off battle. We'd be fighting for the club's League Two future. 

[FifeSons]

50 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

If it wasn't for our early season form, we'd be properly involved in a relegation play-off battle. We'd be fighting for the club's League Two future. 

100%

[BallochSonsFan]

2 wins in 11 games.

Continued uncertainty around our ownership and their plans for the club.

Problems attracting sponsors.

Problems attracting fans.

We are a club in crisis. Performances and results on the pitch are in free fall. The performance of the club board is equally unacceptable. There appears to be absolutely no leadership from the boardroom. A chairman who only becomes visible and animated when he perceives personal criticism in a newspaper article. A chairman who will never engage with the wider fanbase. Never put himself out there to address the very real concerns of the Dumbarton support. A chairman with a fantasy vision for the club that is divorced from the reality of Dumbarton FC right now.

Crisis club is a very well earned label for Dumbarton right now. A shambles on the pitch and absolutely no indication of leadership off it.

This can''t continue.

[FifeSons]

We’ll be in the same situation as Clyde next season if we don’t get rid of MacKay and Farrell. I hope there’s some real anger directed at MacKay next week. I don’t think any change is going to happen, but it’s time to start kicking up a fuss as a fanbase, or we’re going to sleepwalk into the abyss.

[Sons fan 1872]

What was the fans reaction at full time? 

[To B or not B]

I feel for you guys as a fanbase, you are one of the very few clubs who welcomed us and treated us well when we were promoted. Looking in from the outside it seems owners couldn’t give a toss about the football club, and just want the land. In essence it looks as though they are trying to run the club down, and would be happy if you weren’t there.

[Jan Vojáček]

30 minutes ago, Sons fan 1872 said:

What was the fans reaction at full time? 

I'd say the reaction in the lead up to conceding the penalty was actually stronger than at full-time. By that stage there was a degree of acceptance - the usual boos and 'chuck it Farrell' but not a great deal beyond that.

A wee group of the more vocal younger guys had a run-in with a very well known voice from matches, who was previously right on the teams back all the time, but seems to have mellowed in recent years. He was losing the place over their calls for Faz's head I think?

I'd actually rather there was a furious reaction at FT. The half-arsed booing and shoulder shrugging is just another sign of how deflated the whole mood is around the place at the moment.

Today was the worst we've played all season. Clyde bossed the game from the first minute and, imo, 3-0 would've been a fair reflection of their dominance. We didn't look up for it, we were slow-paced, predictable and lacked invention. It was an utterly miserable way to spend an afternoon. One of the most deflating and grim (not outright infuriating) in quite a while.

[the_bully_wee]

The poor current form constitutes a massive drop-off, of course, but the more compelling grounds for canning Farrell is the fact that the pattern of starting brightly and completely falling apart has now been a feature of each of his seasons in charge. There's no doubt he has a keen eye for a player, but the football he has the team playing is all a bit too nicey-nice. At 2-0 up I'd have been bricking it against most sides today, but I never really felt that Dumbarton were capable of mounting a serious late challenge. A very soft side, and that's the key difference between yourselves and Stenhousemuir.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

26 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

A wee group of the more vocal younger guys had a run-in with a very well known voice from matches, who was previously right on the teams back all the time, but seems to have mellowed in recent years. He was losing the place over their calls for Faz's head I think?

What a bizarre stance for that buffoon to take, especially considering I spent years listening to him berate players and managers whilst we held our own in the Championship. 

I notice he has a minor involvement at the club these days so he’s obviously become pally with Farrell which makes him immune to criticism.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

That was a new low today, and I don't mean defeat by a team at the bottom of the division.

For possibly the first time in a long while I was watching players who looked completely devoid of confidence, belief, spirit, call it what you will, with some of them really struggling with the basics.

One thing is for sure.  If anyone thinks we can now be guaranteed fourth spot and a Play-Off place then they might be in for a shock, because I'm really struggling to identify a League Two team we could be confident of beating right now.  We could well be having the stats for the second-half of the season that Clyde had for the first half.  Yes, that bad.

The Board may try to ride things out, and hope that everything just turns out OK - that appears to be their position on most things.  That won't cut it though the longer this slump goes on, and especially if it continues into next season.  Everyone else can see it, but can they ?

[microdave]

I'm not sure what I think is worse. Keeping Farrell on or trusting the chairman to appoint a new manager. Which is (just one of the reasons) why both should be leaving their posts.

[FifeSons]

33 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

One thing is for sure.  If anyone thinks we can now be guaranteed fourth spot and a Play-Off place then they might be in for a shock, because I'm really struggling to identify a League Two team we could be confident of beating right now. 

I don’t think we’ll even make the playoffs now. This team is done, he’s not turning it around. We’ll struggle to scrape a handful more points this season. The downward trajectory is frightening. We’re just lucky the two wins we’ve managed in the last 11 will be enough to keep us out of the bad playoffs.

[FifeSons]

This is the worst it’s been since the end of the McCabe era. If anything this feels even worse, despite us being in a better league position than then. Doesn’t feel like there’s any hope or light at the end of the tunnel, and just loads of nastiness and unpleasantness around the club right now, with the Chairman and owners. You also didn’t have relegation from L2 back then. Something that feels like an approaching inevitability.

Edited February 17 by FifeSons