jim_bo Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Aye no bother. My sense of Scottish identity isn't going to diminish just because a lot of people are daft enough to vote no. Why support England or Wales then ? By your logic, they don't represent a real country either. I think a lot of people are going to be crushed by it. We as a nation have never voted on the union. It was imposed on us. At the heart of many, many nationalists is a core belief, a faith, that given the opportunity Scots would vote to be independent. When they vote No it is going to crush them. Their heart will go out of it... I am sorry. And very very sad about all of this... but it is coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Brian Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 There is a sizeable chunk of the Scottish people who will desire independence regardless. You are right in saying that a no vote will be crushing to many, but in no way whatsoever will it kill off the desire. It will probably have the opposite effect to many and make them more determined. The decision will come around again at some point in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingsoverperthshire Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I think a lot of people are going to be crushed by it. We as a nation have never voted on the union. It was imposed on us. At the heart of many, many nationalists is a core belief, a faith, that given the opportunity Scots would vote to be independent. When they vote No it is going to crush them. Their heart will go out of it... I am sorry. And very very sad about all of this... but it is coming. Well I must be the complete opposite of you as I'm very confident that we will vote Yes next Autumn. Going by the polls at the very worst position (using yougov, Ipsos-mori) skewed logic Yes is at 40%. Pannelbase have Yes at 46% and I'm expecting a slight increase in the next poll (since all other polls have shown a slight swing to Yes) It's going to be close but I reckon we'll get the swing we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_bo Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Hey, you know I am not saying all of you will be crushed. I know fine well some of you are so strong minded you will never be beaten. But generally what I say is true. A No vote will devastate interest in the national team. From a national perspective, which is at the core of 'national' football, it is humiliating, on so many levels. People will not want be associated with it post No vote, especially the youngsters, they will just move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Hey, you know I am not saying all of you will be crushed. I know fine well some of you are so strong minded you will never be beaten. But generally what I say is true. A No vote will devastate interest in the national team. From a national perspective, which is at the core of 'national' football, it is humiliating, on so many levels. People will not want be associated with it post No vote, especially the youngsters, they will just move on. What a load of tosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted December 12, 2013 Author Share Posted December 12, 2013 What a load of tosh. Stop sayin it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Am I the only one who has no idea what side of the debate this guy's on? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Stop sayin it then. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinkinFighter Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I don't agree with everything he says but a no vote will be extremely hard for me to take, we've got to be talking another 15-20 years at the earliest before another referendum IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted December 12, 2013 Author Share Posted December 12, 2013 I don't agree with everything he says but a no vote will be extremely hard for me to take, we've got to be talking another 15-20 years at the earliest before another referendum IMO. At least. I reckon a NO vote kills it for at least a generation. In my opinion I wouldnt expect to see another crack at it for maybe 50yrs. I also suspect that even if its a close run thing and NO prevails then Westminster will take steps to secure themselves against the possibility of a future referendum. Im not saying it will happen but I wouldnt be surprised if there as an attempt to "reinvigorate" the union. To "make it stronger" and the unionist parties would, quite rightly, take a NO as a mandate to do so. Possibly even going so far as to attempt a new Act of Union to replace the 1707 one. A new Act which would remove the grey areas of constitution. This would be in favour of Westminster as the final say on such matters and would in their words "provide clarity". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I don't agree with everything he says but a no vote will be extremely hard for me to take, we've got to be talking another 15-20 years at the earliest before another referendum IMO. If it doesn't happen next year you will never see it, that's a fact,the numbers won't stack up in 20 years unless some as yet undiscovered huge cash windfall presents itself to Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 If it doesn't happen next year you will never see it, that's a fact,the numbers won't stack up in 20 years unless some as yet undiscovered huge cash windfall presents itself to Scotland. I can't agree. The disilussionment with Westminster will only grow and as a result the democratic desire for independence will too. If not next year - 15-20 years down the line. Unless some major event strengthens the union but I can't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 At least. I reckon a NO vote kills it for at least a generation. In my opinion I wouldnt expect to see another crack at it for maybe 50yrs. I also suspect that even if its a close run thing and NO prevails then Westminster will take steps to secure themselves against the possibility of a future referendum. Im not saying it will happen but I wouldnt be surprised if there as an attempt to "reinvigorate" the union. To "make it stronger" and the unionist parties would, quite rightly, take a NO as a mandate to do so. Possibly even going so far as to attempt a new Act of Union to replace the 1707 one. A new Act which would remove the grey areas of constitution. This would be in favour of Westminster as the final say on such matters and would in their words "provide clarity". You must be joking? Its not going to go away. And the arguments are much stronger on the Yes side so its just a matter of persuading enough folk - and as things get worse for Scotland under the current system that job will become easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaldo Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I don't want things to have to get much worse before we vote for independence. People must know that the current system isn't going to improve. For god sake enough of this 15-20 years stuff. Let's just do it next year while we know the chance is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Bojangles Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 At least. I reckon a NO vote kills it for at least a generation. In my opinion I wouldnt expect to see another crack at it for maybe 50yrs. I also suspect that even if its a close run thing and NO prevails then Westminster will take steps to secure themselves against the possibility of a future referendum. Im not saying it will happen but I wouldnt be surprised if there as an attempt to "reinvigorate" the union. To "make it stronger" and the unionist parties would, quite rightly, take a NO as a mandate to do so. Possibly even going so far as to attempt a new Act of Union to replace the 1707 one. A new Act which would remove the grey areas of constitution. This would be in favour of Westminster as the final say on such matters and would in their words "provide clarity".Very similar to what happened to Quebec. Under the new legislation, I don't see how they can possibly achieve independence. I guess the could declare unilaterally if they reached the 50, but I'm not sure even a vote on whether puppies and kittens are cute would reach 66% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burma Posted December 12, 2013 Author Share Posted December 12, 2013 You must be joking? Its not going to go away. And the arguments are much stronger on the Yes side so its just a matter of persuading enough folk - and as things get worse for Scotland under the current system that job will become easier. Its just my gut feeling on it. I genuinely hope Im wrong but i do believe that a NO vote would induce a real sense of apathy and hopelessness amongst Independence advocates. I know I would be gutted and it would take a long time to re-energise an independence movement. I also believe we may see a more defined quasi-federalism which would be a move away from Independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I wonder if Westminster is using the Good Friday agreement as an unwritten precedent here, given that Scotland is quite similar to Ireland, except that the Irish Nationalists are more violent, and Ireland is more religion driven. What that agreement said is that if a majority of members of the Northern Irish assembly were Nationalist, then a referendum would be granted. Now, we have a majority of Nationalist MSPs and Westminster has allowed us to have a referendum. Now that states that if a referendum is organised and the people opt to remain in the UK, there won't be another referendum for 7 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McB Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I don't agree with everything he says but a no vote will be extremely hard for me to take, we've got to be talking another 15-20 years at the earliest before another referendum IMO. Minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McB Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 I don't want things to have to get much worse before we vote for independence. People must know that the current system isn't going to improve. For god sake enough of this 15-20 years stuff. Let's just do it next year while we know the chance is there. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Greetin' IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McB Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Aye no bother. My sense of Scottish identity isn't going to diminish just because a lot of people are daft enough to vote no. Why support England or Wales then ? By your logic, they don't represent a real country either. Love the pish statement about those who vote no are daft. Toys, pram etc. ROFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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