Mr Bairn Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Ad Lib can't separate the question of "who makes our decisions", which is what this vote is about, from "what decisions will the SNP/Labour/Tories make" which is NOT the question facing people. In fairness most people can't separate the issues either which is why everyone seems to be getting tied in knots about so called uncertainty. This vote is about who makes the decisions affecting us. That's it. No uncertainty. It'll either be Holyrood or Westminster. Exactly how can that be made any clearer? We're not voting on EU membership, which currency we'll use, removing trident or the myriad of other bizarre things people want to get bogged down over. In 2016 we'll have an election at which point we WILL be voting for those things. It is astonishing that people are struggling with this concept. Maybe some people trust Westminster more to deliver their preferences on these issues. Crazily enough not everybody wants to scrap trident and be a small country in the EU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Maybe some people trust Westminster more to deliver their preferences on these issues. Crazily enough not everybody wants to scrap trident and be a small country in the EU. If the question on the ballot paper was: 'Do you trust Westminster to deliver on the most important issues of the day?' then the result would be a resounding No. If No manages to sneak this (as the polls suggest) then it will be down to the fear and confusion that's been created by Better Together. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 If the question on the ballot paper was: 'Do you trust Westminster to deliver on the most important issues of the day?' then the result would be a resounding No. If No manages to sneak this (as the polls suggest) then it will be down to the fear and confusion that's been created by Better Together. And if the question was the same, but with the Scottish government, it would also be a no. People don't trust politicians full stop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 And if the question was the same, but with the Scottish government, it would also be a no. People don't trust politicians full stop. I believe there is a big difference in the public perception in relation to Westminster and Holyrood. And this is one of the reasons why so many people are going to vote Yes in September. Westminster is despised, and rightly so in my opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I believe there is a big difference in the public perception in relation to Westminster and Holyrood. And this is one of the reasons why so many people are going to vote Yes in September. Westminster is despised, and rightly so in my opinion. No doubt about it, but I think there are certain issues that if you asked people on what government they trust more (specifically defence and foreign matters) a majority would choose the UK government. The two things that worry me most about a yes vote are that I expect a world war 3 in the not too distant future and that would be very hard to remain neutral on the doorstep of such a big player, and also that a lot of the Scottish left wing would be too PC to manage immigration appropriately (I know we need to bring a lot of inmigrants in, but won't this just lead to lots of home grown talent going on the dole?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 No doubt about it, but I think there are certain issues that if you asked people on what government they trust more (specifically defence and foreign matters) a majority would choose the UK government. The two things that worry me most about a yes vote are that I expect a world war 3 in the not too distant future and that would be very hard to remain neutral on the doorstep of such a big player, and also that a lot of the Scottish left wing would be too PC to manage immigration appropriately (I know we need to bring a lot of inmigrants in, but won't this just lead to lots of home grown talent going on the dole?) A world war? Scotland would definitely be more likely to avoid such a conflict - whereas the UK has a tendency to still consider itself a 'big player' in international affairs. If this war was something that Scotland should be involved in then I'm pretty confident there would be a coalition of nations that we would join. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 No doubt about it, but I think there are certain issues that if you asked people on what government they trust more (specifically defence and foreign matters) a majority would choose the UK government. The two things that worry me most about a yes vote are that I expect a world war 3 in the not too distant future and that would be very hard to remain neutral on the doorstep of such a big player, and also that a lot of the Scottish left wing would be too PC to manage immigration appropriately (I know we need to bring a lot of inmigrants in, but won't this just lead to lots of home grown talent going on the dole?) World war 3 wouldn't last long enough for anyone to pick sides, but that's ok because we'd all lose anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendan Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Maybe some people trust Westminster more to deliver their preferences on these issues. Crazily enough not everybody wants to scrap trident and be a small country in the EU. I think the point being made is that many people seem to think this is a vote about these issues, when really it is not. I know that in an independent Scotland I would have quite different views on many issues compared with other Yes supporters on here. I disagree with many of the policy ideas put forward by Yes Scotland and the SNP, but it doesn't stop me wanting a Scottish parliament to ultimately decide rather than Westminster. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 And if the question was the same, but with the Scottish government, it would also be a no. People don't trust politicians full stop. Your right insofar as I would never trust Scottish labour to ever do anything at Holyrood without asking westminsters permission first. SNP will never have to bend-over first, before they change anything. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendan Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) One of the most interesting aspects of an iScotland would be seeing what Scottish Labour, Lib Dems and the Conservatives did with the freedom to come up with their own policies. The fact they currently seem so repulsed by the idea speaks volumes of their lack of aspiration for the country. Edited July 16, 2014 by bendan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepundit Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 One of the most interesting aspects of an iScotland would be seeing what Scottish Labour, Lib Dems and the Conservatives did with the freedom to come up with their own policies. The fact they currently seem so repulsed by the idea speaks volumes of their lack of aspiration for the country. Not true. They simply believe that, whilst Scotland is perfectly capable of being independent, the country would be better off as part of the United Kingdom. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Not true. They simply believe that, whilst Scotland is perfectly capable of being independent, the country would be better off as part of the United Kingdom. They don't believe, they follow. Edited July 16, 2014 by ayrmad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaven Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 One of the most interesting aspects of an iScotland would be seeing what Scottish Labour, Lib Dems and the Conservatives did with the freedom to come up with their own policies. The fact they currently seem so repulsed by the idea speaks volumes of their lack of aspiration for the country. Yeah. When JoLo rants on and on about " pulling and sharing resources ", what she really means is that she will never have to make any of the big decisions as she will get told by someone at westminster who will make it for her. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Not true. They simply believe that, whilst Scotland is perfectly capable of being independent, the country would be better off as part of the United Kingdom. The line managers have no real responsibility for their branch of the UK party. They do as they are told. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Because there should have been a third option. I know blame lies on both sides for that. You're an absolute shitebag. Voters on both sides deserve hundreds of times the credit that you do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 You're an absolute shitebag. Voters on both sides deserve hundreds of times the credit that you do. What are you talking about? If he doesn't have a preference between the two options then why should he be forced to pick a side? It's no different to abstaining, if there was an option to abstain 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 What are you talking about? If he doesn't have a preference between the two options then why should he be forced to pick a side? It's no different to abstaining, if there was an option to abstain He's not being forced to pick a side. Despite this, he's choosing to ruin a ballot paper with a Yes/No question on it. Should Scotland be an Independent country or not? NEITHER!!! Weirdo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 If he doesn't have a preference between the two options then why should he be forced to pick a side? Nobody's forcing him to pick a side. People are rightly pointing out that the reason his (professed - in much the same way as Mr Bairn is a neutral and Ad Lib is a committed Yes voter obvs) preferred position is not on the ballot has absolutely nothing to do with the SNP or Yes Scotland and everything to do with Westminster deciding that they didn't want to devolve any more power to Scotland, ever. One side to blame. One. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 He SHOULD pick a side though. It's a bloody important issue and if you can't decide which you want, then at least say "I don't know" instead of coming up with bullshit excuses. At least then there's a reasoning behind it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Nobody's forcing him to pick a side. People are rightly pointing out that the reason his (professed - in much the same way as Mr Bairn is a neutral and Ad Lib is a committed Yes voter obvs) preferred position is not on the ballot has absolutely nothing to do with the SNP or Yes Scotland and everything to do with Westminster deciding that they didn't want to devolve any more power to Scotland, ever. One side to blame. One. I'm not a neutral. I want to vote No but couldn't go on defending the indefensible anymore. I'm a British patriot but I can't go on condemning Scots to foodbanks etc. Now I'm not saying Scotland won't have foodbanks, but I do know that the Tories don't have much of an appetite to remove them. I do really fucking hate wasters but hopefully future Scottish governments won't be too soft on benefit cheats. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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