Sons' sorrow

[19QOS19]

34 minutes ago, pleslie99 said:

We have treated the LC as glorified friendlies for years. Faz even admitted it. The worst thing for us is we can’t play trialists, otherwise I’m sure there would be a few getting game time. 

That's the reality for our sides in these games. But I have to admit I'd be pretty pissed off if Murphy left out so many first teamers. Surely he should be trying to figure out his best starting 11/system in these games if nothing else? 

[The Moonster]

9 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

That's the reality for our sides in these games. But I have to admit I'd be pretty pissed off if Murphy left out so many first teamers. Surely he should be trying to figure out his best starting 11/system in these games if nothing else? 

Our side is fairly settled, there are a few new bodies to bleed in but largely our side knows each other pretty well and bar maybe 1 or 2 positions the first 11 is settled. I'd rather we played to get through but we don't really need a bedding in period this season so understand why it's treated as friendlies.

Edited July 16 by The Moonster

[TamCarson]

Moving off topic from the game last night. I'm going to discuss the " academy" I was in the room when Gordon Scanlan discussed the project at the meet the manager session. 

One of the new age groups has been settled without meeting with probably the best team at that age group in the area being asked about their thoughts. 

This has been done purely from a tick box aspect to try and secure funding for the new astro.... Not about getting the best players together at that age group. 

 

[The Moonster]

24 minutes ago, TamCarson said:

One of the new age groups has been settled without meeting with probably the best team at that age group in the area being asked about their thoughts. 

I've no idea what this means or what it would entail? The academy is basically just Dumbarton United, is it not? IIRC, they were struggling to keep boys at 18 years old because they were buggering off and playing for better teams, by giving them the Dumbarton name and moving into a development league the idea was that they could keep boys at that age group and give them the idea of a pathway to senior football. I think we all know the reality is none of them will make it but we can't really do much more with funding available to us. 

What team should we have spoken to?

[BallochSonsFan]

13 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I've no idea what this means or what it would entail? The academy is basically just Dumbarton United, is it not? IIRC, they were struggling to keep boys at 18 years old because they were buggering off and playing for better teams, by giving them the Dumbarton name and moving into a development league the idea was that they could keep boys at that age group and give them the idea of a pathway to senior football. I think we all know the reality is none of them will make it but we can't really do much more with funding available to us. 

What team should we have spoken to?

 

The academy isn't just Dumbarton United. The idea seems to be that the academy would have the pick of the best players from Dumbarton United, Renton and Haldane. I have heard concerns from a coach with one of the youth teams that the implementation of the youth set-up could be going a bit wrong. Rather than picking the best players and letting the others continue their development with their existing teams, there was a suggestion from the club's youth side that those teams shouldn't be running competing sides.

Really need some of the coaches with concerns to contact the club, or even to put their concerns to the trust and ask us to raise it through the trust director. If there's a concern about how the academy is being set up in practice then we really need as much info as possible so that we can try to avoid getting it wrong from the outset.

[Frank Quitely]

2 hours ago, TamCarson said:

This has been done purely from a tick box aspect to try and secure funding for the new astro.... Not about getting the best players together at that age group. 

 

That paragraph worries me.  Who is in overall charge of the astro project ?

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

 

The academy isn't just Dumbarton United. The idea seems to be that the academy would have the pick of the best players from Dumbarton United, Renton and Haldane. I have heard concerns from a coach with one of the youth teams that the implementation of the youth set-up could be going a bit wrong. Rather than picking the best players and letting the others continue their development with their existing teams, there was a suggestion from the club's youth side that those teams shouldn't be running competing sides.

Really need some of the coaches with concerns to contact the club, or even to put their concerns to the trust and ask us to raise it through the trust director. If there's a concern about how the academy is being set up in practice then we really need as much info as possible so that we can try to avoid getting it wrong from the outset.

 

Never ceases to amaze me the politics involved in football for 12 year old kids. Only DFC could take a policy that is designed to bring our community football sides together and make it another reason for locals to hate DFC. 

[Jan Vojáček]

Last night was what it was. I thought we were pretty decent up until the second goal, at which point it was game over and we basically played out the last 30 minutes or so knowing that. 

Losing the early goal (a quick counter attack) was a set back. But we responded pretty well. We had a lot of the ball, but it was all a bit overplayed at times. One chance in particular we worked the ball right into the box, but instead of shooting Jinky tried to tee up Carlo from six yards out. And Queens had about 6 blue shirts back to block his shot. Tony Wallace also missed a sitter from about six yards after Queens made an arse of dealing with an Aron Lynas long throw.

A lot of the play focused on getting into good positions wide too. But we'd then cross it to a penalty box with no strikers and a fairly sizeable Queens backline who just mopped it up. So it certainly highlighted just how badly we need a backup for Ruth.

At 1-0 it looked like we had a stick-on penalty denied when Cammy Clark was clattered in the box. One of those where, in the moment, it felt like a stonewaller and all eyes went to the ref. But he waved it away. Clark had already been booked too, so if it wasn't a penalty then it must've been a dive - because it looked like the ball didn't change direction at all. 

Interestingly though Faz said he was more irate we didn't just hit it from the position. So I guess that was us being guilty of overplaying again.

A few minutes later Queens finally took advantage of our kamikaze passes playing out from the back (we genuinely looked like their biggest creator at times, on two or three occasions we gifted them the ball right on the edge of the box). Tony Wallace underweighted a pass, Kieran McKechnie nicked in, buzzed towards goal and drilled it through Paddy. Who maybe could've done a bit better, but it was at the opposite end to me.

They had a few more chances to add to it after that. One in particular where we made a complete mess of dealing with a long ball and Mikey Miller produced a tremendous goal line clearance. But by full-time you couldn't really argue with the scoreline a great deal.

In terms of performances, I don't think it told us a lot we didn't already know. We lacked pace without Shiels, Ruth and Orsi starting, and it felt like we'd have a bit of joy with them against that QoS defence because they got in behind a few times.

I think the opposition fan comments on Cammy Clark and Craig McGuffie are spot on. Clark looks like a centre-back being asked to cover at left-back. And whilst he's decent enough going forward, the way we play with high full backs didn't suit him for getting back into position.

McGuffie looked a threat in the first-half. But he clearly wants to be a #10. His touch, dribbling and positivity are excellent. But he doesn't have that we explosive burst of pace to be a winger who buzzes by his man. I hope we get a chance to see him more centrally at some stage.

Positively though, I'm continuing to be very taken by Mikey Miller. I worried a season in the Lowland League might've taken it out of him, but it doesn't look to be the case at all. He reads play so well, he's excellent on the ball, he's a terrific tackler and he was organising throughout the game.  Easy to forget he's only 29 too. He could prove a very decent addition.

It's difficult to see us getting anything from a flying Airdrie and then Aberdeen, but as long as we get through both games without injury and put in a couple of respectable showings I'll be happy.

[southernboy]

An excellent summary of last night Jan and I agree with pretty well all you’ve written.

i would like to make the point though that I felt for an hour we matched Queens in pretty well every respect other than the goal. However, when we lost the second goal, the game changed radically and for the final half hour, we were pretty well swamped. Queens could and should have scored more.
my point though is that for that last half hour we had our”stronger” players on the field - Kalvin Orsi, Greg Young, Marty Shiels and Mouhamad Niang. 
there could be various reasons for our collapse at the end- lack of motivation, full-time training for Queens, change of tactics by them, However the fact remains that with what on the face of it looked a stronger side,we didn’t lay a glove on them.

Best for us, were Aaron, Lynas, Paddy O’Neil, the two CBs and Finlay Gray.

I really feel we haven’t strengthened very much in the close season and are crying out for a couple of high quality loan signings.. otherwise I think it may well be a longish haul.

[Urban Spaceman]

2 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:

 

The academy isn't just Dumbarton United.

For this years intake, its not Dumbarton United at all!  other than the new Womens Team. So that link up seems permanently broken now 

Both the U17s (2008s) and the U16s (2009) are a straight take over of Haldane Utd teams (players and coaches). Gordon / The club made the suggestion that DU and Haldane come together / merge to form the new DFC academy age groups. Obviously the best solution for DFC as in theory they get the best players from both. 

But in real practical terms (someone called it politics) that meant 2 teams becoming 1. Boys lost to football with nowhere to play. when previously it was 2 successfully run teams (both Haldane and DU at won their respective leagues at U16s) 

The main issue is that DFC are not providing coaches, so it relies on the volunteer coaches of the teams taken over, which brings all the baggage and politics into play. BUT that doesnt sound like its the coachers or parents. Its the boys themselves that all have a history with both teams and are doing what is best for themselves, rightly so.

 

[Urban Spaceman]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

Never ceases to amaze me the politics involved in football for 12 year old kids. Only DFC could take a policy that is designed to bring our community football sides together and make it another reason for locals to hate DFC. 

to be fair its 15 and 16 years old, nobody can anyone that age do anything they dont want to do!

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, Jan Vojáček said:

Last night was what it was. I thought we were pretty decent up until the second goal, at which point it was game over and we basically played out the last 30 minutes or so knowing that. 

Losing the early goal (a quick counter attack) was a set back. But we responded pretty well. We had a lot of the ball, but it was all a bit overplayed at times. One chance in particular we worked the ball right into the box, but instead of shooting Jinky tried to tee up Carlo from six yards out. And Queens had about 6 blue shirts back to block his shot. Tony Wallace also missed a sitter from about six yards after Queens made an arse of dealing with an Aron Lynas long throw.

A lot of the play focused on getting into good positions wide too. But we'd then cross it to a penalty box with no strikers and a fairly sizeable Queens backline who just mopped it up. So it certainly highlighted just how badly we need a backup for Ruth.

At 1-0 it looked like we had a stick-on penalty denied when Cammy Clark was clattered in the box. One of those where, in the moment, it felt like a stonewaller and all eyes went to the ref. But he waved it away. Clark had already been booked too, so if it wasn't a penalty then it must've been a dive - because it looked like the ball didn't change direction at all. 

Interestingly though Faz said he was more irate we didn't just hit it from the position. So I guess that was us being guilty of overplaying again.

A few minutes later Queens finally took advantage of our kamikaze passes playing out from the back (we genuinely looked like their biggest creator at times, on two or three occasions we gifted them the ball right on the edge of the box). Tony Wallace underweighted a pass, Kieran McKechnie nicked in, buzzed towards goal and drilled it through Paddy. Who maybe could've done a bit better, but it was at the opposite end to me.

They had a few more chances to add to it after that. One in particular where we made a complete mess of dealing with a long ball and Mikey Miller produced a tremendous goal line clearance. But by full-time you couldn't really argue with the scoreline a great deal.

In terms of performances, I don't think it told us a lot we didn't already know. We lacked pace without Shiels, Ruth and Orsi starting, and it felt like we'd have a bit of joy with them against that QoS defence because they got in behind a few times.

I think the opposition fan comments on Cammy Clark and Craig McGuffie are spot on. Clark looks like a centre-back being asked to cover at left-back. And whilst he's decent enough going forward, the way we play with high full backs didn't suit him for getting back into position.

McGuffie looked a threat in the first-half. But he clearly wants to be a #10. His touch, dribbling and positivity are excellent. But he doesn't have that we explosive burst of pace to be a winger who buzzes by his man. I hope we get a chance to see him more centrally at some stage.

Positively though, I'm continuing to be very taken by Mikey Miller. I worried a season in the Lowland League might've taken it out of him, but it doesn't look to be the case at all. He reads play so well, he's excellent on the ball, he's a terrific tackler and he was organising throughout the game.  Easy to forget he's only 29 too. He could prove a very decent addition.

It's difficult to see us getting anything from a flying Airdrie and then Aberdeen, but as long as we get through both games without injury and put in a couple of respectable showings I'll be happy.

Wouldn't disagree with much there. I didn't see the first 20 mins or so apart from the goal ironically as I popped into the tunnel for a minute just when we scored it. From when I did start watching it and for the 10 - 15 mins after I thought Dumbarton had the better of it, certainly in chances. I think that Tony Wallace shot hooked wide from the long throw we didn't deal with was about where I came in. He should have scored. For the last 10 minutes of the 1st half though and all of the 2nd we were pretty comfortable but wasteful in the final third. Plenty of good opportunities, including a couple of borderline open goals, where we just didn't pick the right final pass or shot.

No idea about the penalty shout. I had no angle to judge though we did look a bit guilty. Clark 100% was looking for it though and chucked himself as soon as he saw the chance.

Disappointed in some ways Ruth didn't play. Was looking forward to seeing how he's improved but we'll see him on league business soon enough. I barely noticed McGuffie and I was a fan. He's never a winger. Needs to play inside. He's a 10.

Some suicidal defending at times from both sides, but more so from Dumbarton who on at least two occasions played us through on goal (both wasted). Durnan was perhaps slightly fortunate not to get two bookings in that first half.

In the end scoreline was fair enough though we could have added to it. In particular McKechnie's chip just after he'd added the 2nd would have been a lovely goal and might have opened the floodgates. As it was it remained competitive at least to the end without ever feeling like we were in any danger once the 2nd went in. Home wins have been rare enough at Palmerston in the last 3 years that I'll enjoy any one that comes. On to EK...........

[O'Kelly Isley III]

2 hours ago, Jan Vojáček said:

Last night was what it was. I thought we were pretty decent up until the second goal, at which point it was game over and we basically played out the last 30 minutes or so knowing that. 

Losing the early goal (a quick counter attack) was a set back. But we responded pretty well. We had a lot of the ball, but it was all a bit overplayed at times. One chance in particular we worked the ball right into the box, but instead of shooting Jinky tried to tee up Carlo from six yards out. And Queens had about 6 blue shirts back to block his shot. Tony Wallace also missed a sitter from about six yards after Queens made an arse of dealing with an Aron Lynas long throw.

A lot of the play focused on getting into good positions wide too. But we'd then cross it to a penalty box with no strikers and a fairly sizeable Queens backline who just mopped it up. So it certainly highlighted just how badly we need a backup for Ruth.

At 1-0 it looked like we had a stick-on penalty denied when Cammy Clark was clattered in the box. One of those where, in the moment, it felt like a stonewaller and all eyes went to the ref. But he waved it away. Clark had already been booked too, so if it wasn't a penalty then it must've been a dive - because it looked like the ball didn't change direction at all. 

Interestingly though Faz said he was more irate we didn't just hit it from the position. So I guess that was us being guilty of overplaying again.

A few minutes later Queens finally took advantage of our kamikaze passes playing out from the back (we genuinely looked like their biggest creator at times, on two or three occasions we gifted them the ball right on the edge of the box). Tony Wallace underweighted a pass, Kieran McKechnie nicked in, buzzed towards goal and drilled it through Paddy. Who maybe could've done a bit better, but it was at the opposite end to me.

They had a few more chances to add to it after that. One in particular where we made a complete mess of dealing with a long ball and Mikey Miller produced a tremendous goal line clearance. But by full-time you couldn't really argue with the scoreline a great deal.

In terms of performances, I don't think it told us a lot we didn't already know. We lacked pace without Shiels, Ruth and Orsi starting, and it felt like we'd have a bit of joy with them against that QoS defence because they got in behind a few times.

I think the opposition fan comments on Cammy Clark and Craig McGuffie are spot on. Clark looks like a centre-back being asked to cover at left-back. And whilst he's decent enough going forward, the way we play with high full backs didn't suit him for getting back into position.

McGuffie looked a threat in the first-half. But he clearly wants to be a #10. His touch, dribbling and positivity are excellent. But he doesn't have that we explosive burst of pace to be a winger who buzzes by his man. I hope we get a chance to see him more centrally at some stage.

Positively though, I'm continuing to be very taken by Mikey Miller. I worried a season in the Lowland League might've taken it out of him, but it doesn't look to be the case at all. He reads play so well, he's excellent on the ball, he's a terrific tackler and he was organising throughout the game.  Easy to forget he's only 29 too. He could prove a very decent addition.

It's difficult to see us getting anything from a flying Airdrie and then Aberdeen, but as long as we get through both games without injury and put in a couple of respectable showings I'll be happy.

When your best performers are the more physical players then that's fine a far as it goes, but it won't be far enough in League One.  OK, the League Cup is nowadays glorified friendlies but I was alarmed on Saturday when East Kilbride - utterly horsed last night by Airdrie - played most of the football.  We desperately need a footballing presence in midfield and badly need another striker on the books.  And we maybe need to think more carefully before agreeing two-year deals.

[cameron2000]

3 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

When your best performers are the more physical players then that's fine a far as it goes, but it won't be far enough in League One.  OK, the League Cup is nowadays glorified friendlies but I was alarmed on Saturday when East Kilbride - utterly horsed last night by Airdrie - played most of the football.  We desperately need a footballing presence in midfield and badly need another striker on the books.  And we maybe need to think more carefully before agreeing two-year deals.

East Kilbride would probably have most of the ball against the majority of league 1/2 teams regardless of the score.

[Jan Vojáček]

9 minutes ago, cameron2000 said:

East Kilbride would probably have most of the ball against the majority of league 1/2 teams regardless of the score.

Further to that point, I see their possession last night was 50/50. 

[TamCarson]

The club were meant to go out and engage with the local boys club... They should have discussed this with all the teams playing at the highest level in their age group. 

They didn't. Maybe with the elections Gordon was a bit busy. 

 

[Diamonds02]

Getting the train in for Saturday’s game. Usually drive up so not sure on the best places to go beforehand.

Pub suggestions?

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, Diamonds02 said:

Getting the train in for Saturday’s game. Usually drive up so not sure on the best places to go beforehand.

Pub suggestions?

There's f**k all near the ground now aside from the Rock Bowling club the other side of the Castle. Other than that you're looking at the High Street. 

[pleslie99]

6 hours ago, TamCarson said:

Moving off topic from the game last night. I'm going to discuss the " academy" I was in the room when Gordon Scanlan discussed the project at the meet the manager session. 

One of the new age groups has been settled without meeting with probably the best team at that age group in the area being asked about their thoughts. 

This has been done purely from a tick box aspect to try and secure funding for the new astro.... Not about getting the best players together at that age group. 

 

Iv had my say on the ‘academy’ in the past. As you mentioned, it’s there to secure funding for the Astro. It’s not going to provide the next generation of super stars coming through. 
I’m not sure the lure of playing under the Dumbarton name at u-15 level has any more appeal than playing for Haldane, DU, riverside or whoever. 
I don’t think that  ‘not engaging with the best team in the area’ really matters. It’s purely about getting boys to play under the umbrella. It’s similar with the girls team, anyone with any iota of knowledge about the womans game will know how far away DU were/are from being competitive at the higher levels in the game. Playing under Dumbarton’s name is purely a fund raising exercise. 
 

that being said, if the new Astro comes to fruition. All the teams playing under the Dumbarton banner and suppose Broomhill will get use and there won’t be any space for anyone else in the community to let it out. 

[The Moonster]

2 minutes ago, pleslie99 said:

 

that being said, if the new Astro comes to fruition. All the teams playing under the Dumbarton banner and suppose Broomhill will get use and there won’t be any space for anyone else in the community to let it out. 

It frees up space at other parks in the area though if all those sides are using ours. Broomhill can f**k off and someone else can take their spot.