Independence - how would you vote?

[xbl]

Please this is just painful trying to explain this to you. You claimed I said countries were not independent if they shared a monarchy. You went on to use Australia and Canada as examples. At absolutely no time did I say that they were not independent countries, in fact I agreed they were.

I never said that. What I said was that you considered Australia, a country with a monarchy to be an independent country. But if Scotland was to have the same monarch, it would be a half way house. Which is what you said.

Oh, and Ric. For the 47 millionth time. On day one, we will be keeping the pound and the monarchy. What happens next is up to us. What you going to do? Sit on your hands and support the Union?

[Ric]

Which reminds me, you never did enlighten us as to the true meaning of cognitive dissonance.

Do I have to teach you the language? Yo

And yes, I am. Because that is the treatment you deserve for the dishonesty in your posts. A yes voter? Please.

I am being dishonest?

What you mean is that I don't agree with you, so therefore you feel it is entirely right to snipe, assume and generally make an arse of yourself.

I don't think you are coming across as a true believer to the nat clown collective. I think you simply need to accept that everything that Nicola and Alex say is the gospel truth and you need to learn it and recite it and go forth and preach to the masses and convert as many don't knows so that you can swing this into a win from a seemingly hopeless position.

Good luck to you, but I reckon you will be viewed with suspicion by the cult of Alex

I am neither pro or anti. Voting Yes will cost us all money there is no doubting it. For me it's whether that money is worth it or if we will end up being independent in name, but very little else.

[xbl]

This is what I said:

And yes, I'm fully aware of what cognitive dissonance is, else I wouldn't have used the term. On one hand, you claim that not having our own currency and having the monarchy means we wouldn't be independent. On the other hand, you claim that France (which doesn't have its own country) and Australia (which has the monarchy), to pick just two of many, many examples, are independent countries.

Does that not give you a headache?

This is supported by:

You went on to use Australia and Canada as examples. At absolutely no time did I say that they were not independent countries, in fact I agreed they were.

Australia has monarchy = Independent.

The problem is that if Salmond wishes to keep the pound and keep the monarchy then in turn I would abstain from the vote.

We either go fully independent or not at all, some half way house is simply not acceptable in my eyes.

Scotland has monarchy = Not Independent.

[xbl]

I have now made a decision on this, previously I was of the mindset that psychologically I can understand the desire for Scotland to be independent but the financial outlay and possible ramifications would not benefit Scotland at this time. However as more and more desperate attacks come from London, from the leaking of the Faslane thing to the roaming charges and claims about oil running out in less than 5 years, coupled with the race to appease the xenophobic right wing nut jobs down South, it's clear to me that I simply don't wish to be part of the Union any more.

Meanwhile several hours and one slipped mask later:

I am neither pro or anti.

[Ric]

Oh, and Ric. For the 47 millionth time. On day one, we will be keeping the pound and the monarchy.

Could you provide evidence where the Scottish government claims this to be the case, rather than you just saying so. I am not denying it's considered the be the case but all I have ever asked is for you to post a link to where the official documentation says this is the case.

btw, I checked through the thread and still found only one instance of that PDF you claimed had been posted twice "since I started whining".

What happens next is up to us. What you going to do?

I am certainly not voting for a referendum which means that we keep the pound and the monarchy. To me, and I think I need to be very clear here, "TO ME", that is not independence but a country controlled by another.

[lr19]

I am neither pro or anti. Voting Yes will cost us all money there is no doubting it. For me it's whether that money is worth it or if we will end up being independent in name, but very little else.

You may want to consider whether voting No could cost more than voting yes.

[xbl]

I am certainly not voting for a referendum which means that we keep the pound and the monarchy. To me, and I think I need to be very clear here, "TO ME", that is not independence but a country controlled by another.

Team: St. Mirren.

[Reynard]

Do I have to teach you the language? Yo

I am being dishonest?

What you mean is that I don't agree with you, so therefore you feel it is entirely right to snipe, assume and generally make an arse of yourself.

I am neither pro or anti. Voting Yes will cost us all money there is no doubting it. For me it's whether that money is worth it or if we will end up being independent in name, but very little else.

Depends if we join the EU or not. I wonder if we will still here the same deafening level of nat whinge about how Brussels is telling us what to do. Or if they evern realise just how much of the law being passed both in Westminster and Holyrood is rubber stamping EU directives.

Regardless of which set of clown politicians we choose to ruin our lives, the whole system is going tits up in a debt bomb anyway. Scotland on it's own isn't going to escape it. In fact, it will be going down just that little bit quicker than it's bigger neighbour. Thats how these things go.

I'm voting NO simply because it annoys the f**k out of nationalists. And they are amongst the stupidist people that get involved in politics so they deserve it. That, and the fact it's going to be really funny in here when they lose.

[Ric]

XBL are you actually this obtuse in real life? I mean really you seem to make connections where there are none, assume people have said things that they didn't and use comments out of context to back up other statements?

[Ric]

You may want to consider whether voting No could cost more than voting yes.

Indeed.

Voting yes while keeping the pound means we have no control over what the Bank of England sets the rates at.

Voting no retains some limited control.

[Baxter Parp]

Yeah, but the problem with "did" is that it's not relevant in the modern context. As I detailed in my post regarding monarchy and Australia, Canada, India and Pakistan, it's what is relevant in the context of the time.

You mean it's what you want to be relevant, not what actually *is* relevant.

[xbl]

XBL are you actually this obtuse in real life? I mean really you seem to make connections where there are none, assume people have said things that they didn't and use comments out of context to back up other statements?

Coming from the man who wants to know where it says we will be keeping the pound and monarchy? EVERYWHERE.

What comments are out of context? You said that if Scotland keeps the monarchy, it will not be fully independent, but a "half way house". And yet, Australia has the same monarchy, but you said that it is an independent country. Nothing obtuse about it.

You also went from "I can't support the Union" to "I am neither pro or anti". Again, this is stuff that you said.

[Ric]

Team: St. Mirren.

So... ?

What a bizarre comment.

[Reynard]

Could you provide evidence where the Scottish government claims this to be the case, rather than you just saying so. I am not denying it's considered the be the case but all I have ever asked is for you to post a link to where the official documentation says this is the case.

btw, I checked through the thread and still found only one instance of that PDF you claimed had been posted twice "since I started whining".

I am certainly not voting for a referendum which means that we keep the pound and the monarchy. To me, and I think I need to be very clear here, "TO ME", that is not independence but a country controlled by another.

But we part own the very independent UK political state bank and will have a representitive sitting on the board fighting tooth and nail for interest rates and monetary policy that will suit an independent Scotland. I'm sure that whoever that fella is, will be able to convince the committee to do things in Scotlands favour. And I'm sure the UK taxpayer will be more than happy to act as lender of last resort to a new state that has just left it whilst flicking the vicks at them. That's going to happen. Salmond says so.

[Enigma]

Ric. You said you were voting yes. You then said you would abstain should the pound and the monarchy remain, "no half-way house" etc. The SNP are pretty clear that the monarch and the pound will both remain post independence, so, are you voting yes or abstaining? You do know the SNP's position on these matters are not at all likely to change.

[xbl]

So... ?

What a bizarre comment.

It really isn't. St. Mirren fans are almost consistently Unionist. Ever read b&w army? It is like a glorious British tribute to Thatcher's Britain.

[Ric]

You mean it's what you want to be relevant, not what actually *is* relevant.

So time has changed nothing in the financial and political world since Australia, NZ and Eire gained independence as that is exactly what you are implying.

Coming from the man who wants to know where it says we will be keeping the pound and monarchy? EVERYWHERE.

I hate to break it to you, but there it is not being obtuse when asking for you to back up your comments with a little evidence. In fact I would consider it a prerequisite.

What comments are out of context?

You used a reply to Reynard's post regarding the "cult of Alex" and somehow related it to a comment I made about voting. Clearly wrong, clearly out of context.

You said that if Scotland keeps the monarchy, it will not be fully independent, but a "half way house". And yet, Australia has the same monarchy, but you said that it is an independent country. Nothing obtuse about it.

Once again, selective. I said monarchy AND currency, not just monarchy but you have spent 4 hours trying to argue a premise I never disagreed with in the first place.

You also went from "I can't support the Union" to "I am neither pro or anti". Again, this is stuff that you said.

Once more, you read something and assumed it was linked. The reply was specifically to Reynard's comment about the Cult of Alex. If you are unable to understand that, then that really isn't my problem, it's yours.

[Reynard]

So... ?

What a bizarre comment.

You have to remember Xbasslichtie's entrance into the world of football forums as a porky 14 year old, the season Arbroath were in the first division about a decade or so ago. He had a bit of a hard on for trashing St.Mirren back then, even though we had never met his club team before in the league, or even in cup competitions. He had no idea why he hated St.Mirren so much, he just did. It was a feeeling he had. He was eventually banned by Div from B&W Army for being "boring". To date, he is the only punter to have been banned for that reason.

Looks like he has continued his childhood crush into adulthood. Its a bit funny really. And a bit sad too. But his condition clearly dominates him.

[lr19]

Indeed.

Voting yes while keeping the pound means we have no control over what the Bank of England sets the rates at.

Voting no retains some limited control.

Keeping the pound is SNP policy. There will be an election in the event of a yes vote and there is no way I would vote SNP

[xbl]

Is it like a magic combination? Specifically Currency AND monarchy? So if we scrapped the monarchy on day one but kept the pound, we would be independent?