Independence - how would you vote?

[the jambo-rocker]

Seems union led.

I really dont know why they are wasting time and money on this anyway. It won't affect the no landslide regardless. It just looks a bit like Labour positioning themselves for winning power at the next Holyrood elections. Theres no doubt this SNP outfit is jaded, it has probably been in power too long already.

The only logic I can see is that they'd probably at the very least be able to stop a SNP majority anyway, but distancing themselves from the coalition is just a lateral move IMO.

[H_B]

And yet in a very real sense it doesn't really matter why South Sudan had to join the UN. They had their referendum in January and were members by July. UN membership is clearly a non-issue.

Well, this is a climbdown isn't it.

Is this still "Christmas" for xbl? It must be a nightmare when you try and white knight a horse with 3 legs.

[H_B]

I don't understand why the uk government is waiting until 2017 to have an in/out referendum on the EU

Then you should do more reading.

[xbl]

Well, this is a climbdown isn't it.

Is this still "Christmas" for xbl? It must be a nightmare when you try and white knight a horse with 3 legs.

I've enjoyed it greatly, and once again, I refer to the quote in my signature!

[H_B]

Is wikipedia OK?

Not really, no.

If you want to learn more about secession and international law, I can point you towards some much better resources.

Baxter Parp was in some ways unlucky. Had this been one of the usual "Nats together" websites, his pisspoor understanding of the legal position would have attracted admiring glances and "This guy knows his stuff" praise.

As it's here, he's been exposed as peddling a line of bullshit, which again shows the value of this website.

[the jambo-rocker]

Not really, no.

If you want to learn more about secession and international law, I can point you towards some much better resources.

Baxter Parp was in some ways unlucky. Had this been one of the usual "Nats together" websites, his pisspoor understanding of the legal position would have attracted admiring glances and "This guy knows his stuff" praise.

As it's here, he's been exposed as peddling a line of bullshit, which again shows the value of this website.

That would be great if you could. Even if it's just to get a jist of it rather become an overnight expert, and judging by my poor hunting attempts earlier, you'll probably know much better than most where the more unbiased resources are.

[Reynard]

The only logic I can see is that they'd probably at the very least be able to stop a SNP majority anyway, but distancing themselves from the coalition is just a lateral move IMO.

I think they are distancing themselves from all the other parties by doing this. Like everyone else, they know the game is up for the nats, they have aimed the twelve bore straight at their feet and blown half their leg away while they are at it. This is all to do with the next Holyrood elections and removing power from the SNP.

Nobody wants to go through another four years of watching XBL make a comple c**t of himself anyway.

Don't misunderstand me, I think Labur are a bigger shower of c***s than the SNP are. The SNP are just a shower of eager amateurs doing heir best, Labour are a real bunch of dangerous scum.

[Baxter Parp]

I hate replying to big posts on this board.

1. We're not. Increases in stamp duty and disincentives regarding tax avoidance and capital gains tax increases amount to a net increase on the taxation burden on the richest in our society.

Discincentives to avoid paying tax is not an increase in taxation. The rate stays the same, so removing the opportunity to avoid paying tax is not an increase.

2. Therefore "this country" isn't rolling in it. Good luck with your imperial venture to take assets lawfully held in other countries, champ.

Not "lawfully held", tax evasion costs the UK £42bn per year according to HMRC, and that's a conservative estimate according to some experts.

3. And how, exactly, will an independent Scotland reverse this trend, exactly? Post independence the uber-wealthy in London are still going to increase their wealth. Even if the gap between rich and poor narrows slightly in Scotland or widens less quickly, it's going to be marginal, and will have virtually no effect on the underlying trends whereby the biggest financial centres still see an increase in wealth disproportionate to the rest of society. The only difference will be that said financial sectors are not notionally counted as being in the same country as Scotland. Woopee!

Post independence we no longer have to subsidise London, which gets the biggest subsidy in the UK (next is N.I.) In fact we no longer have to worry about London at all, we can get on with creating a socially fair society in Scotland.

4. Again, we can't afford to spend this money ON defence, let alone anything else. Labour left a black hole in the defence budget OVER AND ABOVE any austerity-based cut-backs of £40billion.

That's your opinion, Keynes says spending in recession is a good idea and if we look back to the post-war period when we had even higher debt, we can see that he's quite right.

Keynes also said you should run significant surpluses in the good years, champ. We didn't, so we can't afford a huge expansionary stimulus now. He didn't argue that spending in a recession would better equip you to cut a deficit. He said deficit spending could mitigate the harmful short-term social effects of negative growth, using proceeds raised from the years of plenty. Also note that actually Osborne's strategy, excluding debt interest AND excluding the effect of unemployment on welfare, involves a real terms INCREASE in government spending over the term of the Parliament. Put simply: it's a Keynesian stimulus. It doesn't suit his (or his opponents') political agenda to admit this, but it's true.

Increasing spending by far less than inflation is a cut, not a stimulus. Osbourne has cut spending on infrastructure to the bare minimum, projects like HS2 do nothing for Scotland, yet we pay for them as we did for the Olympics with no discernable effect. It's clear that if we want spending to help Scotland we need independence.

Just because Labour abandoned Keynesian economics doesn't mean we have to. There is absolutely no evidence that austerity is working and much evidence that it is actively harming the country. For instance, this is the worst recovery since 1930 by a long, long chalk.

[Reynard]

I hate replying to big posts on this board.

You should stop then.

But you clearly have a low embarrassment threshold.

[Baxter Parp]

Translates as - "There's no reason to remove the oil from the calculations but I'll do so anyway as it's the only way to arrive at the figure which supports my argument."

Let's parliamo Ad Lib!

[Colkitto]

I think they are distancing themselves from all the other parties by doing this. Like everyone else, they know the game is up for the nats, they have aimed the twelve bore straight at their feet and blown half their leg away while they are at it. This is all to do with the next Holyrood elections and removing power from the SNP.

Nobody wants to go through another four years of watching XBL make a comple c**t of himself anyway.

Don't misunderstand me, I think Labur are a bigger shower of c***s than the SNP are. The SNP are just a shower of eager amateurs doing heir best, Labour are a real bunch of dangerous scum.

Maybe we should get someone like your hero Boris in London to show us Jocks how to run a government

[Baxter Parp]

You should stop then.

But you clearly have a low embarrassment threshold.

Let's get ad hominem!

[Baxter Parp]

Not really, no.

If you want to learn more about secession and international law, I can point you towards some much better resources.

Baxter Parp was in some ways unlucky. Had this been one of the usual "Nats together" websites, his pisspoor understanding of the legal position would have attracted admiring glances and "This guy knows his stuff" praise.

As it's here, he's been exposed as peddling a line of bullshit, which again shows the value of this website.

Still pretending rights and interests are gold reserves?

[xbl]

you'll probably know much better than most where the more unbiased resources are.

You have read his posts, right?

[Reynard]

Maybe we should get someone like your hero Boris in London to show us Jocks how to run a government

What?

[H_B]

Still pretending rights and interests are gold reserves?

It's probably best, after your humiliating climbdown, that you don't continue to dig any further into the pit of stupidity you created for yourself.

I've seen many ridiculous claims, but I can genuinely say I have never seen anyone try to claim that membership of an international body or being a signatory to a treaty is an "asset".

So kudos to you for at least introducing something new to the topic. New and foolish, but new nonetheless.

[xbl]

So assets are only tangible things? Is this confirmed?

[Baxter Parp]

It's probably best, after your humiliating climbdown, that you don't continue to dig any further into the pit of stupidity you created for yourself.

I've seen many ridiculous claims, but I can genuinely say I have never seen anyone try to claim that membership of an international body or being a signatory to a treaty is an "asset".

So kudos to you for at least introducing something new to the topic. New and foolish, but new nonetheless.

I didn't climbdown, South Sudan just wasn't a successor state (for whatever reason). However, what has become very clear is that UN membership just isn't an issue in the first place.

[H_B]

I didn't climbdown, South Sudan just wasn't a successor state (for whatever reason). However, what has become very clear is that UN membership just isn't an issue in the first place.

"For whatever reason"

I wonder what this reason might be. As you've had your hand up several times in the last day and a half, and you have provided comic relief, perhaps we can try someone else.

Yes, you at the back. Go for it.

[the jambo-rocker]

You have read his posts, right?

No offence to yourself but I'm happy to listen to and read everyone's (with the odd exception of course) opinion before making my mind up.