Colkitto Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Or spend less. Of course, but that's another win for Westminster too. We spend less, government becomes unpopular, we lose public services, less Police, NHS cuts, Council Tax rises,no more free bus travel/free prescriptions,free road tolls, free tuition fees.....etc You would have to raise Taxes just to keep what we have now.....No government could survive that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I thought we had the debate on universal benefits, and universal benefits won....... Anyhoo, Sarwar and Davidson both making speeches today, I wonder which one will be more right wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Sergio Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 It will be a big fat YES from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Oh yeah before I forget, I reply to HB's post, there was two students on Scotland tonight the other night, one from each side of the argument. They were polite to each other, gave sensible answers and were 100% better than most of the politicians and experts we normally see. It was a breath of fresh air, and no matter what happens next year, if this is the next generation of activists and politicians coming up, I have no fear for the future. After all, it's about them more than anything else.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deky Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Hopefully the union will go the same way as the old thread. It served it's purpose for a time but was struggling for relevance and had to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Hahn Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I'm a member of the SNP so I'm firmly in the yes camp. Genuinely surprised how the no camp has gone about it's work so far and yet to hear a positive argument for maintaining the union. I'd also like to add that I think Blair Jenkins is an excellent contributor in our campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorgieRoad Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I'll be voting yes because having an Independence day sounds like a fantastic opportunity to play the same titled classic by Martina McBride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Unbelievably, a pro indy article in the Scotsman: http://www.scotsman.com/news/karine-polwart-why-i-ll-vote-yes-despite-the-snp-1-2795982 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Unbelievably, a pro indy article in the Scotsman: http://www.scotsman.com/news/karine-polwart-why-i-ll-vote-yes-despite-the-snp-1-2795982 Some spin on the header, she doesn't mention the SNPin it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Unbelievably, a pro indy article in the Scotsman: http://www.scotsman.com/news/karine-polwart-why-i-ll-vote-yes-despite-the-snp-1-2795982 Did you notice the reaction to that article by the author though? http://wingsland.podgamer.com/karine-polwart-statement/ “Full text of my wee rant in favour of Yes Scotland in today’s Scotland on Sunday. For clarity, the title is not mine. If I’d wanted to frame my piece as an explicit go at the SNP then I would’ve done so. YES Scotland is not a covert SNP operation. I believe the independents, Greens, socialists, and growing number of pro-Indy Labour and Liberal activists bless if there are any of the latter left) must shape that agenda too. Anyway, here’s to more voices being heard, and more proper heartfelt and visionary exchange between us about what’s WRONG, and why, and what might fix it (whether you think Independence is a possible answer or not).” And from twitter: Karine Polwart @IAMKP @scotonsunday title not mine. Wee bit sleekit? The SNP are not mentioned by name anyhere in the article. The Scotsman seem to be shifting at the moment though, they are definitely less "staunch" than they were a couple months ago. They have even been poking fun at the scaremongering from the Unionists! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Scottish MP's in westminster really must be shitting it if we get a Yes vote. No more gravy train Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deky Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Oh yeah before I forget, I reply to HB's post, there was two students on Scotland tonight the other night, one from each side of the argument. They were polite to each other, gave sensible answers and were 100% better than most of the politicians and experts we normally see. It was a breath of fresh air, and no matter what happens next year, if this is the next generation of activists and politicians coming up, I have no fear for the future. After all, it's about them more than anything else.... I saw that too and totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Of course, but that's another win for Westminster too. We spend less, government becomes unpopular, we lose public services, less Police, NHS cuts, Council Tax rises,no more free bus travel/free prescriptions,free road tolls, free tuition fees.....etc You would have to raise Taxes just to keep what we have now.....No government could survive that. well, they could, if people want this level of service maintained in an independent Scotland. Taxes would go up, steeply, and it is fantasy to pretend otherwise. The big flaw in today's current shallow, image and headline-obsessed politics is that politicians are scared of telling the truth. If we want the current generous level of state provision continued we will have to pay for it. This idea that somehow a generous welfare state can be maintained whilst taxes are cut is total fantasy. If we ant a Scandinavian style system then we have to get used to paying Scandinavian levels of income tax. Red faced right wing perma-ragers in the south east are forever moaning about the NHS, public transport, the state of the roads, etc, but they suffer a near-total bowel prolapse if you point out that they should pay more tax to provide the levels of service they seem to expect. Experiments in government, around the world,since the eighties , have shown that privatisation and 'let the market decide' type politics have been a total failure, that have seen a greedy few enriched at the expense of everyone else. If Scotland goes independent, a new government should be very open and transparent; on line website should show up to date information on the collection of taxes and *exactly* where the money is going. It will be easier to track tax and spend policies in a smaller country and to hold politicians to account for the decisions they take, than it currently is from the UK Treasury. Whether we are a tax-and-welfare-state country post independence, or a low tax light regulation devil-take-the-hindmost-Stuart Dickson fantasy land is another important decision that voters in Scotland should take for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Can't be perfect in this world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMartyn86 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 When the old thread was started I was firmly in the undecided camp. I couldn't make my mind up on which way to vote. I was open to discussion and debate on why we should become independent or why we should stay part of the union. I've listened to both sides of the argument and since then I've decided to vote No. I honestly feel that we will be better off remaining part of the UK. I'm proud to be British and also proud to be Scottish. Why should we break up a country which together has achieved so much? To me they're too many questions and not enough answers. I'm talking about things like defence, education and the EU. There was Yes campaigners in Alloa town centre recently and when I was walking past the guy asked me what I would be voting for when I told him I would be voting No he asked me why and I told him that I think we are better together. He then tells me I would be £500 better off in an Independent Scotland. I looked at him and started laughing. I seriously couldn't believe he was asking me to break up a country for the sake of £500. I believe that for the present generation and future generations we are stronger together than going it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 When the old thread was started I was firmly in the undecided camp. I couldn't make my mind up on which way to vote. I was open to discussion and debate on why we should become independent or why we should stay part of the union. I've listened to both sides of the argument and since then I've decided to vote No. I honestly feel that we will be better off remaining part of the UK. I'm proud to be British and also proud to be Scottish. Why should we break up a country which together has achieved so much? To me they're too many questions and not enough answers. I'm talking about things like defence, education and the EU. There was Yes campaigners in Alloa town centre recently and when I was walking past the guy asked me what I would be voting for when I told him I would be voting No he asked me why and I told him that I think we are better together. He then tells me I would be £500 better off in an Independent Scotland. I looked at him and started laughing. I seriously couldn't believe he was asking me to break up a country for the sake of £500. I believe that for the present generation and future generations we are stronger together than going it alone. Have you heard of the McCrone report? Read that and then tell me if you still think that we were Better Together? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/how-black-gold-was-hijacked-north-sea-oil-and-the-betrayal-of-scotland-518697.html Oh, and the Scotsman link from today has revealed that in the 90s, the Tories chose to prioritise English shipyards, even though all the financial evidence said Scotland was the better choice. Oh, and world renowned economists said last week that Scotland would be better off going forward if we were independent. ALL of the evidence says that we have not been served well by the Union in the last century, are not currently being served well, and going forward, the projections are that independence will at worst, cost us £1 a year. And that is coming from the British Government. I am genuinely curious as to what specific evidence made you decide that we were Better Together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Why should we break up a country which together has achieved so much? Feel free to name one credible achievement the UK can take the credit for since Suez. One. Basically once the WWII vets gracefully pop their clogs we are left with the Welfare State: which the CDU on the back of Middle England's votes wishes to rip up and start over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 It's not really an economical question for me, although to others it is. We have done good things in the past, we have brought stability to huge chunks of the world, we have fought a few world wars to defend freedoms, but that is all in the past. The thing about history is that you can't change it, we still will have all that stuff to be proud of, but standing up to Hitler doesn't solve the problems of today. It doesn't solve youth unemployment, it doesn't solve generational poverty, it doesn't create a fair society. Now £500 may not be much to you, but it's actually to every person in Scotland an that is a large amount. We can spend it on things we wish to see, be that care grants to gummy bears, but the point is it will be ours to spend in a way we see fit. The country -UK needs an overhaul top to bottom. Even the most committed unionist thinks we need to change a few things, so what would you change? Can Holyrood do it? Will Westminster do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Oh, and I'm afraid you can't be Scottish. According to the No camp and official British legal advice, we were "extinguished". But yeah, I am genuinely curious to see what the evidence that changed your mind was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Scottish MP's in westminster really must be shitting it if we get a Yes vote. No more gravy train Not really. If you are good enough to get elected to Westminster you will be more than good enough to get elected to the SP. Holyrood's gravy train will do them nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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