Scottish Independence

[doulikefish]

Mother nature has joined the NO side.

bogey wheels aff.png

seen that thankfully nobody hurt so point and laugh is ongoing from all sides

[Blaven]

Mother nature has joined the NO side.

bogey wheels aff.png

That was awfay nice o ye tae post a YES picture. Cheers.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

And are you happy that you were in that position that it was tough and you just had to get on with it?

The issue about poverty isn't about wether people are cold, hungry, healthy etc in global terms. It is about the poverty gap in the country that we live in and whether or not it is acceptable that people born in certain communities in this country have appreciably worse life chances than their neighbours.

It is about more than "it isnae fair" either. Societies with social mobility, educated and motivated populations and where the brightest and best can rise to the top in a meritocracy with the barriers to participation removed are obviously going to flourish compared to those where folk "just get on with it" and accept their station in life.

This isnt even a yes/no, left/right argument it is absolute basics, how to structure a society 101.

I agree about fairness and opportunity - the trouble is though that the solution for some is just to throw money at the problem.

It's a lot more complicated than that.

For example, I strongly support the principle of quality social housing - but there should be implicit responsibilities that go along with this right. I've lost track of the number of times certain parts of Dundee have been redeveloped only to return to the same shiteholes they were before when the occupants are moved back in. In some cases redevelopnent has happened not just once but two or more times. Clearly something isn't right when that happens.

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

Why would you probably vote YES?

Didn't see this until now.

Essentially because I want Britain to be better. Many of the things that I find most frustrating about Britian socially and politically are pretty ingrained, and a Yes vote would give an independent Scotland a chance to address them. Now, I am pretty sceptical about whether iScotland would actually change things that much, but at least the opportunity is there. My ideal scenario would be that Scotland does vote Yes, and becomes a progressive beacon that people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland (although they'd probably be too busy throwing things at each other) can look to and say "I want some of that, why aren't our politicians delivering it?" If Scotland is successful, it can become an example for the rest of us.

I still disagree with a whole range of things that pro-indy people/organisations come out with, which is why I get into arguments on here, but I've never had an issue with the idea of Scottish independence,and in the last year or so I've changed from "I don't really care either way" to "I'd quite like to see a Yes vote".

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Define feckless and how it can be detected in offenders.

The Oxford dictionary definition:

"Lacking initiative or strength of character; irresponsible"

For me that is those who don't take responsibility for their actions (or lack of action). People who expect the state to pick up the tab when they f**k up and make no effort to help themselves.

Detecting it is another matter - or rather proving it. It's why I'd like to see an overhaul of the tax/benefits system that instead of punishing the feckless rewards behaviour that isn't feckless.

[Confidemus]

Detecting it is another matter - or rather proving it. It's why I'd like to see an overhaul of the tax/benefits system that instead of punishing the feckless rewards behaviour that isn't feckless.

Great idea. Throw the good poor people a treat when they perform a trick.

[Blaven]

The Oxford dictionary definition:

"Lacking initiative or strength of character; irresponsible"

For me that is those who don't take responsibility for their actions (or lack of action). People who expect the state to pick up the tab when they f**k up and make no effort to help themselves.

Detecting it is another matter - or rather proving it. It's why I'd like to see an overhaul of the tax/benefits system that instead of punishing the feckless rewards behaviour that isn't feckless.

Has the uk £1.5 trillion dept been run up by the benefit system?

[1320Lichtie]

Didn't see this until now.

Essentially because I want Britain to be better. Many of the things that I find most frustrating about Britian socially and politically are pretty ingrained, and a Yes vote would give an independent Scotland a chance to address them. Now, I am pretty sceptical about whether iScotland would actually change things that much, but at least the opportunity is there. My ideal scenario would be that Scotland does vote Yes, and becomes a progressive beacon that people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland (although they'd probably be too busy throwing things at each other) can look to and say "I want some of that, why aren't our politicians delivering it?" If Scotland is successful, it can become an example for the rest of us.

I love that, I think the same. Word for word.

[ayrmad]

Didn't see this until now.

Essentially because I want Britain to be better. Many of the things that I find most frustrating about Britian socially and politically are pretty ingrained, and a Yes vote would give an independent Scotland a chance to address them. Now, I am pretty sceptical about whether iScotland would actually change things that much, but at least the opportunity is there. My ideal scenario would be that Scotland does vote Yes, and becomes a progressive beacon that people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland (although they'd probably be too busy throwing things at each other) can look to and say "I want some of that, why aren't our politicians delivering it?" If Scotland is successful, it can become an example for the rest of us.

I still disagree with a whole range of things that pro-indy people/organisations come out with, which is why I get into arguments on here, but I've never had an issue with the idea of Scottish independence,and in the last year or so I've changed from "I don't really care either way" to "I'd quite like to see a Yes vote".

I think you'll find a lot of that resonates with most YES supporters, it's hard not to come out with things that people disagree with, there's a wee bit of a pack mentality from YES supporters, a bit understandable given the downright bias of the MSM in this country.

[Tryfield]

That was awfay nice o ye tae post a YES picture. Cheers.

You're welcome pal.

Can't beat a bit of fail for a wee chuckle.

[Blaven]

You're welcome pal.

Can't beat a bit of fail for a wee chuckle.

You will have been fair enjoying Mr Bairn the last couple o days then.

[P45]

You know BT have hit a new low when they need to use the wind blowing down a sign as political ammo.

Is this the way it is going to be for the next 7 weeks?

[Baxter Parp]

The Oxford dictionary definition:

"Lacking initiative or strength of character; irresponsible"

For me that is those who don't take responsibility for their actions (or lack of action). People who expect the state to pick up the tab when they f**k up and make no effort to help themselves.

Detecting it is another matter - or rather proving it. It's why I'd like to see an overhaul of the tax/benefits system that instead of punishing the feckless rewards behaviour that isn't feckless.

Define acceptable and unacceptable behaviour.

[Highlandmagyar]

Great idea. Throw the good poor people a treat when they perform a trick.

If Yes adopt that as a policy then you've got my vote.

[Blaven]

If Yes adopt that as a policy then you've got my vote.

What kind of treat would you like Hingymajigger?

[Highlandmagyar]

What kind of treat would you like Hingymajigger?

That's so nice of you to offer. But I don' t qualify as I am not poor.Loadsamoney!

[Mr Bairn]

UK government announces that migrants can now only claim JSA for 3 months. Fantastic news.

[Highlandmagyar]

UK government announces that migrants can now only claim JSA for 3 months. Fantastic news.

God almighty! What a soft touch this nation is.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Great idea. Throw the good poor people a treat when they perform a trick.

I wasn't particularly talking about the poor. More about using the tax and benefits system to encourage saving, pensions or real unemployment protection for example. Also I don't see anything wrong with giving the unemployed employment through public works projects - so long as the wage is a living wage, the scope for improving communities, through the efforts of local people, is something that should seriously be explored.

Call me old-fashioned, but I'd also like to see National Insurance used the way it was intended and not just another source of taxation for the government to use willy-nilly. Perhaps the really radical thing would be to not spend National Insurance income but to use it instead to invest.

Clearly there would be implications of existing government income and expenditure - either in the shape of increased taxes or (more likely) cutting expenditure/increasing efficiency.

One good place to start would be the tendering process for government capital projects - it never ceases to amaze me how much they over-run - if I were a private individual given a cost for a project I'd expect the final bill to be close to that tendered - not something multiple times the fantady tender figure. Why are there never penalties when there is an delay? Why is it the same clique that always get the contracts? (And I suspect the same would happen under independence).

There is gross inefficiency in the public sector - money wasted on pet projects that don't have the impact that is claimed they will have. The public sector should have huge purchasing power given the economies of scale - yet it doesn't happen on the scale required due to petty bureaucracy and individuals too busy protecting their little empires.

I could go on but I think you might get my drift.

[Blaven]

That's so nice of you to offer. But I don' t qualify as I am not poor.Loadsamoney!

And a NO voter?

Surely naw.