RandomGuy. Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 37 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Barcelona have more or less always played their youth players regardless of their financial circumstances though. Their 2011 Champions League winning team, widely regarded as their best in recent times, had 7 youth team graduates in the starting XI (albeit Pique went to Man Utd and then returned) and another 4 on the bench. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that players of the quality of Yamal, Balde, Cubarsi, Gavi or Pedri wouldn't have had these opportunities regardless of the club's financial situation. Three of them are probably going to be amongst the best players of their generation. 7 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said: Barcelona have always played teenagers when there were no such financial issues. Players like Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pedro, Puyol all kind of point to Barcelona having the expertise in developing young players into world class talent, some of the greatest footballers the world has seen. You could argue the financial problems came when they were signing older players like Lewandowski, Raphina, griezmann on big fees so have reverted back to a more youthful policy. Yeah I think a few of them would have forced their way through regardless, but they were definitely trying to move away from the youth policy IMO so using them as an example of a club to aspire to recreate isn't the best I don't think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jives Miguel Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 5 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said: Except this lad is actually Polish Not really the point is it mate. The point is that its likely a pack of lies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 16 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said: Not really the point is it mate. The point is that its likely a pack of lies. Why would it be a pack lies..when the lad is clearly from Poland It's nothing like the McGeady situation 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 17 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said: Not really the point is it mate. The point is that its likely a pack of lies. Yeah what is a pack of lies? If he's Polish and his parents are Polish are he wants to represent them and also feels he's been given a clearer understanding of his future there then who are you to criticise? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 24 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Yeah I think a few of them would have forced their way through regardless, but they were definitely trying to move away from the youth policy IMO so using them as an example of a club to aspire to recreate isn't the best I don't think. Think even with a club like Barcelona it's going to come in waves. Your going to have lean years in terms of youths. And sometimes better players are going to create better players around them by lifting the general standard. So their then forced to buy to maintain the clubs position. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jives Miguel Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 11 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said: Why would it be a pack lies..when the lad is clearly from Poland It's nothing like the McGeady situation Not sure how you're not following what I'm saying I'm saying the "Scotland showing no interest" stuff likely is a pack of lies, as it was with McCarthy and McGeady Really quite simple mate to understand mate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 31 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said: Not really the point is it mate. The point is that its likely a pack of lies. It's not. The scout who has done a lot of the work for the Polish FA said he'd done that much work and knew Scottish youngsters were neglected, and our "head of youth" said Poland have done a huge amount of work to get him while Scotland haven't done a thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jives Miguel Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Just now, RandomGuy. said: It's not. The scout who has done a lot of the work for the Polish FA said he'd done that much work and knew Scottish youngsters were neglected, and our "head of youth" said Poland have done a huge amount of work to get him while Scotland haven't done a thing. The Polish scout said that? Well it must be true then. The last Scotland U18 squad had players, with no first team experience, from League 1 Hamilton, Crewe, Lincoln City. So I find it very difficult to believe Scotland would have no interest in calling up someone eligible who is getting gametime for St Johnstone at 17. Its one of the number of cliches that get banded about when someone picks another country over us. "Archie Knox said I was shite", "a promise to my dying grandpa", "Scotland never wanted me" and so on. I'll take it with a pinch of salt tbh. I think almost always the real reason is because they foresee a more successful international future with the alternative team. Which is fair enough really. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 2 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said: The Polish scout said that? Well it must be true then. As did our Scottish, vastly experienced, Head of Youth, who said he'd tried to get Scottish staff on the case but nothing was ever done or responded to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, albagubrath said: I cannot think why you would believe this to be true. The record in this country of converting promising youth players to regular first team players in our league is abysmal. I agree, and maybe “main reason” is debatable, but you don’t think the constant stream of our most talented young players to the English youth system as soon as they turn 16 is a factor? Kerr Smith made his first team debut for United in a friendly when he was 15 and played ten times before he was 17. He then signed for Aston Villa and didn’t play with adults again until he went on loan to St Johnstone two years later. Edited August 21 by adamntg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albagubrath Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 3 minutes ago, adamntg said: I agree, but you don’t think the constant stream of our most talented young players to the English youth system as soon as they turn 16 is a factor? Kerr Smith made his first team debut for United in a friendly when he was 15 and played ten times before he was 17. He then signed for Aston Villa and didn’t play with adults again until he went on loan to St Johnstone two years later. No, I don't think it is a factor at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 16 minutes ago, albagubrath said: No, I don't think it is a factor at all. Of course it is a factor, the homegrown rule has (being at an English club for three years minimum between 16 and 21) has changed the way English clubs have looked at youth players and a lot of them are now shopping in Scotland more than ever before. It's well highlighted in media. Getting in a player from Scotland who is from the UK, speaks the language, similar culture etc is more likely to stay at the club for three years or more than someone from Spain for example. Also, Brexit has made it more difficult for clubs to qualify players as homegrown because they can't sign foreign-born players under 18 making it even more likely for English clubs to target Scottish players. Furthermore, in the Premier League, you are required to have at least eight homegrown players in your season squad so it makes total sense for these clubs to look at Scotland for youth players. Edited August 21 by Butters Scotch 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Ferguson's Hat Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 If our young players were better then more of them would get game-time. The environment is perfect for good players to thrive and grow, but unfortunately they're mostly just shite no-hopers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immcinto Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 42 minutes ago, adamntg said: I agree, and maybe “main reason” is debatable, but you don’t think the constant stream of our most talented young players to the English youth system as soon as they turn 16 is a factor? Kerr Smith made his first team debut for United in a friendly when he was 15 and played ten times before he was 17. He then signed for Aston Villa and didn’t play with adults again until he went on loan to St Johnstone two years later. At least he got two years of proper training. I am not sure forcing SPFL clubs to play more U-21s will help. They will just pick the lads that have bulk/matured early. Any smaller lad with technical ability will be virtually useless to your average SPFL club. Get them out of the Scottish system ASAP. Preferrably abroad, but the bigger English teams have proper continental coaches on their book so that will do as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, Jives Miguel said: The Polish scout said that? Well it must be true then. The last Scotland U18 squad had players, with no first team experience, from League 1 Hamilton, Crewe, Lincoln City. So I find it very difficult to believe Scotland would have no interest in calling up someone eligible who is getting gametime for St Johnstone at 17. Its one of the number of cliches that get banded about when someone picks another country over us. "Archie Knox said I was shite", "a promise to my dying grandpa", "Scotland never wanted me" and so on. I'll take it with a pinch of salt tbh. I think almost always the real reason is because they foresee a more successful international future with the alternative team. Which is fair enough really. Well I can understand questioning it as we don't really know what the story is. But to say affirmatively with absolutely no personal information that it's "a pack of lies" is just silly sausage stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) Jack Fletcher with 2 goals last night including this beauty. Hopefully he sees the light: Edited August 21 by Chripper 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 3 hours ago, immcinto said: At least he got two years of proper training. I am not sure forcing SPFL clubs to play more U-21s will help. They will just pick the lads that have bulk/matured early. Any smaller lad with technical ability will be virtually useless to your average SPFL club. Get them out of the Scottish system ASAP. Preferrably abroad, but the bigger English teams have proper continental coaches on their book so that will do as well. I wasn’t arguing for or against quotas. I was only suggesting that one reason why there are fewer young players in the SPFL - which is what the discussion is about - is because those most likely to be capable have been signed by English academies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, Chripper said: Jack Fletcher with 2 goals last night including this beauty. Hopefully he sees the light: Pffft, a lucky hit. He could’ve been a sub goalie for Arbroath. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 50 minutes ago, adamntg said: Pffft, a lucky hit. He could’ve been a sub goalie for Arbroath. Joking aside, I think Jack'll be on the United bench a fair few times this season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 2 hours ago, Chripper said: Joking aside, I think Jack'll be on the United bench a fair few times this season. Sadly, if we want him to play for Scotland it seems we have to hope he’s good but not too good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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