Cliche Guevara Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Why not play 3 or 4 fans and see what happens? Forrest is 16, has had a decent run of games and has scored 10 goals. That's success and the rest of his career is up to him now. Problem is people like you actually do young players a dis-service by desperately wanting them to become a success overnight. It's a long journey and most won't make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Why not play 3 or 4 fans and see what happens? Some wouldn't be any worse. Forrest is 16, has had a decent run of games and has scored 10 goals. That's success and the rest of his career is up to him now. Scoring goals for Ayr isn't success, fortunately he has his own brother to aim at. Problem is people like you actually do young players a dis-service by desperately wanting them to become a success overnight. It's a long journey and most won't make it. The problem is that Ayr are just playing at it with the kids, it doesn't matter what the academy produces if the 1st team manager is a clown searching for a plan. And I think you'll find I'm the exact opposite of someone looking for youngsters to be overnight successes,you on the other hand can't see past what the result of the next game will be, probably one of the gubs that thinks it's acceptable to berate youngsters. I just hope the pieman doesn't lose the pride he felt last week when his boy signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted June 16, 2014 Author Share Posted June 16, 2014 Do you watch the youths often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Do you watch the youths often? Why would I need to watch them often? The coaches that watch them every day think that 3 or 4 are ready, we'll never know if they're correct if we don't play them as youth football isn't the same as senior football. The teams that have been forced to play youths appear to show that there are more players ready to play at senior level than the managers that are left to there own devices think there are. Someone can look like a worldbeater in youth football and bomb when stepped up and an apparent dud can blossom when stepped up, you simply don't know until they're given their opportunity, personally I'd prefer watching a few youngsters test themselves than hand contracts to useless cnuts like McGowan, it'snot a contest in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliche Guevara Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Yeah we know you'd rather do that, so why not just go and watch the u19s then. I don't actually think there are any teams who have been forced to play young players - some clubs just have some decent ones that can contribute to the side although youngsters are notoriously inconsistent. To be honest you're all over the place on this issue, and I just think you've developed some sort of obsession. It's all you've gone on about for about four years. The idea that we'd have a better team if we fired in half a dozen teenagers season after season is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Armour Appreciation Society Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 The idea that we'd have a better team if we fired in half a dozen teenagers season after season is laughable. Don't think we would have a better team. We might have a team that is affordable, a set of players who might hang about longer than 12 months, and a 'pathway' to first team football which might attract more Alan Forrest's. Last year simply should have seen more opportunities for Longridge, Shankland and McArthur when an opening appeared for their position, rather than the 'obsession' for playing 'tried and trusted', which IMO failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliche Guevara Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 You mean cult-hero Longridge who was just been freed? No thanks. There is no reason why sixteen and seventeen year-olds should be looking for first-team football. It'll happen when the players are ready or they might never be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Yeah we know you'd rather do that, so why not just go and watch the u19s then. I don't watch the 19's but I do believe that more importance should be placed on producing them for the 1st team. I don't actually think there are any teams who have been forced to play young players - some clubs just have some decent ones that can contribute to the side although youngsters are notoriously inconsistent. Hearts and Falkirk spring to mind as well as numerous clubs being forced to place a higher importance on their kids. To be honest you're all over the place on this issue, I'm consistent on this issue, you might be happy going to watch shite journeymen not giving a fcuk, I and many others are not. and I just think you've developed some sort of obsession. It's called mid to long term planning, something sadly lacking for Ayr for an awful long while. It's all you've gone on about for about four years. The idea that we'd have a better team if we fired in half a dozen teenagers season after season is laughable. You sound like Marko, Tiffoney was shite compared to his big pal was his retort, his pal was done, fcuked, shite, Tiffoney was exciting and up and coming,that's what's wrong at our club, we can't see past today, if it doesn't change sharpish we'll be driving past a nice wee cul de sac shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
young buck Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I spoke to young Forrest when he got injured at the start of the season. I asked him when he would be back because we needed him. He said he just wanted back fit so he could put himself in contention. He had absolutely no expectation of being a first teamer. I thought this was really level headed of the wee man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I spoke to young Forrest when he got injured at the start of the season. I asked him when he would be back because we needed him. He said he just wanted back fit so he could put himself in contention. He had absolutely no expectation of being a first teamer. I thought this was really level headed of the wee man And I hope he keeps it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliche Guevara Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Why is producing u19s so important when it's proven time and again it's next to impossible. Falkirk haven't been forced to play youngsters, don't know why anyone would think they were. Hearts haven't uncovered anyone they didn't already know about and, by the way, got relegated. There is no evidence you get any more effort from young guys having too much too soon. I want to see as good an Ayr Utd team as possible. We have no responsibility towards individual young players and I have no interest in watching someone hopelessly out of their depth just because they are a teenager - what is that all about by the way? Tiffoney left because he thought he could do better, and was a well-established player so I don't know what point you're making there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Why is producing u19s so important when it's proven time and again it's next to impossible. Falkirk haven't been forced to play youngsters, don't know why anyone would think they were. Hearts haven't uncovered anyone they didn't already know about and, by the way, got relegated. There is no evidence you get any more effort from young guys having too much too soon. I want to see as good an Ayr Utd team as possible. We have no responsibility towards individual young players and I have no interest in watching someone hopelessly out of their depth just because they are a teenager - what is that all about by the way? Tiffoney left because he thought he could do better, and was a well-established player so I don't know what point you're making there. Where have you been hiding, Falkirk were forced to play kids under Elvis and the Hearts kids may well have got relegated but they were looking decent by the end of the season. Tiffonry re-restablished himself after Marko played his done pal at RB for a spell. You're bumping your gums without any facts to back you up, surprise surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheldonCooper Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Where have you been hiding, Falkirk were forced to play kids under Elvis and the Hearts kids may well have got relegated but they were looking decent by the end of the season. Tiffonry re-restablished himself after Marko played his done pal at RB for a spell. You're bumping your gums without any facts to back you up, surprise surprise. What done pal? Hunter and McAusland played there for most of the season. Tiffoney would have been first choice but he thought he was better than Ayr. I think it is you who is bumping the gums! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliche Guevara Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Where have you been hiding, Falkirk were forced to play kids under Elvis and the Hearts kids may well have got relegated but they were looking decent by the end of the season. Tiffonry re-restablished himself after Marko played his done pal at RB for a spell. You're bumping your gums without any facts to back you up, surprise surprise. How were Falkirk forced to play youngsters exactly? And did you miss Farid, Lyle Taylor, Higginbotham, Loy, McGovern, Dods, Millar etc etc Your Tiffoney point is just nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnethead Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 You know, it's pointless debating this, we have youngsters that seem to be going somewhere and then they hit a wall e.g. Crawford. There is a problem with the coaching at Somerset, they don't seem able to put the finishing touches to the youths to allow them to develop into the first team squad. The youngsters are in full time training and seem to be able to hold their own against other clubs youths, so what happens to them after that ? Ayr are under pressure to deliver on the field and the manager, whoever it may be, would be reluctant to risk playing youngsters on the off chance they made an arse of it (Longridge v Airdrie for example) and who could blame them. However, youngsters performances in comparison say to the contribution made by Junior Mendes a few seasons ago would've been more preferable. The thing is, coaches with more knowledge than Roberts AND Reid before him were of the opinion that there were a number of youths ready to step up, they were ignored and if I owned the club I would be questioning this. It's all very well two posters on a forum debating the issue but at the end of the day none of you would have the inside knowledge of how good or bad these kids are, the coaches who work with them do and I'd be more inclined to listen to their opinion. For me, the academy is a wasted resource, we should have players stepping up each year from it but like everything we turn our hands too, it's a disaster. It's been said before by many but the club needs reorganised from top to bottom, it needs to have a plan, the smart objectives and targets to achieve in the short, mid and long term. Until there is a plan the club is going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliche Guevara Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Not sure about your point on youths being able to step up previously. Who were the coaches who felt this? Who were the players? Where are they now? Ally Woodburn was given a fair crack at it. Say no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty_Boy Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 What done pal? Hunter and McAusland played there for most of the season. Tiffoney would have been first choice but he thought he was better than Ayr. I think it is you who is bumping the gums! Jim Lauchlan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliche Guevara Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 That was Reid two seasons previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 That was Reid two seasons previously. I apologise, I was conflating Marko's opinion of the players with Reids time in management, the actual point still stands, over the hill players and shite players shouldn't hinder the development of youngsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted June 16, 2014 Author Share Posted June 16, 2014 We actually did what ayrmad is suggesting in 2003/4 we won 6 games in all competitions and got relegated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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