US Identity confusion

[Hillonearth]

Having that link to your ancestry is actually something that people in the African-American population are often quite envious of, as they don't have a more personal heritage they can celebrate.

It matters to people.

I got talking to an African-American guy one time I was in Virginia who heard my accent and identified it correctly, which is a bit of a rarity over there.

Turns out his surname was Mc-something-or-other - he identified strongly with Scotland and knew quite a lot, having read fairly extensively about it, which was a refreshing change considering your average American has a fairly nebulous grasp of anything outside their borders, especially over in "Yurrup".

Considering what region of the States we were in, and Scotland's part in its history which doesn't exactly cover us in glory, I had a sneaking suspicion how his family ended up with that name, but he seemed genuinely stoked to meet - in his words - another Scot.

[the snudge]

Id maybe say theyre more like american citizens rather than nationals. Unless of course you're native american.

[Ad Lib]

The real discrepancy, as usual, lies with the vacuum inside your skull. Nationality is chosen not assigned - this isn't the 1930s - and nationality (s) do not have to correspond with citizenship, or state/dynastic patriotism.

Tell the Nats in the Independence sub-forum.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

My dear departed Granny once told me

There are three types of people:

Scottish people

People who want to be Scottish

People with no ambition whatsoever

[tamthebam]

It was once explained to me by a Yank why the Americans tend to join societies e.g. the Rotarians and so on. It's because a lot of people tended to move about due to jobs e.g. from New York to L.A. A New Yorker would be unlikely to know anyone in LA but he could turn up at the local branch of, say, the Irish-American Association and soon make friends with a similar interest.

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

I got talking to an African-American guy one time I was in Virginia who heard my accent and identified it correctly, which is a bit of a rarity over there.

Turns out his surname was Mc-something-or-other - he identified strongly with Scotland and knew quite a lot, having read fairly extensively about it, which was a refreshing change considering your average American has a fairly nebulous grasp of anything outside their borders, especially over in "Yurrup".

Considering what region of the States we were in, and Scotland's part in its history which doesn't exactly cover us in glory, I had a sneaking suspicion how his family ended up with that name, but he seemed genuinely stoked to meet - in his words - another Scot.

That's an interesting one.

I'm half English, half Nigerian, and my experience of the States is that once they get their heads round a black British person (some people genuinely refused to believe that there are millions of non-white folk here), that African Americans were fascinated by the fact that black British people have a real sense of their roots. Communities here can be divided into Ghanaians, or Nigerians, or Jamaicans etc, rather than just being lumped into one big nebulous group as is the case there because of the legacy of slavery. They tended to be a bit jealous of that aspect.

Incidentally, I've found that the combination of dark skin and an English accent (which can be Hugh Grant-ified if needs be) is a real hit with the ladies of all communities across the USA, but it works particularly well in the south.

I'm breaking down barriers man

[TheCelt67]

I got talking to an African-American guy one time I was in Virginia who heard my accent and identified it correctly, which is a bit of a rarity over there.

Turns out his surname was Mc-something-or-other - he identified strongly with Scotland and knew quite a lot, having read fairly extensively about it, which was a refreshing change considering your average American has a fairly nebulous grasp of anything outside their borders, especially over in "Yurrup".

Considering what region of the States we were in, and Scotland's part in its history which doesn't exactly cover us in glory, I had a sneaking suspicion how his family ended up with that name, but he seemed genuinely stoked to meet - in his words - another Scot.

My old man was working in London during the 80's and there was a colleague of his who was from a Caribbean background, his name was Angus, and if my memory serves me, his surname was MacKenzie. Much like the fella you are speaking about, he also was very much clued up on Scottish history and it's culture. Like you say, there's probably no huge surprise as to how he came about such a surname.

Speaking of the accent, whenever I was in the States, most of the time when someone heard it, they would make some comment about me being Irish. Sitting at the Blackjack table one night in Vegas having a conversation with a guy who mistook me for being Irish, after I tell him I am Scottish, he then starts asking bit's a pieces about that, like do I have a "plaid"? Long story short I inform the guy I don't have a Clan tartan as my grandparents were Irish, and I have an Irish surname, which he replies, "so you do have an Irish accent after all". Guy seemed genuinely confused about the whole thing.

[Hillonearth]

That's an interesting one.

I'm half English, half Nigerian, and my experience of the States is that once they get their heads round a black British person (some people genuinely refused to believe that there are millions of non-white folk here), that African Americans were fascinated by the fact that black British people have a real sense of their roots. Communities here can be divided into Ghanaians, or Nigerians, or Jamaicans etc, rather than just being lumped into one big nebulous group as is the case there because of the legacy of slavery. They tended to be a bit jealous of that aspect.

Incidentally, I've found that the combination of dark skin and an English accent (which can be Hugh Grant-ified if needs be) is a real hit with the ladies of all communities across the USA, but it works particularly well in the south.

I'm breaking down barriers man

Very true regarding their ignorance of the mixed nature of the populations of other countries - a mate of mine was in New York when the Olympics in Athens were on. They tended to just show the events the Americans won because of the time delay, but a black British athlete won a couple of biggish events they couldn't get away with not showing - think it might have been Kelly Holmes - and he overheard a couple of guys watching it in a bar saying she must be a Canadian racing for Britain because "there ain't no blacks over in England, man..."

They also seem to think all English accents are posh. Came as a pleasant surprise to a guy I know from Stourbridge first time he went across.

[Hillonearth]

My old man was working in London during the 80's and there was a colleague of his who was from a Caribbean background, his name was Angus, and if my memory serves me, his surname was MacKenzie. Much like the fella you are speaking about, he also was very much clued up on Scottish history and it's culture. Like you say, there's probably no huge surprise as to how he came about such a surname.

Speaking of the accent, whenever I was in the States, most of the time when someone heard it, they would make some comment about me being Irish. Sitting at the Blackjack table one night in Vegas having a conversation with a guy who mistook me for being Irish, after I tell him I am Scottish, he then starts asking bit's a pieces about that, like do I have a "plaid"? Long story short I inform the guy I don't have a Clan tartan as my grandparents were Irish, and I have an Irish surname, which he replies, "so you do have an Irish accent after all". Guy seemed genuinely confused about the whole thing.

I've had my accent mistaken for all all sorts in the States - Irish, Australian, Kiwi, Scandinavian and so on.

My favourite was actually on the same trip I was talking about in the earlier post. I was in a shop talking with another Scottish guy when one of the ditzy assistant burds came over and said:

"I really like the language you're speaking. What is it?"

"Eh, English..."

"Oh, I thought it was French..."

Glaswegian Scottish. The language of love.

[TheCelt67]

I've had my accent mistaken for all all sorts in the States - Irish, Australian, Kiwi, Scandinavian and so on.

My favourite was actually on the same trip I was talking about in the earlier post. I was in a shop talking with another Scottish guy when one of the ditzy assistant burds came over and said:

"I really like the language you're speaking. What is it?"

"Eh, English..."

"Oh, I thought it was French..."

Glaswegian Scottish. The language of love.

I like Americans, but they do come away with some belters.

[Jacksgranda]

My old man was working in London during the 80's and there was a colleague of his who was from a Caribbean background, his name was Angus, and if my memory serves me, his surname was MacKenzie. Much like the fella you are speaking about, he also was very much clued up on Scottish history and it's culture. Like you say, there's probably no huge surprise as to how he came about such a surname.

Speaking of the accent, whenever I was in the States, most of the time when someone heard it, they would make some comment about me being Irish. Sitting at the Blackjack table one night in Vegas having a conversation with a guy who mistook me for being Irish, after I tell him I am Scottish, he then starts asking bit's a pieces about that, like do I have a "plaid"? Long story short I inform the guy I don't have a Clan tartan as my grandparents were Irish, and I have an Irish surname, which he replies, "so you do have an Irish accent after all". Guy seemed genuinely confused about the whole thing.

I knew 2 guys from the West Indies back in the 70s, they were called Charlie Thompson and Donald Robertson if I recall correctly.

[NotThePars]

Considering the USA is a nation founded almost completely on relatively recent immigration it's not really a surprise that many of them identify with these roots since their nation and the people who live there (Native Americans aside obviously) don't have the history of places in Europe.

[shiltrum]

Depends how big it is.

NEIGH bother ma man.

[Hedgecutter]

Considering the USA is a nation founded almost completely on relatively recent immigration it's not really a surprise that many of them identify with these roots since their nation and the people who live there (Native Americans aside obviously) don't have the history of places in Europe.

Nail on the head.

You see American tourists in places like Edinburgh, Prague etc and they're just blown away with the thought that they're looking at something which was built over 200 years ago. They love it and will find any reasonable reason they can to find an association with the place.

Side story: I was in a Hungarian restaurant where an American was jokingly giving the owner a hard time about why he came this far to be given American beer (it was in fact Budweiser Budvar - hopefully I don't have to explain the confusion). The owners response was "read the label, over 400 years of brewing tradition - where the f*** was America 400 years ago?!!". Oh how we all laughed.

[Hedgecutter]

I like Americans, but they do come away with some belters.

They're also great fun in that you can tell them anything about life in Scotland and 90% will totally buy it.

I once got let off for jaywalking there when I told the police officer that we don't have pedestrian crossings like they do as most junctions here are roundabouts so we have to cross main roads anywhere.

[Dr Koop]

If a dog is born in a stable does it make it a horse ?

Sophistry.

[Dr Koop]

Was talking to an American who claimed Scottish ancestry one time I was over there, who gave me the full tedious run-down of his genetic makeup; quarter Scottish, quarter German, an eighth Dutch, a sixteenth Native American and so on.

It was only later on I added up the fractions and realised he was claiming to be about a person and a half.

Being American he could of course have passed for that.

Thing is, when you go back a few generations you discover your parentage multiplies exponentially. That might explain where all the fractions come from.

In the past 200 years the people I 'have been' were Scottish, Irish and French. These roots are quite important to me, so I understand where your American and a half is coming from. I'm happy to talk to folk about this stuff if they're interested. America is a young country - and it often behaves like a child - so I suppose you get folk who are interested in their roots making a big fuss.

Maybe it's a bit unfair to beat on someone who's looking for answers.

[Dr Koop]

They're also great fun in that you can tell them anything about life in Scotland and 90% will totally buy it.

I once got let off for jaywalking there when I told the police officer that we don't have pedestrian crossings like they do as most junctions here are roundabouts so we have to cross main roads anywhere.

I love the story about the chancer from Blantyre who's supposed to have sold an American tourist two rusty bed springs on the pretext they were from the bed where David Livingstone was born.

[THE KING]

The 'popular'/stereotypical view of many Americans is that they are uber patriotic and love to chant "USA! USA! USA!" and talk about how America is the greatest country on Earth etc. They do seem to come across as 'loving' their country more than those of other nations and talk of their pride in their country etc etc.

However, they then all claim to be Irish or Italian or a quarter Scottish or half German etc etc.

No, you're a fucking American. You were born in America. You live in America. You are an American. You are not Irish. You are not Italian. You are not any other nationality.

I don't get the seeming confusion; they claim to be proud patriots but then claim they are from another country. Mental. It's not like they don't have their own national history from the last couple of hundred of years either.

If anyone were to ask me what nationality I was, I wouldn't say I was Norsk, I would say I was Scottish.

America is a mongrel state with no real history for non natives ,hence the passion of their heritage.

Personally I see nothing wrong with it, and I'm more interested in why it seems to upset people?

Anyone with Italian blood in Scotland calls themselves Italian , also the Indians, Pakistanis and in generations to come the Polish as well.

Why would this offend anyone ? Should people assimilate the moment the step foot somewhere ?

[Hedgecutter]

America is a mongrel state with no real history for non natives ,hence the passion of their heritage.

Personally I see nothing wrong with it, and I'm more interested in why it seems to upset people?

Anyone with Italian blood in Scotland calls themselves Italian , also the Indians, Pakistanis and in generations to come the Polish as well.

Why would this offend anyone ? Should people assimilate the moment the step foot somewhere ?

I think it's more the folk clinging onto 7th generation ancestry and acting as if their parents are Scottish/Irish etc that causes the annoyance. Also saying "I'm Scottish!" as if they're as Scottish as someone who lives here despite being a 'real American' any other time in day to day life.

I'm guessing that there's not quite the same celebration when it turns out that somebody closer was from somewhere like present day Serbia though? Seems very, very selective if it's a 'fashionable' place rather than a general all-round celebration of heritage.

Basically, I think their issue is because a lot of them are super American on the 4th July and mega Irish on St Paddy's Day. If it was consistent then fair enough.