kiddy Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 If this is the case why have Better Together spent the last year or so telling us that they are all Patriotic Scots? Only a real Scot would do that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMjag Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 If this is the case why have Better Together spent the last year or so telling us that they are all Patriotic Scots? I generally agree with what he says there, but you're right, all this 'proud to be Scottish' patter is just cringeworthy, and something that Darling is very guilty of. One of the things about this debate that I take most issue with is the (over)use of the term 'nationalist'. People genuinely seem to think it is a term for a Yes voter or SNP figure in the same way that, say, 'Tory' is for a Conservative. That just shows a blatant misunderstanding of what the word means, because I will be voting Yes, and if there was a Holyrood election tomorrow I would be voting SNP - but I am absolutely opposed to nationalist politics. Anyone from BitterTogether criticising the flag-waving element of the debate is absolutely correct - but then how do they account for the nationalism within their own ranks which, from my general observations anyway, seems to be actually more rife there than it is in the Yes camp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I generally agree with what he says there, but you're right, all this 'proud to be Scottish' patter is just cringeworthy, and something that Darling is very guilty of. One of the things about this debate that I take most issue with is the (over)use of the term 'nationalist'. People genuinely seem to think it is a term for a Yes voter or SNP figure in the same way that, say, 'Tory' is for a Conservative. That just shows a blatant misunderstanding of what the word means, because I will be voting Yes, and if there was a Holyrood election tomorrow I would be voting SNP - but I am absolutely opposed to nationalist politics. Anyone from BitterTogether criticising the flag-waving element of the debate is absolutely correct - but then how do they account for the nationalism within their own ranks which, from my general observations anyway, seems to be actually more rife there than it is in the Yes camp? Did you seriously just criticise the tone of the debate and then use the term 'Bitter Together' in the next sentence? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMjag Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Did you seriously just criticise the tone of the debate and then use the term 'Bitter Together' in the next sentence? Seriously? Given it is that side who are indeed most guilty of muddying the waters with lazy terms like 'nationalist' as a result of nothing but their sheer hatred of the SNP and the very real emergence of the Scottish Independence movement, it's a perfectly apt term. Pipe down, sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Darling getting a bit flustered on Newsnight, apparently a currency union is "dead in the water" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaldo Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Darling getting a bit flustered on Newsnight, apparently a currency union is "dead in the water" Gordon Brewer wasn't even putting him under that much pressure and he was still getting in a flap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Given it is that side who are indeed most guilty of muddying the waters with lazy terms like 'nationalist' as a result of nothing but their sheer hatred of the SNP and the very real emergence of the Scottish Independence movement, it's a perfectly apt term. Pipe down, sport. I agree but you can't complain about them for doing something and then immediately do something similar in response. The Yes campaign must take the moral high ground if we are going to win enough people round. By all means point out the negativity and underhand tactics but do so in a way which will welcome undecided voters in - not turn them off with petty squabbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Nice to see Westminster staying out of it, with William Hague turning up in Glasgow today, to tell us again that we'll have to reapply for the EU. He should be asked, 'Where's the Organ Grinder'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 It must have hurt Severin Carrell to write this stuff. "FCO analysis moves the UK government closer to the Scottish government's insistence that the EU is unlikely to adopt a strict, orthodox position on an independent Scotland's application" http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jan/17/independent-scotland-special-eu-deal-uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 William Hague was a good choice to talk about the potential consequences of independence IMO, as he doesn't have a track record for scaremongering bullshit when it comes to Scotland: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/politics97/news/08/0808/hague.shtml Mr Hague said Scottish voters should look to the future and that four or five years into a Scottish parliament they would be disappointed, disillusioned and depressed, and living in a high tax ghetto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Good to see this kind of article on BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25144351 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Good to see this kind of article on BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25144351 The independence debate needs these other voices to be heard. Must be loads of folk that would support independence but maybe don't like the SNP. Thing is the SNP will probably not last very long after independence as their raison d'etre will be gone. On second thoughts mibbes that's a reason to vote no. The thought of prime minister Lamont!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 The independence debate needs these other voices to be heard. Must be loads of folk that would support independence but maybe don't like the SNP. Thing is the SNP will probably not last very long after independence as their raison d'etre will be gone. On second thoughts mibbes that's a reason to vote no. The thought of prime minister Lamont!!! On independence we need to have an Oil Fund enshrined in law, Lamont & Co just want to spend it all, I'm voting for a new brighter future, not the same old one with Scotland independent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Nice to see Westminster staying out of it, with William Hague turning up in Glasgow today, to tell us again that we'll have to reapply for the EU. He should be asked, 'Where's the Organ Grinder'? Only danger to Scotland in the EU is the Tory referendum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 On independence we need to have an Oil Fund enshrined in law, That would be an utterly ridiculous idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 That would be an utterly ridiculous idea. No it wouldn't, if it's left to politicians it would be pished against the wall,other than the portion required to service our national debt the rest should be left to accrue + or -compound interest through the markets. Short term pain for sustainable long term gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 No it wouldn't, if it's left to politicians it would be pished against the wall,other than the portion required to service our national debt the rest should be left to accrue + or -compound interest through the markets. Short term pain for sustainable long term gain. That could be like having to put £100 in a savings account at the same time as having to borrow £100 from Wonga to meet your monthly bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Brian Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 That could be like having to put £100 in a savings account at the same time as having to borrow £100 from Wonga to meet your monthly bills. That's a better option than we currently have under a Westminster regime. We get a better rate from Wonga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 That's a better option than we currently have under a Westminster regime. We get a better rate from Wonga I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBamboo Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 That could be like having to put £100 in a savings account at the same time as having to borrow £100 from Wonga to meet your monthly bills. That depends on how the debt - asset negotiations go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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