mike rankine Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Was talking about this last night at the game. Bring back the glory days of Reece Pearson, Keiran Brannan, Ryan Metcalfe and Liam Mushet. I remember when that team finished pretty high in the old U19s league. Perhaps that proves Mark Wotte's theory. A relatively successful group of U19 players but not one of them made the step-up to perform consistently at first team level - even when we were a few divisions below our current position. Our development squad may only produce one "elite" player every couple of years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Mark Wotte (former SFA Development Chief) was on Radio Scotland last night saying many of our country's development coaches were obsessed with winning games. He strongly argues that development squads should be about individual performance and progress, not team success. In the past, Scottish teams were relatively competitive at U16 to U21 level but failed to make the jump to full international success. Maybe we shouldn't fret too much about our U20s win rate. Let's see if any INDIVIDUALS eventually make the grade. To a certain extent I agree but when they are getting beat every single game then that can't be a good sign. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Parr Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Perhaps that proves Mark Wotte's theory. A relatively successful group of U19 players but not one of them made the step-up to perform consistently at first team level - even when we were a few divisions below our current position. Our development squad may only produce one "elite" player every couple of years. Has the development squad ever produced an elite player? Our biggest success story so far currently plies his trade with the diddiest of diddy clubs in League 1. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Mark Wotte (former SFA Development Chief) was on Radio Scotland last night saying many of our country's development coaches were obsessed with winning games. He strongly argues that development squads should be about individual performance and progress, not team success. In the past, Scottish teams were relatively competitive at U16 to U21 level but failed to make the jump to full international success. Maybe we shouldn't fret too much about our U20s win rate. Let's see if any INDIVIDUALS eventually make the grade. I would argue that if we had enough individuals in our team putting in good performances then the team would see an up turn in fortunes. Obviously we're not writing them off altogether but the fact only McCallum and Whitfield have been put forward when we can't fill a bench coupled with the fact that they lose just about every game should tell you that we're not at the required standard. I'd also argue that at U20 level, there should absolutely be a focus on winning. If we're not drumming a winning mentality into them at 18-20 then when are we? It's possible to have a focus on playing good football and a determination to win. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike rankine Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 If we're not drumming a winning mentality into them at 18-20 then when are we? Due to a family connection I've watched youth football in recent years (from age 5 up) and the 'win at all costs mentality' is alive and well in Scotland. I've personally witnessed parents / coaches screaming "take him out", aimed at a gifted 6 year old who was running rings around their boys. I also watched a local coach (with basic SFA qualifications) take a small squad of boys to an under-10, 7-aside tournament in Blackpool where he refused to give two of the boys a single minute on the pitch, so obsessed by his desire to play his strongest possible team throughout because he thought he had a chance of winning the competition. Finally, I've observed previously skilful boys resorting to punting the ball up the park or out of play, so terrified they had become of making a mistake and letting their team down. Some of these boys eventually became disillusioned and chucked the game altogether. Maybe you're correct, Moonster and Mark Wotte, with all his playing and coaching experience in the Netherlands and elsewhere, is wrong. Personally, I think 18-20 year olds should still be maturing physically and mentally, while being free to develop their skills, try things and learn from their mistakes, without the pressure to have a "winning mentality drummed into them". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Due to a family connection I've watched youth football in recent years (from age 5 up) and the 'win at all costs mentality' is alive and well in Scotland. I've personally witnessed parents / coaches screaming "take him out", aimed at a gifted 6 year old who was running rings around their boys. I also watched a local coach (with basic SFA qualifications) take a small squad of boys to an under-10, 7-aside tournament in Blackpool where he refused to give two of the boys a single minute on the pitch, so obsessed by his desire to play his strongest possible team throughout because he thought he had a chance of winning the competition. Finally, I've observed previously skilful boys resorting to punting the ball up the park or out of play, so terrified they had become of making a mistake and letting their team down. Some of these boys eventually became disillusioned and chucked the game altogether. Maybe you're correct, Moonster and Mark Wotte, with all his playing and coaching experience in the Netherlands and elsewhere, is wrong. Personally, I think 18-20 year olds should still be maturing physically and mentally, while being free to develop their skills, try things and learn from their mistakes, without the pressure to have a "winning mentality drummed into them". I'm not advocating a "win at all costs" approach. I witnessed enough of that playing myself to know that it's detrimental to players games. Back when I was playing that's all it was - win, nothing else matters, cheat if you have to and win. Now, it looks like Wotte is proposing/has proposed the complete opposite - concentrate on your own performance, winning doesn't matter, team performance doesn't matter. I think both approaches are wrong, there's surely a middle ground to be found there where we can have them determined to win but still focussed on playing good football? When these boys come to the first team, they'll be expected to win. Is Ian Murray (or whoever else), who needs a result, going to tell these boys only their performance matters? Is he buggery, he'll be telling them to get out there and get him the 3 points. How does an 18-20 year old change his mentality from "I just need to do my bit well and that's all that matters" to "I must win this game as part of this team" overnight? How many times do you hear a fan say "I don't care how we do it but we need to win here"? Of course there has to be a focus on the ability of the player but you can't neglect that football is a results business and the boys will need to be prepared for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike rankine Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I don't think we're as far apart as our initial posts suggest, Moonster. Some middle way is required. Anyway, I was simply chucking Mark Wotte's philosophy into the mix given the thread had turned to analysing the poor win rate of our development squad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike rankine Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 On a side note, but similar theme, two coaches/managers receiving praise from Wotte (and others) are Jackie MacNamara & Robbie Neilson. Apparently, neither goes in for detailed team talks nor rants, but instead they take the time to speak to each individual player about their role and performance. Former Dundee United player, Mark Wilson, said it worked wonders for the confidence of the younger players breaking into the first team squad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I don't think we're as far apart as our initial posts suggest, Moonster. Some middle way is required. Anyway, I was simply chucking Mark Wotte's philosophy into the mix given the thread had turned to analysing the poor win rate of our development squad. Don't get me wrong, I believe at young ages Wotte's approach would be good but I think as you get nearer and nearer first team levels the focus has to change in order to prepare them for what they're walking into. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Effectively Scottish youth football needs more people like me. I am the Jack Ross of Westerton United 2001s #Rolemodel In all seriousness old guys tend to be the 'Win at all costs' hoofball merchants. The best teams play good football and don't rely on a raging 'boot him' merchant. And trust me, I know plenty of people who adopt those tactics Spalding worked with Falkirk before didn't he? They have an outstanding reputation for bringing through youth teamers. Here's hoping he can find a few gems within ours, although that may also depend on our scouts finding the right players. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Who are our scouts? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Who are our scouts?Alan Mcdevitt is the chief youth scout, he seems to be stalking me! Any game that my team are playing he's there, watching. See him every match day as well, not sure if he's the only one though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Alan Mcdevitt is the chief youth scout, he seems to be stalking me! Any game that my team are playing he's there, watching. See him every match day as well, not sure if he's the only one though. Cheers, wasn't ever aware of who done the scouting for the youth teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Who are our scouts? Was going to ask the same question. Are most of our players signed after a scout recommendation or is it on the back of open trials? When I played as a youngster we had a few really good players (McNaught was one of them) which meant there were often scouts from all over the place down at our games. Safe to say I never got my big move (but loads of the boys went to St Johnstone, St Mirren, Gretna and Alloa to name a few). I was waiting for a proper team to snap me up, I was La Liga material. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Was going to ask the same question. Are most of our players signed after a scout recommendation or is it on the back of open trials? When I played as a youngster we had a few really good players (McNaught was one of them) which meant there were often scouts from all over the place down at our games. Safe to say I never got my big move (but loads of the boys went to St Johnstone, St Mirren, Gretna and Alloa to name a few). I was waiting for a proper team to snap me up, I was La Liga material. The scout sees a player he likes, approaches the coach for permission to speak to the boy and his parents about getting him down for training. He can train with a pro-youth team whilst signed to a BC but not the other way around, after a few weeks training (often shorter) they will play him as a trialist in up to 3 games. After that a formal offer has to be made and (assuming the boys club sign his release papers and transfer his registration and thr player wants to move) he will become a signed player at the pro-youth side. Your time will come BBPF, can you play semi competently up front? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Your time will come BBPF, can you play semi competently up front? I'd give it a bash and I'd certainly put in more effort than Nish, especially if a half time pint was part of the deal. I've got a rare toe poke on me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I've got a rare toe poke on me. He asked if you were a good striker, what's your bedroom fetish got to do with it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 He asked if you were a good striker, what's your bedroom fetish got to do with it? You shut yer hole or you'll be next for a pokin'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paddy Flannery Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Getting slightly worried by the lack of signing activity. Surely we'll be adding a striker before Saturday? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedrick1 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 From where BBPF.we can only sign someone out of contract or development loan. I doubt there is anyone about who is worthy of a place at our level. Agree concerns re depth of squad but suspect too late 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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