Reynard Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Move? Mate I'm from Perthshire! I hold a membership to a equestrian centre but I've never been on a horse! So, while I welcome your comments remember where we both dwell. Moving on....From a right of centre point of view there's an absolute lack of thought that's went in to attacking the few on welfare. What's you serious proposals to make work pay given the enormous amount to money lost in housing stock, since the Thatcher years? Well, I was intrigued to find out where to. You seemed to be implying that the state itself was holding you back from fulfilling your true potential... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Move? Mate I'm from Perthshire! I hold a membership to a equestrian centre but I've never been on a horse! So, while I welcome your comments remember where we both dwell. Moving on....From a right of centre point of view there's an absolute lack of thought that's went in to attacking the few on welfare. What's you serious proposals to make work pay given the enormous amount to money lost in housing stock, since the Thatcher years? IDS has actually closely followed the model they use in Norway. I thought Norway was the shining light in welfarism according to some on the left? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamski Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I've just taken part in a poll for YouGov. Questions included: - how I voted in the last Westminster election. - how I voted in the last Holyrood election (constituency and regional). - how I would vote in the next election for each parliament - how I voted in the referendum - how I would vote if there was another referendum today Interested to see if there has been any shift in Yes since the referendum, and also the effects of it on the parliamentary elections. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Mints Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Latest odds make a Yes vote favourite for the next referendum 10/11 Yes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Mints Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 No is 5/6, ie favourite. No is 5/6. Hence why a Yes vote at 10/11 is the favourite 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 No is 5/6. Hence why a Yes vote at 10/11 is the favourite Oh my... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Latest odds make a Yes vote favourite for the next referendum 10/11 Yes. Unfortunately the question is now going to be be "do you agree that Scotland should remain part of the union". Not that there is ever going to be another referendum of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 We need a few of the pre-referendum conspiracy theorists to help us out here. That guy Ross maybe. He seems to have his fingers on the pulse of the bookmaking industry and their known use of schemey Dundee jaikies to derive odds from. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Fucking hell 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Unfortunately the question is now going to be be "do you agree that Scotland should remain part of the union". Not that there is ever going to be another referendum of course. Think we'll let the Electoral Commission determine if the question is acceptable or not. Referendum before 2020 is a dead cert in my most humble opnion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Think we'll let the Electoral Commission determine if the question is acceptable or not. Referendum before 2020 is a dead cert in my most humble opnion Apparently the electoral commission is a bad guy with the tinfoil natters. Your opinions on these sort of things tend to be driven by your emotions and not by anything resembling reality. Your performance through the last couple of years confirmed that. Totally detached from any sort of reality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Apparently the electoral commission is a bad guy with the tinfoil natters. Your opinions on these sort of things tend to be driven by your emotions and not by anything resembling reality. Your performance through the last couple of years confirmed that. Totally detached from any sort of reality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Think we'll let the Electoral Commission determine if the question is acceptable or not. I don't think you understand. Also, the EC don't determine whether the question is acceptable or not - they merely issue a recommendation. The SNP set the question the last time. The EC sent it back to them for reframing. They changed it, but they didn't have to. What Reynard is suggesting is that a future referendum would see the Union claim the "Yes" side of the equation, which would mean Westminster would have "Yes" as remainig in the union, as the SNP did with secession. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 He's right. You think the next SNP Holyrood manifesto will have a commitment to hold a referendum next parliament if elected. That's absolutely bonkers levels of insanity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Think we'll let the Electoral Commission determine if the question is acceptable or not. Referendum before 2020 is a dead cert in my most humble opnion Would there be any point though? The yes campaign would start with a higher percentage than last time, but the new 'political generation' wont be eligible to vote yet and the result would end up just being the same, with maybe a couple of percent swing either way. I can't see there being the same level of engagement on the Yes side the second time round if it's so close to the last one and the 'silent majority' will just stick the knife in again. I like your enthusiasm, but I think we just need to accept that we're going to be in the Union for the foreseeable future. Best to try and make it work as much as we can and, if it does comes round again in the future, make sure the economic case is stronger next time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I don't think you understand. Also, the EC don't determine whether the question is acceptable or not - they merely issue a recommendation. The SNP set the question the last time. The EC sent it back to them for reframing. They changed it, but they didn't have to. What Reynard is suggesting is that a future referendum would see the Union claim the "Yes" side of the equation, which would mean Westminster would have "Yes" as remainig in the union, as the SNP did with secession. Of course they didn't have to but all parties came to an agreement to abide by the EC recommendations. Same will apply next time and what Reynard suggested would be totally unacceptable. The Union side can't claim nothing, it will be the Scottish parliament that will take control of the referendum same as last time 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Would there be any point though? The yes campaign would start with a higher percentage than last time, but the new 'political generation' wont be eligible to vote yet and the result would end up just being the same, with maybe a couple of percent swing either way. I can't see there being the same level of engagement on the Yes side the second time round if it's so close to the last one and the 'silent majority' will just stick the knife in again. I like your enthusiasm, but I think we just need to accept that we're going to be in the Union for the foreseeable future. Best to try and make it work as much as we can and, if it does comes round again in the future, make sure the economic case is stronger next time. You seem to miss out the possibility of those who voted No on the more powers being delivered not getting what they expected. Another Tory led government at Westminster The UK leaving the EU All are factors that could trigger another referendum. Yes didn't lose by 20 or 30% , they were only 6 % off of victory which is quite achievable 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 You seem to miss out the possibility of those who voted No on the more powers being delivered not getting what they expected. Another Tory led government at Westminster The UK leaving the EU All are factors that could trigger another referendum. Yes didn't lose by 20 or 30% , they were only 6 % off of victory which is quite achievable Take your point on the powers, but I'm not sure that's a huge issue to a lot of people who voted no to be honest. I think the biggest issue was the economy and that argument wont be any better developed, nor will the currency issue which swayed so many. I don't see how a democratically elected Tory led government could possibly be seen as a trigger for another referendum. We voted to be part of the Union - we're all the same country and decide who runs us as a collective. If the Tories don't get enough seats, but they can form a coalition with another party which takes them over 50%, you can't really argue with that decision. The EU referendum will play out like the Scottish one IMO. The majority will vote to remain in the EU and again, I'm not sure the result a democratic process would trigger a referendum. I think you need to start looking forward rather than back to be honest. It might prove to be a golden chance missed, but we've just got to make the best of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Take your point on the powers, but I'm not sure that's a huge issue to a lot of people who voted no to be honest. I think the biggest issue was the economy and that argument wont be any better developed, nor will the currency issue which swayed so many. I don't see how a democratically elected Tory led government could possibly be seen as a trigger for another referendum. We voted to be part of the Union - we're all the same country and decide who runs us as a collective. If the Tories don't get enough seats, but they can form a coalition with another party which takes them over 50%, you can't really argue with that decision. The EU referendum will play out like the Scottish one IMO. The majority will vote to remain in the EU and again, I'm not sure the result a democratic process would trigger a referendum. I think you need to start looking forward rather than back to be honest. It might prove to be a golden chance missed, but we've just got to make the best of it. The reason I mentioned both the Tory government and the EU is because Scotland could get a government that is not just despised but the majority of the Scottish electorate didn't vote for. And we could have a situation where Scotland votes to remain in the EU but the rest of the UK doesn't and votes to leave. Both of these situations could trigger a referendum in my opinion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 The reason I mentioned both the Tory government and the EU is because Scotland could get a government that is not just despised but the majority of the Scottish electorate didn't vote for. And we could have a situation where Scotland votes to remain in the EU but the rest of the UK doesn't and votes to leave. Both of these situations could trigger a referendum in my opinion 1st part - definitely wont trigger a referendum. I think the Tories will get 2 or 3 seats in Scotland next time actually. 2nd part - 99% sure wont trigger a referendum either... not that I think we'll vote to leave the EU anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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