Sons' sorrow

[Skyline Drifter]

12 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Lots of fans angry at how badly Anthony Ralston was exposed last night. We've got what was a fantastic young prospect kicking his heels in Liverpool's youth set up and completely unable to make the next step in his career. Calvin Ramsey should serve as a warning to guys like Lennon Miller and David Watson that some moves may well set them up financially, but do nothing to help their footballing career. Ben Doak is another who needs first team football and you;ve got Rory Wilson and a young centre half (Smith?) at Villa who are good prospects, but who will need to develop and regular football has to be part of that. Its why B teams are not the answer up here. There's no progression with B team football. Our kids need to be trusted to play regularly. If that means a loan at Dumbarton (or any other club) is their first exposure to first team competitive football and gives them something to build on then long term we all benefit.

Calvin Ramsay was out injured for a while then had loan spells at a good level with Preston North End and Bolton Wanderers during which he barely kicked a ball either. The notion he's 'kicking his heels' in Liverpool's youth set up is nonsense. Doak's been making fine progress through the levels at Liverpool and would have undoubtedly had significant first team exposure in the last 6 months if he'd not blown his knee up and been injured for the last 6 months. Another dreadful example.

It's early yet for the likes of Wilson and apparently Smith (confess I've never heard of him) to be condemned as lost in the youth set up. If boys are good enough, and luck y enough to remain relatively injury free they'll make it down South too.

[pleslie99]

6 hours ago, squeezebox-son said:

I heard from someone who attended that the Fanzone wasn't very well managed and ended up a bit of a nightmare. Not enough seating and then huge queues at the bar (which is often the case at matches too).

I hope they haven't just tried to be greedy and oversold to make some extra money, but it certainly sounds like that may have been the case. 

I heard from a number of people that attended that it was really good and credit to the guys that organised it. 
I was in Germany at the fan zone and I couldn’t even get In never mind a seat so ended up in a pub with huge queues, I wouldn’t suggest it was poorly organised tho! 
if I was to turn up at a ‘fan zone’ for a game I wouldn’t expect it to be a comfy seat and no queues at the bar, a lot of people adds to the atmosphere which I assume was excellent.
everyone’s entitled to their opinion but I’d suggest credit is given to those making the effort to organise and bring in some money for the club.

[Sweet Pete]

3 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Calvin Ramsay was out injured for a while then had loan spells at a good level with Preston North End and Bolton Wanderers during which he barely kicked a ball either. The notion he's 'kicking his heels' in Liverpool's youth set up is nonsense. Doak's been making fine progress through the levels at Liverpool and would have undoubtedly had significant first team exposure in the last 6 months if he'd not blown his knee up and been injured for the last 6 months. Another dreadful example.

It's early yet for the likes of Wilson and apparently Smith (confess I've never heard of him) to be condemned as lost in the youth set up. If boys are good enough, and luck y enough to remain relatively injury free they'll make it down South too.

Don't make the mistake of replying to BSF, he's a halfwit Rangers fan. We all stopped reading and responding to his posts ages ago. One of those "empty vessels making noise" types.

[microdave]

9 hours ago, squeezebox-son said:

I heard from someone who attended that the Fanzone wasn't very well managed and ended up a bit of a nightmare. Not enough seating and then huge queues at the bar (which is often the case at matches too).

I hope they haven't just tried to be greedy and oversold to make some extra money, but it certainly sounds like that may have been the case. 

It won't have been longer than the queues in the Munich fan zone. We waited for two and a half hours to get some beer before we gave up. The atmosphere was superb and the locals were unbelievably welcoming but the bars/queuing system were woefully inadequate. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

8 hours ago, microdave said:

It won't have been longer than the queues in the Munich fan zone. We waited for two and a half hours to get some beer before we gave up. The atmosphere was superb and the locals were unbelievably welcoming but the bars/queuing system were woefully inadequate. 

It's not as if anybody needed a drink.....

[George Parr]

14 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

Why would you feel sorry for anyone who is there? They knew what they’d be letting themselves in for. Unless they just completely ignore history

Fucking hell. Because we’re human, we’re Dumbarton fans and we’re intimately familiar with that incredibly deflating feeling of taking a skelping miles away from home - even if your expectations weren’t necessarily high in the first place. 

I had plenty of sympathy for the poor fools who were in the stadium, enduring that on Friday.

 

Edited Sunday at 08:18 by George Parr

[Nowhereman]

2 minutes ago, George Parr said:

Fucking hell. Because we’re human, we’re Dumbarton fans and we’re intimately familiar with that incredibly deflating feeling of taking a skelping miles away from home - even if your expectations weren’t necessarily high in the first place. 

I had plenty of sympathy for the poor fools who were in the stadium, enduring that on Friday.

 

Yeah I know. The difference with Dumbarton is that we occasionally do have something to smile about whereas with Scotland it’s endless disappointment. Thinking we are going to do it this time just seems to be mindless optimism. Still I’ll be expecting six points from the next two games

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

13 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Calvin Ramsay was out injured for a while then had loan spells at a good level with Preston North End and Bolton Wanderers during which he barely kicked a ball either. The notion he's 'kicking his heels' in Liverpool's youth set up is nonsense. Doak's been making fine progress through the levels at Liverpool and would have undoubtedly had significant first team exposure in the last 6 months if he'd not blown his knee up and been injured for the last 6 months. Another dreadful example.

It's early yet for the likes of Wilson and apparently Smith (confess I've never heard of him) to be condemned as lost in the youth set up. If boys are good enough, and luck y enough to remain relatively injury free they'll make it down South too.

Ramsay has also already joined Wigan in League 1 for the upcoming season so he certainly wont be rotting in the Liverpool reserves this year either. 

[microdave]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

It's not as if anybody needed a drink.....

The silver lining was that there was no beer flying through the air as the goals were going in. 

[BallochSonsFan]

14 hours ago, Sweet Pete said:

Don't make the mistake of replying to BSF, he's a halfwit Rangers fan. We all stopped reading and responding to his posts ages ago. One of those "empty vessels making noise" types.

 

I mean the years running Dumbarton's man of the match on matchday, the 50/50 matchday draw and time spent on the Sons Trust board would kind of suggest otherwise. And you're a displaced Killie fan.

[Skyline Drifter]

On 15/06/2024 at 07:21, BallochSonsFan said:

Its a discussion for the Tartan Army Ramblings forum, but the lack of youth development absolutely impacts on the club game too. I have no idea how Lennon and Newbury will progress in the next few years. I wouldn't be surprised if both become regulars in the top flight or if either makes a move down south. But they need to be playing. We need to start trusting our better kids to play and to expose them to first team football and increasingly higher levels. We've benefited in our promotion season from getting 2 good prospects on loan and hopefully they both benefited from playing first team football. I'd like to see that happen far more often. Lots of fans angry at how badly Anthony Ralston was exposed last night. We've got what was a fantastic young prospect kicking his heels in Liverpool's youth set up and completely unable to make the next step in his career. Calvin Ramsey should serve as a warning to guys like Lennon Miller and David Watson that some moves may well set them up financially, but do nothing to help their footballing career. Ben Doak is another who needs first team football and you;ve got Rory Wilson and a young centre half (Smith?) at Villa who are good prospects, but who will need to develop and regular football has to be part of that. Its why B teams are not the answer up here. There's no progression with B team football. Our kids need to be trusted to play regularly. If that means a loan at Dumbarton (or any other club) is their first exposure to first team competitive football and gives them something to build on then long term we all benefit.

 

14 hours ago, Sweet Pete said:

Don't make the mistake of replying to BSF, he's a halfwit Rangers fan. We all stopped reading and responding to his posts ages ago. One of those "empty vessels making noise" types.

 

39 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

 

I mean the years running Dumbarton's man of the match on matchday, the 50/50 matchday draw and time spent on the Sons Trust board would kind of suggest otherwise. And you're a displaced Killie fan.

Personally I couldn't give a monkey's who either of you support, I'll leave you to your spat, but using Calvin Ramsay (now three loans with senior clubs down South) who seems to have completely lost his way after injury and Ben Doak (making great progress at one of the top clubs in Europe and out injured for the last 6 months, and STILL picked for the Euros as bizarre as that was) as warnings for young players heading south is crazy stuff. Rory Wilson has recently been offered a new 3 year contract at Villa too (not sure he's actually signed it) and appears on the brink of a first team breakthrough or, more likely, a loan to an EFL club.  Incidentally I've now looked into Kerr Smith who seems to be doing ok too and was on loan to St Johnstone second half of the season just finished. Only played 3 times, not sure if he wasn't at the level for a relegation battle at 19 or got injured or what. He clearly isn't 'lost' though, he was with a Premier League first team squad last season.

The big English clubs aren't in the habit of wasting their money by bringing players in and not doing their best to develop them. They'll generally bring them in, coach them for a while, assess their levels and then make a decision to develop in house to begin with, fast track to first team or send them somewhere on loan to move forward (see Elliot Anderson's highly successful spell at Bristol Rovers for instance though appreciate he's not Scots by birth and didn't move South first). Ramsay and Smith are clearly other examples of this. Aidan Fitzpatrick went down to Norwich, didn't develop as well as they wanted and got sent back to ourselves on loan. Whilst he's not made the heights hoped for him yet, he's still carved out a top half Championship career for himself back at Thistle.

Kids getting lost to the game after showing teenage promise isn't new and isn't specific to Scots moving South. It just as easily happens at home too. They don't develop any further after reaching a level, or they don't have the discipline for the full time professional game, or they find other distractions once girls, drink and cars come along, etc. There will always be a percentage of natural wastage. I don't think it's particularly reasonable to suggest it's somehow worse by heading South at a young age. Some players will cope and thrive away from their families, some won't. That's part of the learning curve and they, and their families / agents, need to be switched on enough to know which would be better for their player.

[FifeSons]

Sons over Scotland all day. I’d rather see Sons win a dead rubber end of season game than Scotland win the Euros.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

9 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

Sons over Scotland all day. I’d rather see Sons win a dead rubber end of season game than Scotland win the Euros.

I’m fully club over country but a deid rubber club glorified friendly win over winning the euros or even winning a meaningful game at the Euros/getting out the group!? Come on man!

[FifeSons]

30 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

I’m fully club over country but a deid rubber club glorified friendly win over winning the euros or even winning a meaningful game at the Euros/getting out the group!? Come on man!

Haha I was being facetious, I obviously wouldn’t prefer that! Definitely much more club than country, though, and very down on Scotland after Friday night. My expectations from Scotland are very, very low for the rest of this tournament.

Edited Sunday at 14:07 by FifeSons

[Sweet Pete]

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

 

I mean the years running Dumbarton's man of the match on matchday, the 50/50 matchday draw and time spent on the Sons Trust board would kind of suggest otherwise. And you're a displaced Killie fan.

I am (also) a Killie fan, but I'm not displaced. I'm from Clydebank! Unless moving to Jamestown counts as displacement, in which case: guilty as charged.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

12 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

Haha I was being facetious, I obviously wouldn’t prefer that! Definitely much more club than country, though, and very down on Scotland after Friday night. My expectations from Scotland are very, very low for the rest of this tournament.

I thought London had turned you full Tory for a minute.

[FifeSons]

Just now, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

I thought London had turned you full Tory for a minute.

Big game for the Three Lions tonight!

Spoiler

Hope they get absolutely pumped.

 

[Sweet Pete]

7 minutes ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:

I thought London had turned you full Tory for a minute.

I heard he's started watching Fulham and is voting for Reform.

[FifeSons]

4 minutes ago, Sweet Pete said:

I heard he's started watching Fulham and is voting for Reform.

Well I already watch Chelsea, so Fulham would probably be a step up! Maybe watching Dulwich Hamlet too undoes some of the damage.

[Sweet Pete]

12 minutes ago, FifeSons said:

Well I already watch Chelsea, so Fulham would probably be a step up! Maybe watching Dulwich Hamlet too undoes some of the damage.

A headhunter and a hipster. Schizophrenic you