Ad Lib Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Are you still trying to peddle this idea we'll be forced to join the Euro? No. And I've never suggested that. So the word "still" is misleading on your part. Don't get me wrong, the statement in bold is correct, but as I and many others have repeatedly stated, one of those bits of criteria is voluntary( membership of the ERM II for at least two years). However, once again you have decided not to mention this because it fits your agenda. Membership of the ERMII is not "voluntary". New member-states are subjected to supervision and are expected to provide a timetable, to be reviewed periodically by the ECB and the Commission, for meeting the convergence criteria and joining the mechanism. In practice, absolutely, the convergence criteria can be circumvented, but not without taking certain fiscal and monetary decisions, which may be contrary to the member-state in question's interests. One such example of this is the monitoring that is presently taking place on Bulgaria. Their membership of the ERMII has been postponed because of the difficulties it is having keeping constantly within the inflation and deficit requirements and because of underlying instability in the Eurozone that presently exist. It does not mean that it has an indefinite right not to join the ERM II, just a potentially protracted stay of execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 We're already in the european union ! (we meet anything they could possibly throw at us) This isn't even remotely relevant as a response to what I've just spoken about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Welcome to our world.. Except I challenge explicit points that people make with reference to evidence. You've literally posted something that isn't even an answer, let alone an incoherent one, to what I've said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOGI IS GOD Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 This is the best debate I've seen so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 How many times can Margaret Curran tell us how she is "patriotic" and "proud to be scottish" EDIT: Curran also saying if an independent Scottish government may have different immigration policy from the rUK, then they maybe have to have border control. Sorry but isn't the point of independence is so we can have these choices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabianKnight Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Breaking headline http://wingsoverscotland.com/night-bombing/ Source is Financial Times. http://archive.is/k7x0s Big news for Indy Scotland, well hiya cat meet pidgeons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Breaking headline http://wingsoverscotland.com/night-bombing/ Source is Financial Times. Big news for Indy Scotland, well hiya cat meet pidgeons. That's not what it means. It simply means the UK Government won't unilaterally change the law to shift bonds to be directly payable by the Scottish Government. Instead, as was the initial arrangement for, e.g. Ireland, Scotland will be expected to pay, periodically, in GBP, a contribution in lieu of maturing bonds until its equivalent amount has been reimbursed. Nor, as Wings is suggesting, does it mean they are "planning" for a currency Union. Zimbabwe's international loans aren't in the Zimbabwean Dollar; they're in the US Dollar for the most part. This is how government debts operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabianKnight Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 That's not what it means. It simply means the UK Government won't unilaterally change the law to shift bonds to be directly payable by the Scottish Government. Instead, as was the initial arrangement for, e.g. Ireland, Scotland will be expected to pay, periodically, in GBP, a contribution in lieu of maturing bonds until its equivalent amount has been reimbursed. Nor, as Wings is suggesting, does it mean they are "planning" for a currency Union. Zimbabwe's international loans aren't in the Zimbabwean Dollar; they're in the US Dollar for the most part. This is how government debts operate. Yeah realised as soon as I posted that my initial reaction wasn't quite the case I thought it was. Still an interesting development none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Yeah realised as soon as I posted that my initial reaction wasn't quite the case I thought it was. Still an interesting development none the less. To be honest, I don't think it's particularly interesting. Any informed observer would have anticipated this anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 UK treasury saying they will take responsibility for all of the £1.2tr debt if we vote yes. http://archive.is/k7x0s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 They'll also enter into a currency union to prevent "market jitters" as well. No doubt about it. Wish they would just admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 http://yes2014.net/2014/01/12/uk-takes-responsibility-for-all-uk-debt-on-independence/ Post YES vote negotiations already taking place? The pro-unionists wont like this one bit. Blows apart their ridiculous notion that Westminster hold all the cards. Looks like the rUK nee Scotland in that currency union after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Membership of the ERMII is not "voluntary". Yes it is. You could not be more wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Denmark joined the ERMII in 1999 - not adopted the Euro. Lithuania joined in 2004 - not adopted the Euro Latvia joined in 2005 - not adopted the Euro According to the EU commission ERMII is voluntary. http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/euro/adoption/erm2/index_en.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 http://yes2014.net/2014/01/12/uk-takes-responsibility-for-all-uk-debt-on-independence/ Post YES vote negotiations already taking place? The pro-unionists wont like this one bit. Blows apart their ridiculous notion that Westminster hold all the cards. Looks like the rUK nee Scotland in that currency union after all. Looks like the UK making sure the markets are not spooked to me. Making sure they know they will be paid back for any debt issued to the UK regardless of what Salmond and his clowns get up to in their own sand pit. It has got precisely f**k all to do with your currency union drivel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Pointed out to me previously. An older story but one which seems to back up recent reports that currency union is likely. http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25154758 Seems like the BofE really need this. Good news for Independence supporters and good news for rUK too. rUK needs Scotland to remain in the currency union. Scottish exports are pivotal to rUKs balance of payments and by extension the future strength of Sterling. The rest of the UK has a trade deficit, Scotland does not. Likewise, Scotland is rUKs second largest trading partner, £60bn worth of trade north and south of the border supports up to 700,000 jobs in England alone trade barriers anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryfield Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Latvia joined in 2005 - not adopted the Euro Joined the Euro 01/01/14 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25567096 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Joined the Euro 01/01/14 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25567096 I stand corrected. I was quoting from the EU commissions website which I linked to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Given Westminsters lamentable record on borrowing and spending, Scotland will of course be insisting on prudent fiscal parameters for both partners if we are going to allow the rest of the UK to share a currency with us in future. Never again will Scotland allow its financial strength to be undermined by policy decisions in London which have, most symbolically, led to the loss of Britains triple AAA credit rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davi3j Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Joined the Euro 01/01/14http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25567096 and all because they voluntarily joined ERM II At the request of the Latvian authorities, the ministers of the euro area Member Statesof the European Union, the President of the European Central Bank and the ministers and thecentral bank governors of Denmark, Estonia, Lithuania, Slovenia and Latvia have decided, bymutual agreement, following a common procedure involving the European Commission andafter consultation of the Economic and Financial Committee, to include the Latvian lats in theExchange Rate Mechanism II (ERM II). http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/publication6193_en.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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