Mr Bairn Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Correct, this is about what's best for Scotland not the UK.... Actually it's up to everyone what they vote on. I'd guess the majority of people will vote on what personally suits them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) I don't think they will change either way without effort and time, but I'm an optimist and I believe that we can achieve these things. Having them competing for media focus with issues like independence however puts them lower down the agenda. I hope that the big focus post-referendum will be on these things. way I see it is the best way for this to happen is for the UK to stay together and Ed to win the election next year. Others may think it is to have an independent Scotland, either way once the referendum is done I think it is then that we can focus on these issues. The referendum debate itself I dislike, think is destructing and has attracted some of the worst kinds of arguments and debates. People seem to take this debate so personally, and it's getting to the point that if someone in 'neutral' company (e.g. a work night out) mentions the way they are voting and you can almost feel the tension spread around the table. I've never experienced that with politics in the UK before. So this month's email from headquarters has told you to push the 'it's a distraction' line. For what it's worth, it hasn't lowered these things on the agenda - as if people could only concentrate on one thing at a time. In actual fact I think it's got more people talking about social issues on a much broader and deeper scale than at any point since the destruction of the left 30 odd years ago. It's actually got a lot of people from different backgrounds talking alternative solutions to longstanding social issues - it's got them researching, looking at how others deal with similar problems. Granted it's a wee bit different from the standard Labour approach, which is to take a focus group from the English home counties, ask them what they think and then do what the daily Mail tells them, but in my opinion - this debate has been by far a healthier approach to asking questions about how the coutnry is run and for who's benefit, than waiting for 'Ed' to finish his triangulating. Edited July 31, 2014 by renton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I was responding to actual points made. Yours. So far as I can see from your contribution thus far, your commitment to the Labour party outshines your commitment to Scotland. You care about left wing issues? Labour positioning themselves a millimetre to the left of the Tories does not make them a left wing party. Tell me - what do Labour in Westminster plan to do about foodbanks, child poverty, zero hours contracts, the wealth gap in Britain, Work Capabality Assessments or Trident? I'm committed to the Labour Party because I'm committed to the people of the UK and I think Labour victories are the best thing for the country. That doesn't really make any difference to the point I was making though, which isn't anything to do with Labour but to do with my belief that the independence referendum is distracting from the things I personally think matter more. Labour are the only party in Westminster to have a track record of removing children from poverty and have consistent policies to help those who need it, such as introducing the minimum wage. Labour are the party who want to look into the impact zero hour contracts have and on the local level it is Labour activists making a fuss and attempting to get companies and groups to stop using them and are the only one of the three major parties committed to ending the bedroom tax. But none of this is in any way relevant to the point I was making, that the referendum is a distraction from these things and I personally wish there was more of a focus on these issues rather than on he referendum. What has Trident got to do with anything? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Correct, this is about what's best for Scotland not the UK.... It's about whatever the individual voting wants it to be about. If your only concern when voting is Scotland, that's fine, it's your vote to do with as you please and you can base it on whatever concerns you have. My concern is not only Scotland but the impact it will have on the rest of the UK, that's my vote and that's how I'm choosing to use it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 It's about whatever the individual voting wants it to be about. If your only concern when voting is Scotland, that's fine, it's your vote to do with as you please and you can base it on whatever concerns you have. My concern is not only Scotland but the impact it will have on the rest of the UK, that's my vote and that's how I'm choosing to use it. Aye like I said let's just keep things shite so the rest of the UK isn't affected, fire on with your NO vote lad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew1903 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) I'm committed to the Labour Party because I'm committed to the people of the UK and I think Labour victories are the best thing for the country. That doesn't really make any difference to the point I was making though, which isn't anything to do with Labour but to do with my belief that the independence referendum is distracting from the things I personally think matter more. Labour are the only party in Westminster to have a track record of removing children from poverty and have consistent policies to help those who need it, such as introducing the minimum wage. Labour are the party who want to look into the impact zero hour contracts have and on the local level it is Labour activists making a fuss and attempting to get companies and groups to stop using them and are the only one of the three major parties committed to ending the bedroom tax. But none of this is in any way relevant to the point I was making, that the referendum is a distraction from these things and I personally wish there was more of a focus on these issues rather than on he referendum. What has Trident got to do with anything? Where evidence is there of that? I'd say getting rid of the majority of grammar schools was the worst thing that has happened to poor children under any government. Edited July 31, 2014 by andrew1903 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I don't think they will change either way without effort and time, but I'm an optimist and I believe that we can achieve these things. Having them competing for media focus with issues like independence however puts them lower down the agenda. I hope that the big focus post-referendum will be on these things. way I see it is the best way for this to happen is for the UK to stay together and Ed to win the election next year. Others may think it is to have an independent Scotland, either way once the referendum is done I think it is then that we can focus on these issues. The referendum debate itself I dislike, think is destructing and has attracted some of the worst kinds of arguments and debates. People seem to take this debate so personally, and it's getting to the point that if someone in 'neutral' company (e.g. a work night out) mentions the way they are voting and you can almost feel the tension spread around the table. I've never experienced that with politics in the UK before. Sorry but the vote no, vote labour line isn't enough. Labour had more than enough time while in power to address these issues, they failed. They're an embarrassment who only really seem to care about the party above everything else, since they lost power in Holyrood back in 2007 they have been shown up as small minded and bitter. I'd rather not be in a situation where the only real choices at UK government level is between the Tories and Labour, It's almost unbelievable the amount of expenses fiddlers within Labour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I'm committed to the Labour Party because I'm committed to the people of the UK and I think Labour victories are the best thing for the country. That doesn't really make any difference to the point I was making though, which isn't anything to do with Labour but to do with my belief that the independence referendum is distracting from the things I personally think matter more. Labour are the only party in Westminster to have a track record of removing children from poverty and have consistent policies to help those who need it, such as introducing the minimum wage. Labour are the party who want to look into the impact zero hour contracts have and on the local level it is Labour activists making a fuss and attempting to get companies and groups to stop using them and are the only one of the three major parties committed to ending the bedroom tax. But none of this is in any way relevant to the point I was making, that the referendum is a distraction from these things and I personally wish there was more of a focus on these issues rather than on he referendum. What has Trident got to do with anything? I notice that you are 24 years old. Reading your posts reminds me of what I probably felt like in the mid 90s (I'n only 33 now but still) - full of a naïve optimism of what can be achieved with a Labour election victory. If you are a fairly open-minded individual, and I have no reason to suspect you're not, I reckon you'll be an independence supporter the next time it comes around (in the event of a No vote obviously). Westminster is dead. It cannot be saved. Every time a new crop of MPs (some of which are good guys, some not so much) gets elected, they get sucked into the all-powerful party systems. This is our change to start again. And we might well f**k it up, but it would be a chance to build something better. And this may well influence the other ordinary folk in the rUK as they can see a different approach and make demands of their own representatives. A shining beacon (if you don't mind a bit of hyperbole). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Aye like I said let's just keep things shite so the rest of the UK isn't affected, fire on with your NO vote lad. I don't think everything will be shite, nor am I basing my vote on the rest of the UK, I'm basing it on the UK as a whole. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I'm committed to the Labour Party because I'm committed to the people of the UK You're delusional if you believe that. They enjoy they gravy train just as much as the Tories http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/news/home-news/jim-murphy-named-among-27-mps-in-new-expenses-row.1350640850 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I'm committed to the Labour Party because I'm committed to the people of the UK and I think Labour victories are the best thing for the country. That doesn't really make any difference to the point I was making though, which isn't anything to do with Labour but to do with my belief that the independence referendum is distracting from the things I personally think matter more. Labour are the only party in Westminster to have a track record of removing children from poverty and have consistent policies to help those who need it, such as introducing the minimum wage. Labour are the party who want to look into the impact zero hour contracts have and on the local level it is Labour activists making a fuss and attempting to get companies and groups to stop using them and are the only one of the three major parties committed to ending the bedroom tax. But none of this is in any way relevant to the point I was making, that the referendum is a distraction from these things and I personally wish there was more of a focus on these issues rather than on he referendum. What has Trident got to do with anything? If you are committed to the people of the UK does that mean there could be an occasion where you would be in favour of a decision where Scotland could lose out to another part of the UK? Say for instance Glasgow lost out to Liverpool on a decision made by the Westminster Labour government. You would be okay with that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 If you are committed to the people of the UK does that mean there could be an occasion where you would be in favour of a decision where Scotland could lose out to another part of the UK? Say for instance Glasgow lost out to Liverpool on a decision made by the Westminster Labour government. You would be okay with that? If you live in, say, Aberdeen, then why would you care? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 So because England votes for right wing parties such as the Tories and Labour we've got to be dragged down with them for the greater good? Fantastic news. Labour supporters are a joke. Scotland also votes for "right wing parties such as the Tories and Labour" - well, it votes for one of them anyway 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 If you live in, say, Aberdeen, then why would you care? Maybe you wouldn't. But what if Aberdeen lost out to Liverpool in the same scenario? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Maybe you wouldn't. But what if Aberdeen lost out to Liverpool in the same scenario? Then you might be a bit upset, but someone in Glasgow wouldn't be upset. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Then you might be a bit upset, but someone in Glasgow wouldn't be upset. But if we had an independent Scotland nobody in either Glasgow or Aberdeen would miss out to Liverpool. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 But if we had an independent Scotland nobody in either Glasgow or Aberdeen would miss out to Liverpool. They might lose out to each other, though. Also you haven't specified what this "project" is but it might not necessarily be the type of project that is feasible in a small country. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Read somewhere today that 83% of Charity Sector workers intend to vote Yes. Can't find link at the moment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Read somewhere today that 83% of Charity Sector workers intend to vote Yes. Can't find link at the moment. Wouldn't be able to put an estimate percentage on it, but this certainly supports my experience. It actually pisses me off a bit that the third sector usually stays professional in its political neutrality, whilst the private sector and organisations like Unions get their cock out supporting No. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I'm committed to the Labour Party because I'm committed to the people of the UK and I think Labour victories are the best thing for the country. That doesn't really make any difference to the point I was making though, which isn't anything to do with Labour but to do with my belief that the independence referendum is distracting from the things I personally think matter more. Labour are the only party in Westminster to have a track record of removing children from poverty and have consistent policies to help those who need it, such as introducing the minimum wage. Labour are the party who want to look into the impact zero hour contracts have and on the local level it is Labour activists making a fuss and attempting to get companies and groups to stop using them and are the only one of the three major parties committed to ending the bedroom tax. But none of this is in any way relevant to the point I was making, that the referendum is a distraction from these things and I personally wish there was more of a focus on these issues rather than on he referendum. What has Trident got to do with anything? If you're honest with yourself, this whole "independence is a distraction from the real issues" schtick is one massive amount of pish. We're not 4. We're capable of considering more than one thing at the same time. On the contrary, I believe the referendum debate has brought many issues to the fore, such as the things I mentioned and how utterly inept Westminster parties are at tackling them. Yeah, New Labour are great. Introduced and voted in favour of Workfare. Oversaw the privatisation of the HMRC property portfolio to a Bermudan company. Started privatising the education system with the opening of 200 privately operated Academies. Oversaw prison and air traffic privatisation. Oversaw a corporate outsourcing explosion whilst in office. Didn't invest in social housing. Good old Labour eh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.