BallochSonsFan Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Definitely needed. The lack of home games is leaving me a little disconnected from football right now. Still feels like the club is distant with no home games to watch. It was always going to be an alien feeling following games online only, but the lack of home league fixtures is certainly an added issue. Won't be helping the players either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverton End Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 RIP Frazer MacLeod, a good Sons fan since our schooldays, but above all a lovely guy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarti pooh Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) Interviews up on the streaming site with Denny Johnstone and Ruaridh Langan. We'll try keep these going through the season and try get some ex sons on the go as well. Edited November 19, 2020 by sarti pooh 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghead ranter Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Article from SHOOT! magazine, 3rd May 1980. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: Two good posts BSF, but as you say, this issue does not belong on a match thread. Rest assured though it will not remain dormant, as every Sons fan needs to be aware of the bind the club now finds itself in. Just bringing this chat over here out the way. Is there something happening with Brabco just now that fans should be aware of? With the stadium move dying I'd assumed they were just hanging around in the trees like vultures until the day we die and they can sell the land, or they'd find someone daft enough to pay what they want for their shares. Are they doing something just now that accelerates either of those scenarios? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedrick1 Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) Interesting story on club site about young goalie. never one to dismiss development of youth but can’t help but wonder where this is going with no sub goalie yesterday. will he make the bench Tuesday best wishes to the lad. Edited November 22, 2020 by cedrick1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 2 hours ago, The Moonster said: Just bringing this chat over here out the way. Is there something happening with Brabco just now that fans should be aware of? With the stadium move dying I'd assumed they were just hanging around in the trees like vultures until the day we die and they can sell the land, or they'd find someone daft enough to pay what they want for their shares. Are they doing something just now that accelerates either of those scenarios? Brabco appears to no longer be a coherent unit and communication between them and the DFC Board is now minimal. Whilst I understand that there had been some measure of funding forthcoming in the past, that seems unlikely in future, with the DFC Board now effectively trying to guide the club thro a time of social and financial crisis. Whilst the first one will hopefully ease, as things stand the second will certainly not and we risk entering a process of managed decline in which the ultimate beneficiary can only be the majority shareholder. Whether Brabco are now acting like a loose collection of vultures is a moot point but one thing is for sure, in terms of fundraising you only get one hit at a public appeal, and we've already done that. In terms of the current situation, IMO you continue to try to manage it or you actively try to change it. The former maybe maintains your existence but is highly unlikely to enhance it. So how do you change it ? Well, on the assumption that the disparate elements of Brabco may actually want out, but at a price, and the vast bulk of those connected with DFC want them out then the situation can begin to look like a win/win. The trick then becomes how you engineer it, and I'm actively working on that...... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifeSons Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: Whether Brabco are now acting like a loose collection of vultures is a moot point but one thing is for sure, in terms of fundraising you only get one hit at a public appeal, and we've already done that. I had an idea a while ago about the facility to make a recurring donation to the club, perhaps through the Sons trust. Admittedly, times are tough for everyone just now and not many people may be able to or even want to, but if the option was there it would be interesting to at least see the response. Something like the cost a Netflix sub per month can seem a lot more appealing to pay than a three figure amount upfront that a lot donated during the appeal. Edited November 23, 2020 by FifeSons 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifeSons Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: In terms of the current situation, IMO you continue to try to manage it or you actively try to change it. The former maybe maintains your existence but is highly unlikely to enhance it. So how do you change it ? Well, on the assumption that the disparate elements of Brabco may actually want out, but at a price, and the vast bulk of those connected with DFC want them out then the situation can begin to look like a win/win. The trick then becomes how you engineer it, and I'm actively working on that...... I’d heard a figure quoted that Brabco were looking for a few years ago. It was eye-watering and completely unrealistic to say the least, if true. You’ve got to wonder whether they might be more amenable to selling for the liquidity in the current climate though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonsanorak Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 The figure I heard, was essentially the value of the site if they were to sell it to housing developers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 The problem with Brabco has always bee their valuation of the club. Chris Stainton has a price that he'd accept to walk away. That price is different to Ian Wilson's price. His price is different to the other investors. In all cases the amount is far in excess of a reasonable value for Dumbarton as a business. It limits what the fans can do in terms of partnering with a financer to fund a fans takeover similar to the Motherwell model where ownership is transferred gradually from the partner investor to the fans over a period of time. At one point Brabco wanted the kind of money for us that would buy you a Scottish premier league team. Brabco have never been a unified ownership group. They've continually been at odds with each other about how much money it would take for them to disappear into the sunset. Could Wilson sell his share in Brabco? Could the London spivs sell theirs? I'm not sure. Brabco may have requirements about how they run their ownership model and how investors can dispose of their shareholding. We may well end up in a position where some Brabco investors sell up whilst some remain. The important thing would be to tip the balance of shares away from the core Brabcp investors to essentially marginalise the likes of Stainton. I actually have a grudging admiration for Chris Stainton. Any dealings I had with him always seemed to be frank and open. He's never hidden what he wants. He's never engaged in the nonsense that Ian Wilson was guilty of. I think that the valuations and return on investment that he was previously looking for are barking mad, but at least he was up from from the outset. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifeSons Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Why did they buy the club in the first place - purely to sell the land? Wasn’t there also rumours that Rankine has some kind of guarantee over the land? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, FifeSons said: Why did they buy the club in the first place - purely to sell the land? Wasn’t there also rumours that Rankine has some kind of guarantee over the land? Solely to make money on the land, yes. Brabco owed/still owe Rankine money from the sale of the club, which I think is why he's ended up with a guarantee over the corner of the car park (which is earmarked for flats apparently). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifeSons Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Solely to make money on the land, yes. I wonder if that was obvious at the time? Presumably not, otherwise the club should never have been sold to them. Or perhaps Rankine just wanted out and didn’t care what happened to the club? But from what I’ve heard it does sound like Rankine still cares about the club. Edited November 23, 2020 by FifeSons 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 The problem with Brabco has always bee their valuation of the club. Chris Stainton has a price that he'd accept to walk away. That price is different to Ian Wilson's price. His price is different to the other investors. In all cases the amount is far in excess of a reasonable value for Dumbarton as a business. It limits what the fans can do in terms of partnering with a financer to fund a fans takeover similar to the Motherwell model where ownership is transferred gradually from the partner investor to the fans over a period of time. At one point Brabco wanted the kind of money for us that would buy you a Scottish premier league team. Brabco have never been a unified ownership group. They've continually been at odds with each other about how much money it would take for them to disappear into the sunset. Could Wilson sell his share in Brabco? Could the London spivs sell theirs? I'm not sure. Brabco may have requirements about how they run their ownership model and how investors can dispose of their shareholding. We may well end up in a position where some Brabco investors sell up whilst some remain. The important thing would be to tip the balance of shares away from the core Brabcp investors to essentially marginalise the likes of Stainton. I actually have a grudging admiration for Chris Stainton. Any dealings I had with him always seemed to be frank and open. He's never hidden what he wants. He's never engaged in the nonsense that Ian Wilson was guilty of. I think that the valuations and return on investment that he was previously looking for are barking mad, but at least he was up from from the outset. I believe Chris Stainton's main business interest went under circa 18 months back, in which case you might think he'd welcome extricating himself from the failed DFC endeavour. Conversely, he could still be expecting an unrealistic sum.And that's really the point. The club seems to be operating in an ownership and communications vacuum right now, the impact of which is not beneficial. I don't know for certain if the DFC Board has tried to get Brabco engaged in a grown-up conversation about their intentions, although I suspect they have. The supporters can assist in the process of financially supporting the club in the immediate short-term but they are also entitled to an assurance that every effort is being made to make that conversation happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, FifeSons said: I wonder if that was obvious at the time? Presumably not, otherwise the club should never have been sold to them. Or perhaps Rankine just wanted out and didn’t care what happened to the club? I think it was obvious to everyone except Alan Jardine at the time. I always remember Jardine telling us the Brabco deal was the best deal available and with the Hosie family involved it would ensure no harm comes to the club. He even warned us of "charlatan" property developers who flew in on a helicopter from Ireland and landed on the pitch. What a laugh it's been. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: I believe Chris Stainton's main business interest went under circa 18 months back, in which case you might think he'd welcome extricating himself from the failed DFC endeavour. Conversely, he could still be expecting an unrealistic sum. And that's really the point. The club seems to be operating in an ownership and communications vacuum right now, the impact of which is not beneficial. I don't know for certain if the DFC Board has tried to get Brabco engaged in a grown-up conversation about their intentions, although I suspect they have. The supporters can assist in the process of financially supporting the club in the immediate short-term but they are also entitled to an assurance that every effort is being made to make that conversation happen. He had a problem with HM Revenue and Customs. I believe his tax trouble was over around £3million. If I remember correctly he had indicated that this had been resolved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 57 minutes ago, FifeSons said: Why did they buy the club in the first place - purely to sell the land? Wasn’t there also rumours that Rankine has some kind of guarantee over the land? They were sold investment as a land deal with the small complication of a football club being attached. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 minute ago, BallochSonsFan said: He had a problem with HM Revenue and Customs. I believe his tax trouble was over around £3million. If I remember correctly he had indicated that this had been resolved. It was, he settled out of court - https://www.dumbartonreporter.co.uk/news/15188738.key-dumbarton-fc-investor-avoids-bankruptcy-court-date-after-paying-out-of-court-settlement-to-hmrc/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallochSonsFan Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 16 minutes ago, FifeSons said: I wonder if that was obvious at the time? Presumably not, otherwise the club should never have been sold to them. Or perhaps Rankine just wanted out and didn’t care what happened to the club? But from what I’ve heard it does sound like Rankine still cares about the club. Rankine is an out and out rogue, but one who wouldn't want to see the club come to any harm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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