FAO No Voters

[Tryfield]

I admire your honesty. Not in that post, but in the fact that in your own profile you describe yourself as a fuckwit. Clearly you know yourself very well.

My honesty is....I don't give a shit.

How many threads have you started on this subject? On this one board?

Quite a feckin few. It's your blood pressure pal, you are just ripe for exploiting by politicians. Mug.

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

I have found the English to be one of the most casually racist countries I have ever visited, and the people when abroad equally so. This is clearly subjective, but I find being called Jock or Sweaty Sock by someone I don't know (or have just met) to be a very poor form of "banter". If you were to swap Jock with Paki, Chink or N**ger the complexion of this "banter" would be considerably different.

^ There speaks someone who hasn't been to many countries.

[Casual Bystander]

^ There speaks someone who hasn't been to many countries.

Making assumptions without any basis of fact does you no justice. As you state your location as Essex are you seriously telling me that you don't think casual racism isn't rife down your neck of the woods? Whether it offends you is a different matter of course.

Now I should point out that I am talking casual racism here, not blatant or aggressive racism. I genuinely believe a lot of English think they are merely indulging in friendly banter and are ignorant that it's actually offensive. The problem is it is. Whether it's having a go at the French, the Germans or the Scots it's rarely received the way it is intended. I have discussed this on many occasions and many people seem surprised that I am offended by being called Jock or similar nicknames, or that using stereotypes that we are tight or have ginger hair or wear kilts.

[Bookies Love Me]

Making assumptions without any basis of fact does you no justice. As you state your location as Essex are you seriously telling me that you don't think casual racism isn't rife down your neck of the woods? Whether it offends you is a different matter of course.

Now I should point out that I am talking casual racism here, not blatant or aggressive racism. I genuinely believe a lot of English think they are merely indulging in friendly banter and are ignorant that it's actually offensive. The problem is it is. Whether it's having a go at the French, the Germans or the Scots it's rarely received the way it is intended. I have discussed this on many occasions and many people seem surprised that I am offended by being called Jock or similar nicknames, or that using stereotypes that we are tight or have ginger hair or wear kilts.

So you've never used Scouse, Geordie, Janner, Yorkie or Brum when speaking to/describing English Regional inhabitants?

Wear kilts? Not been to many weddings and International Football/Rugby matches?

Wore a kilt once to pacify relatives at a wedding, looked really smart in it, never again! From Central Scotland not and never will be my "National Dress".

[Confidemus]

I recommend deleting this before Confi sees it - it might just tip the lad over the edge.

Too late

[Blaven]

So you've never used Scouse, Geordie, Janner, Yorkie or Brum when speaking to/describing English Regional inhabitants?

Wear kilts? Not been to many weddings and International Football/Rugby matches?

Wore a kilt once to pacify relatives at a wedding, looked really smart in it, never again! From Central Scotland not and never will be my "National Dress".

Have you ever at any point in your life said to someone , ye awe right Scouse, ye awe right Geordie, ye awe right Janner (never heard that before)?

Naw because Jocks don't do that.

Kilts are here to stay.

Are you more of a trackie for national dress kind o guy?

[strichener]

No I haven't

in 2010 Scotland returned 41 Labour MPs, 11 Liberal Democrats, 5 SNP and 1 Tory.

If you take them away from the overall UK election turnout then you have the Tories now on 306 (instead of 307) Labour on 217 (Instead of 258), Lib dems on 46 (57) others on 14 (20)

The Conservatives would therefore have an outright majority of 29 seats. At present they form a coalition for a majority with the Lib Dems as the Scottish vote prevents them having an outright majority.

Anything else you want me to prove you wrong with?

Yes - the ability to raise income tax by 3p. This lapsed in 2007 when the SG refused to pay HMRC £7m.

[Casual Bystander]

So you've never used Scouse, Geordie, Janner, Yorkie or Brum when speaking to/describing English Regional inhabitants?

As a replacement for their actual name, and when I don't know them? No, I can't say I have. Do you feel you need to insult people the minute you meet them?

Wear kilts? Not been to many weddings and International Football/Rugby matches?

Are you intentionally being obtuse. Of course Scots wear kilts, the point is that they are not permanent attire. Never, for example, upon meeting someone from England, have my first words been, "oi, oi, where's your morris dancing outfit? Give us a dance!"

[Hedgecutter]

So you've never used Scouse, Geordie, Janner, Yorkie or Brum when speaking to/describing English Regional inhabitants?

I've only ever heard of Scouser, Geordie and Brummie, words which the people of Liverpool, Newcastle and Birmingham use to describe themselves. Hardly derogatory.

Jock on the other hand...

They would have to see themselves more as British than Scottish (like H_B says - we are but a region, and not a country).

The same HB that views Scotland as being on a level par as Yorkshire?

I have found the English to be one of the most casually racist countries I have ever visited, and the people when abroad equally so. This is clearly subjective, but I find being called Jock or Sweaty Sock by someone I don't know (or have just met) to be a very poor form of "banter". If you were to swap Jock with Paki, Chink or N**ger the complexion of this "banter" would be considerably different.

Certainly from my experiences, I would agree. I got a pretty hard time when car sharing from three guys who had recently moved up from Down South knowing nothing about Scotland before hand other than that Aberdeen had some good oil jobs there. The lack of basic knowledge was incredible with one guy in particular.

[Blaven]

Without looking it up, who can tell me what a " Janner " is?

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

Making assumptions without any basis of fact does you no justice. As you state your location as Essex are you seriously telling me that you don't think casual racism isn't rife down your neck of the woods? Whether it offends you is a different matter of course.

Now I should point out that I am talking casual racism here, not blatant or aggressive racism. I genuinely believe a lot of English think they are merely indulging in friendly banter and are ignorant that it's actually offensive. The problem is it is. Whether it's having a go at the French, the Germans or the Scots it's rarely received the way it is intended. I have discussed this on many occasions and many people seem surprised that I am offended by being called Jock or similar nicknames, or that using stereotypes that we are tight or have ginger hair or wear kilts.

I don't think racism is particularly rife where I live no. And as someone who isn't white, I generally find any racism pretty offensive. You get ignorant morons anywhere, but I consider myself pretty fortunate to have grown up here in terms of the attitudes of the people.

In terms of the places that I've been to where casual racism seems ingrained in the culture, visiting Marseille and Oslo and parts of Ireland was a bit of an eye-opener, and way worse than anything you'd see in Britain. In terms of places where I've had the most racism (both casual and actively nasty) directed at me personally, Edinburgh wins by an absolute country mile (which is quite impressive as I've never even lived there). However, I wouldn't use this as evidence that Scottish people are massively racist, because I don't think you are. It's a bit silly to tar a whole country like that. People are people, there are good ones and there are morons.

[Casual Bystander]

I don't think racism is particularly rife where I live no. And as someone who isn't white, I generally find any racism pretty offensive. You get ignorant morons anywhere, but I consider myself pretty fortunate to have grown up here in terms of the attitudes of the people.

I lived in Folkstone for about 5 months, which is not Essex but certainly a decent barometer, and I found casual racism a daily occurrence.

In terms of the places that I've been to where casual racism seems ingrained in the culture, visiting Marseille and Oslo and parts of Ireland was a bit of an eye-opener, and way worse than anything you'd see in Britain. In terms of places where I've had the most racism (both casual and actively nasty) directed at me personally, Edinburgh wins by an absolute country mile (which is quite impressive as I've never even lived there). However, I wouldn't use this as evidence that Scottish people are massively racist, because I don't think you are. It's a bit silly to tar a whole country like that. People are people, there are good ones and there are morons.

In terms of out and out racism, not casual, I was surprised by Italy. While not the most racist country I've visited, it was a bit of a shock to hear people openly say, "Digosto moulinyan", which if I was to give a direct translation would see me thrown off this board for blatant racism.

However it's the nature of ignorance that is at issue here. Living in England my experience is that many people seem to be completely unaware of the nature of their comments in the belief that, "hey, we're English, one of the nicest people around we would never insult you", yet the English sense of humour is deprecating which leads to a contradiction.

[chomp my root]

Have you ever at any point in your life said to someone , ye awe right Scouse, ye awe right Geordie, ye awe right Janner (never heard that before)?

Naw because Jocks don't do that.

Kilts are here to stay.

Are you more of a trackie for national dress kind o guy?

This Jock has and does. A Janner is someone from Plymouth by the way. I also refer to English people as 'Morris dancers' and take the piss out of their accents. I don't intend any offence and I wouldn't do it to a stranger but I'm not that sensitive that being called a Jock offends me. I've had the 'sweaty/sweaty sock', FRISP (fucking repulsive ignorant Scottish person/p***k) and the doubly offensive 'porridge wog' but I've seen just as much abuse of English people using the witty English cvnt/b*****d/p***k etc often in conjunction with a why don't you f**k off back to England so I struggle to see the mileage in going down the victim route with this.

[Confidemus]

This Jock has and does. A Janner is someone from Plymouth by the way. I also refer to English people as 'Morris dancers' and take the piss out of their accents. I don't intend any offence and I wouldn't do it to a stranger but I'm not that sensitive that being called a Jock offends me. I've had the 'sweaty/sweaty sock', FRISP (fucking repulsive ignorant Scottish person/p***k) and the doubly offensive 'porridge wog' but I've seen just as much abuse of English people using the witty English cvnt/b*****d/p***k etc often in conjunction with a why don't you f**k off back to England so I struggle to see the mileage in going down the victim route with this.

I'm entirely not surprised by this offering from you.

As someone, with an English mother who has spent essentially half my chilldhood in England and a good deal of my adult life there, there is a good deal of gentle ribbing on both sides. However, the nasty, vindictive stuff, from my experience tends to flow from south to north.

[Blaven]

This Jock has and does. A Janner is someone from Plymouth by the way. I also refer to English people as 'Morris dancers' and take the piss out of their accents. I don't intend any offence and I wouldn't do it to a stranger but I'm not that sensitive that being called a Jock offends me. I've had the 'sweaty/sweaty sock', FRISP (fucking repulsive ignorant Scottish person/p***k) and the doubly offensive 'porridge wog' but I've seen just as much abuse of English people using the witty English cvnt/b*****d/p***k etc often in conjunction with a why don't you f**k off back to England so I struggle to see the mileage in going down the victim route with this.

By victim route, you are referring to who?

What is a Janner and how did they get to that from Plymouth?

[chomp my root]

By victim route, you are referring to who?

What is a Janner and how did they get to that from Plymouth?

I'm not exactly sure why someone from Plymouth is a Janner but I'm not exactly sure why people from Newcastle are Geordies either.

By victim route I mean anyone who starts with the 'they' (whoever 'they' may be) called me names so that means I don't like them and feel justified in saying whatever I like about them in return.

[chomp my root]

I'm entirely not surprised by this offering from you.

As someone, with an English mother who has spent essentially half my chilldhood in England and a good deal of my adult life there, there is a good deal of gentle ribbing on both sides. However, the nasty, vindictive stuff, from my experience tends to flow from south to north.

In my experience its more the other way round. Where do we go with this ?

I'm someone who often gets accused of having an English accent, certainly up here, down south I tend to be taken for Scottish but in the past I've had the English cvnt stuff myself, admittedly not for a while. I find the English more casually patronising with their attitude but I think we're more 'sweary' offensive.

[Confidemus]

In my experience its more the other way round. Where do we go with this ?

I'm someone who often gets accused of having an English accent, certainly up here, down south I tend to be taken for Scottish but in the past I've had the English cvnt stuff myself, admittedly not for a while. I find the English more casually patronising with their attitude but I think we're more 'sweary' offensive.

Scottish people are more direct, that's for sure.

I'm talking about the tone and insinuation and I've found the stuff that's got real venom behind it is from English people to Scots. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[chomp my root]

I'm entirely not surprised by this offering from you.

As someone, with an English mother who has spent essentially half my chilldhood in England and a good deal of my adult life there, there is a good deal of gentle ribbing on both sides. However, the nasty, vindictive stuff, from my experience tends to flow from south to north.

Scottish people are more direct, that's for sure.

I'm talking about the tone and insinuation and I've found the stuff that's got real venom behind it is from English people to Scots. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I'm more than happy to agree to disagree on the matter, it comes down to personal viewpoints but that could be said about the whole independence debate yet there's plenty on here who argue over anything and everything.

Not sure about your "I'm entirely not surprised by this offering from you."

It does seem unnecessary and not very 'direct'.

[Confidemus]

I'm more than happy to agree to disagree on the matter, it comes down to personal viewpoints but that could be said about the whole independence debate yet there's plenty on here who argue over anything and everything.

Not sure about your "I'm entirely not surprised by this offering from you."

It does seem unnecessary and not very 'direct'.

The reason I said that is that I base it on some of your previous offerings.

You could argue that some aspects of the debate are personal viewpoints. There are, however some things that are set in stone. Some absolute facts

Such as:

The 400% rise in use of foodbanks, The highest use of foodbanks in the UK since World War 2. Over a million families depended on them last year.

Trident will cost £100 Billion to maintain and replace over the next 30 years.

The UK is the 4th most unequal country in the developed world and has the highest rich/ poor divide in Europe.

70% of those affected by bedroom tax cuts are disabled or have a disabled person in their family.

Austerity is punishing the poor for the crime of being poor,

These are all concrete facts and things we can address in an iScotland.