FlyerTon Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 The Labour stalwart has died at the age of 88. R.I.P. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26573929 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 RIP. Never liked him, far too left wing and I think he created divisions in the Labour movement at the one time we needed to be united, however he was clearly a passionate and dedicated man. He will be missed by many in the party and the larger Labour movement generally. His diaries are amongst the best political books I've ever read. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 You can't deny the guy's integrity - he was like night and day compared to the interchangeable used car salesmen that infest politics today, but his refusal to compromise did more harm than good and probably ended up contributing to the length of time of Th*****r was allowed in power. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Aye, OK. Benn's refusal to compromise was harmful, but Thatcher's "not for turning" bollox was a reason for admiration. What contributed to Thatcher's reign was an early manifestation of the greed and materialism endemic in today's society. Rest In Peace, Tony. A man of integrity, principle and honour. This country won't see his like again in a hurry - and the Labour Party certainly won't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRubberFist Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 It's not been a great week for left-wing stalwarts. A great and principled man - RIP. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Aww Ffs. Genuinely one of the good guys and one of the best orators I ever saw. Rip 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 He was excellent at fancy dress and looked very dashing in a bowler hat. RIP. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 RIP. Never liked him, far too left wing and I think he created divisions in the Labour movement at the one time we needed to be united, however he was clearly a passionate and dedicated man. He will be missed by many in the party and the larger Labour movement generally. His diaries are amongst the best political books I've ever read. People like Benn and Skinner don't do party unity, if Labour had another few hundred that didn't bow to pressure we wouldn't be having a referendum, thank fcuk there aren't many with principles and a backbone. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 People like Benn and Skinner don't do party unity, if Labour had another few hundred that didn't bow to pressure we wouldn't be having a referendum, thank fcuk there aren't many with principles and a backbone. Difference between Benn and Skinner is Benn had real influence. He was a large part of the reason Labour were unelectable in the eighties, probably the time in Labour's history that we really needed to be seen as a valid party most. When people refer to Labour figures as 'principled' they usually mean 'on the left of the party', that isn't what Labour need. A left-wing Labour Party will not win elections in this country. It's all very well and good to sit happily in opposition dreaming up a fantastic socialist utopia, but Blair and Brown managed something people like Benn and Denis Skinner will never manage: actual positive change. The good that Labour have managed over the last few decades has come through pragmatism, not principles. Personally I'd rather do good than feel good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Difference between Benn and Skinner is Benn had real influence. He was a large part of the reason Labour were unelectable in the eighties, probably the time in Labour's history that we really needed to be seen as a valid party most. They were unelectable because a few of their policies were shite. When people refer to Labour figures as 'principled' they usually mean 'on the left of the party', that isn't what Labour need. A left-wing Labour Party will not win elections in this country. It's all very well and good to sit happily in opposition dreaming up a fantastic socialist utopia, but Blair and Brown managed something people like Benn and Denis Skinner will never manage: actual positive change. The good that Labour have managed over the last few decades has come through pragmatism, not principles. Blair and Brown done for more damage to the Labour party than 100 Benn's and Skinners ever could. Personally I'd rather do good than feel good. And what does that have to do with Brown and Blair? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Difference between Benn and Skinner is Benn had real influence. He was a large part of the reason Labour were unelectable in the eighties, probably the time in Labour's history that we really needed to be seen as a valid party most. They were unelectable because a few of their policies were shite. When people refer to Labour figures as 'principled' they usually mean 'on the left of the party', that isn't what Labour need. A left-wing Labour Party will not win elections in this country. It's all very well and good to sit happily in opposition dreaming up a fantastic socialist utopia, but Blair and Brown managed something people like Benn and Denis Skinner will never manage: actual positive change. The good that Labour have managed over the last few decades has come through pragmatism, not principles. Blair and Brown done for more damage to the Labour party than 100 Benn's and Skinners ever could. Personally I'd rather do good than feel good. And what does that have to do with Brown and Blair? Their policies were shite because they were too left-wing. Blair and Brown revitalised the party, made us electable and brought us to government. They saved the party. Everything. Blair and Brown got on with the job and did good, rather than the Skinners in the party who are happy to sit in opposition feeling good about themselves. -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Their policies were shite because they were too left-wing. Blair and Brown revitalised the party, made us electable and brought us to government. They saved the party. Everything. Blair and Brown got on with the job and did good, rather than the Skinners in the party who are happy to sit in opposition feeling good about themselves. Brown and Blair were a disaster, it's not even up for discussion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomp my root Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Brown and Blair were a disaster, it's not even up for discussion. Thread fascist post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Thread fascist post. Nah, you can fire up all their great achievements if you like. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) Their policies were shite because they were too left-wing. Blair and Brown revitalised the party, made us electable and brought us to government. They saved the party. Everything. Blair and Brown got on with the job and did good, rather than the Skinners in the party who are happy to sit in opposition feeling good about themselves. They saved the party by destroying it. Tell me, what is the point - the actual fucking point - of the Labour party winning an election if they are just going to ape the neoliberal concensus, if they are simply not going to enact even the merest hint of democratic socialism? Being electable is a bad joke if you don't have policies. Edited March 14, 2014 by renton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 They saved the party by destroying it. Tell me, what is the point - the actual fucking point - of the Labour party winning an election if they are just going to ape the neoliberal concensus, if they are simply not going to enact even the merest hint of democratic socialism? Being electable is a bad joke if you don't have policies. They won power. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 He had simple solutions for all the world's problems, but all he managed to do when he had the power to actually change things was to blow billions on Concorde. Great at telling other people where they were going wrong though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 He left parliament in 2001, after blair's first term "to spend more time on politics". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eindhovendee Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Their policies were shite because they were too left-wing. Blair and Brown revitalised the party, made us electable and brought us to government. They saved the party. Everything. Blair and Brown got on with the job and did good, rather than the Skinners in the party who are happy to sit in opposition feeling good about themselves. I really hate politics and politicians because they are mostly complete c***s but I've got to say the above post is one of the reasons I hate them so much. "Revitalising the party and making us electable"? In other words turning the Labour Party into something completely different than what it had stood for? "Blair and Brown did good"! f**k me. I liked Tony Benn, you knew what you were getting, what he stood for, and rightly or wrongly he argued his case passionately. Quote from the Huff Post. "Everyone could be a target, from the civil service, to the Tories, from Marx, to Jesus, and often US Presidents. Margaret Thatcher was his great adversary, but a woman he admired for her convictions, saying, "She believes in something, it is an old fashioned idea". Wonder if he thought that about the boys that did good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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