Independence - how would you vote?

[xbl]

So to cut a long story short, the lib dems also want to give Scotland a worse deal.

[Mr Bairn]

We are getting back less than we put in under this good deal. Which the lib dems, labour, and the tories want to make worse.

Oh, and why do people being "foreigners" matter? I've got German cousins and other relatives, I don't see them amy differently from my Scottish and English relatives. Also, do you stay neutral in England Scotland games?

And your point is? Naturally, we're not going to get exactly what we put in. Similarly, in an independent Scotland, some areas would put in more than their fair share of tax. More money is actually spent per head in Scotland than down South, which is the reason why our government has been able to provide us with more privileges than Westminister has been able to give the people down South.

Say we do go independent, then in 20 years time we could look at our tax revenues and see that, for example, Aberdeenshire is contributing 15% to the national tax fund but only receiving 10% of the public spending. Would you, in this case, support independence for Aberdeenshire? I think not.

I differentiate sports from politics(in sports where England and Scotland compete separately, I'm part of the A.B.E crowd) however I'd prefer my cousins and uncle down South not to be foreign. What's the problem with that?

[xbl]

Without question Better Together have slammed the credibility machine into reverse. Long gone is.... "Of course Scotland could go it alone" we're back to "Blown out the water that Scotland could survive". The lull in #projectfear lasted only a matter of weeks and they're scrambling in fear of what might be in the white paper.

....and to think Ad lib was telling us how AC is such a decent honest bloke and the opposite of Michael Moore.

Yep, we're back to spears and fire. Which we will have to pay rent for. The lib dems have ruled out Scotland having fire.

[Ad Lib]

So to cut a long story short, the lib dems also want to give Scotland a worse deal.

A properly functioning needs based formula that has the ancillary effect of marginally reducing the proportion of UK revenue that is spent on Scotland, but which addresses severe inequalities in respect of economically underdeveloped other parts of the UK is ultimately a better deal for Scotland.

[xbl]

And your point is? Naturally, we're not going to get exactly what we put in. Similarly, in an independent Scotland, some areas would put in more than their fair share of tax. More money is actually spent per head in Scotland than down South, which is the reason why our government has been able to provide us with more privileges than Westminister has been able to give the people down South.

Say we do go independent, then in 20 years time we could look at our tax revenues and see that, for example, Aberdeenshire is contributing 15% to the national tax fund but only receiving 10% of the public spending. Would you, in this case, support independence for Aberdeenshire? I think not.

I differentiate sports from politics(in sports where England and Scotland compete separately, I'm part of the A.B.E crowd) however I'd prefer my cousins and uncle down South not to be foreign. What's the problem with that?

What would change? I don't differentiate between my scottish family and my German family. What is so bad about "foreigners"? My German family aren't somehow inferior because they aren't the British, and my non Scots friends aren't any lesser for being foreign. Why is it such a big deal?

Oh, and Scotland is a nation, like Germany and Ireland, not like Aberdeen or Yorkshire. That is the difference.

[Mr Bairn]

A properly functioning needs based formula that has the ancillary effect of marginally reducing the proportion of UK revenue that is spent on Scotland, but which addresses severe inequalities in respect of economically underdeveloped other parts of the UK is ultimately a better deal for Scotland.

The biggest problem with the cybernats is that they see England as a "them and us" mutually exclusive groups of people, what they fail to understand is that they're too subsets of the same, single, collective nation.

It may benefit England, it may be worse for Scotland, but overall it's better for the whole UK, and that, ultimately, is why the UK government is doing this.

[xbl]

A properly functioning needs based formula that has the ancillary effect of marginally reducing the proportion of UK revenue that is spent on Scotland, but which addresses severe inequalities in respect of economically underdeveloped other parts of the UK is ultimately a better deal for Scotland.

So take Scottish money and spread it about a bit more? No thanks. That happens enough already.

[xbl]

The biggest problem with the cybernats is that they see England as a "them and us" mutually exclusive groups of people, what they fail to understand is that they're too subsets of the same, single, collective nation.

It may benefit England, it may be worse for Scotland, but overall it's better for the whole UK, and that, ultimately, is why the UK government is doing this.

You're the one obsessing about the big bad "foreigners".

The British government does not care about Scotland. They just want our money.

[Mr Bairn]

What would change? I don't differentiate between my scottish family and my German family. What is so bad about "foreigners"? My German family aren't somehow inferior because they aren't the British, and my non Scots friends aren't any lesser for being foreign. Why is it such a big deal?

Oh, and Scotland is a nation, like Germany and Ireland, not like Aberdeen or Yorkshire. That is the difference.

Ireland isn't a nation, Ireland is an island.

"Nation" is just a word anyway. Supporting Scottish independence is no different from supporting Aberdeenshire independence, or, for example, supporting independence for "Scotland and North England"

It's a big deal because these guys have been my compatriots my entire life, I don't want our nation to divorce from theirs

[Mr Bairn]

You're the one obsessing about the big bad "foreigners".

The British government does not care about Scotland. They just want our money.

Scotland is part of Britain, thus, the British government cares about Scotland.

Anyway, if they hate us so much, why would they let us use their currency?

[Baxter Parp]

 

Your analogy isn't great.

 

It would be better if it was a salary of £1700, who gives them £1800 back each time. Given that Scotland receives more than it contributes. As of course does the rest of the UK.

Still peddling lies, eh?

[xbl]

Ireland isn't a nation, Ireland is an island.

"Nation" is just a word anyway. Supporting Scottish independence is no different from supporting Aberdeenshire independence, or, for example, supporting independence for "Scotland and North England"

It's a big deal because these guys have been my compatriots my entire life, I don't want our nation to divorce from theirs

Nation is just a word. Apparently. Ive known my German cousins their whole life. Should we conquer Germany and make them British too?

[SodjesSixteenIncher]

This "I wasn't being literal" isn't an excuse I'm afraid. You weren't just not literal. You were just plainly wrong. It didn't illustrate the point you're now apparently claiming to make, rather it illustrated a completely different and fictitious point that presumed we were running a fiscal surplus.

189 word posts are not too long. It was a concise explanation at the absurdity of your unrepresentative analogy. You can row back as much as you want here, but your entire post was specious and misleading and you should really be ashamed of it.

What was the "completely different point I was making"? Keep it snappy.

The only thing anyone should be ashamed of is explaining the artificial nature of collecting and distributing revenue and actually thinking anyone would want to read it for fun.

[xbl]

Scotland is part of Britain, thus, the British government cares about Scotland.

Anyway, if they hate us so much, why would they let us use their currency?

Our currency.

[~~~]

Ireland isn't a nation

It is, officially it can Ireland or Eire

[SodjesSixteenIncher]

I'd prefer my cousins and uncle down South not to be foreign. What's the problem with that?

"Nation" is just a word anyway.

Spending Christmas in Republic of Ireland this xmas with my relatives. Won't be a problem because I'm not a massive arsehole.

[Baxter Parp]

A properly functioning needs based formula that has the ancillary effect of marginally reducing the proportion of UK revenue that is spent on Scotland, but which addresses severe inequalities in respect of economically underdeveloped other parts of the UK is ultimately a better deal for Scotland.

For "better" read "worse". Or cheaper.

[Ad Lib]

So take Scottish money and spread it about a bit more? No thanks. That happens enough already.

Not just Scottish money. The tax of the whole of the UK. Scotland would be one of several parts, London included, under the example I gave, to experience a net reduction in spending in order to support the growth of deprived areas like Wales and the North East of England. I think that would be ultimately a good thing, for the same reason that I think a significantly increased redistribution of wealth from London, Paris and New York to Calcutta, Johannesburg and Sao Paolo would ultimately also be a good thing for the people of London, Paris and New York.

[xbl]

And while we are funding the rest of the cdu, we could listen to them call us subsidy junkies, tell us that we should be grateful for the pocket money they hand out, and finally, smile as they cut our money still further.

f**k off.

And they can get their fucking hands off our pound too.

[Ad Lib]

What was the "completely different point I was making"? Keep it snappy.

The only thing anyone should be ashamed of is explaining the artificial nature of collecting and distributing revenue and actually thinking anyone would want to read it for fun.

By using numbers that suggest "Scotland"'s "money in" to "money out" ratio is 17:12 you were going FURTHER than simply to say we don't fully control all the money raised in Scotland (this is surely a "no shit" point too, for the record). You were suggesting that we pay in SIGNIFICANTLY more than we get back. This isn't true. It's not true by a significant margin.

People aren't here to read things for fun. They are here to be telt.