SmokeyJoe Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, Tattie36 said: What worries me most about relegation is that the club will immediately become a very very different beast to what it's been for the last 5 years and it may take years… if ever, to get back. We will have to get used to 3 figure attendances again, a huge drop in hospitality, local interest, merch sales (will the club shop survive?), prize money, gate money, sponsorships, tv money etc etc etc. It’s all very well that we’ll hopefully be watching better football and a more competitive team again but ask Alloa, Accies, QOTS or even Falkirk if they thought they’d be in L1 for so long and if it’s preferable to being a poor Champioship team. Look what Accies have thrown at trying to get back up - they might through the playoffs but it’s not a given. A few short years after our last stint in the second tier we were in serious danger of slipping out of the league altogether. Nothing lasts forever and we would need to go full time to compete fully with them. Punched above our weight for a good few seasons now. So it’s par for the course in my eyes. 3 figure attendances behave. Dropping to league 1 not the pits at bottom end league 2. We may lose money but the outlays like additional money for security will reduce, wages will drop again etc etc. We are a well run club financially and will have plans in place for either outcome. We won’t be throwing cash at returning back to championship that’s what’s hampered other clubs and look at the mess there in along with how they ran themselves whilst in championship we’ve been sustainable the whole time lived within our means. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tattie36 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said: If anyone was going to lose interest they’d have lost it a very long time ago - yeah it’ll take a hit - but it won’t be doomsday stuff we will be perfectly alright Not saying it’ll be doomsday but it’s unlikely to be just a case of dropping down and rebuilding for a crack at the L1 title. Unless the board are prepared to take a big risk financially and we bounce back immediately, then there’ll be a huge financial hit and a much scaled down operation over the coming seasons. Obviously hope I’m way off the mark but I see staying at this level as critical to continuing with the club being anything like it is now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Tattie36 said: Not saying it’ll be doomsday but it’s unlikely to be just a case of dropping down and rebuilding for a crack at the L1 title. Unless the board are prepared to take a big risk financially and we bounce back immediately, then there’ll be a huge financial hit and a much scaled down operation over the coming seasons. Obviously hope I’m way off the mark but I see staying at this level as critical to continuing with the club being anything like it is now. Would never expect us to be favourites to win the league either these things only come around every so often and we’ve had our fair share of them with 3 in the last 15 year. A much scaled down operation really just means the club shop probably being back at the ground - the only FT employee we have is Paul Reid is it not - player budgets etc will be scaled down but that’s normal. Let’s face it if the finances are as high as they’re supposed to be right now then in comparison to recent times we’ve had a very very very poor value for money return. Everything will be perfectly ok and life will go on 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tattie36 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, SmokeyJoe said: …3 figure attendances behave. Dropping to league 1 not the pits at bottom end league 2. Behave? So you can’t see us averaging any number between 100-999? Unlikely to be any big travelling supports to boost our average either. Yes, if we have a great season but look at QOTS, they average half what they did in the Championship, Dumfries is bigger than Arbroath and they had many more years of “success” than we did to build that support. Yeah there are the diehards among us but football fans are fickle as f**k. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Tattie36 said: Behave? So you can’t see us averaging any number between 100-999? Unlikely to be any big travelling supports to boost our average either. Yes, if we have a great season but look at QOTS, they average half what they did in the Championship, Dumfries is bigger than Arbroath and they had many more years of “success” than we did to build that support. Yeah there are the diehards among us but football fans are fickle as f**k. The situation at QoTS has nothing to do with Arbroath though. If 1/3rd of the Season Ticket holders just stopped turning up there would still be close to a 4 figure average attendance. Even then if it was below that who really cares, that was my whole point to begin with. If anyone is supporting Arbroath because they’re a Championship club they’re supporting the wrong team. As the only part time club in the Championship we will go back down to League 1 again at some point whether that’s in the Summer or in the future. The club aren’t daft either they know this - have no doubt we will be in an extremely strong financial position regardless of what league we’re playing football in Edited February 5 by 1320Lichtie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tattie36 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, 1320Lichtie said: The situation at QoTS has nothing to do with Arbroath though. If 1/3rd of the Season Ticket holders just stopped turning up there would still be close to a 4 figure average attendance. Even then if it was below that who really cares, that was my whole point to begin with. If anyone is supporting Arbroath because they’re a Championship club they’re supporting the wrong team. As the only part time club in the Championship we will go back down to League 1 again at some point whether that’s in the Summer or in the future. The club aren’t daft either they know this - have no doubt we will be in an extremely strong financial position regardless of what league we’re playing football in I completely agree with you. I don’t think it’s the end of the world, football is cyclical and we will always have ups and downs. This has been a big up but everthing must come to an end and being part-time means that its been very likely ever since we got promoted. Just saying that there will be big changes and that I would rather we throw everything we can at staying up for as long as possible. Some here almost seem to be looking forward to dropping down just so we can see a competitive team again. I don’t mind that per se but we’ll have to get used to the club as it is now changing a fair bit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 50 minutes ago, Tattie36 said: I completely agree with you. I don’t think it’s the end of the world, football is cyclical and we will always have ups and downs. This has been a big up but everthing must come to an end and being part-time means that its been very likely ever since we got promoted. Just saying that there will be big changes and that I would rather we throw everything we can at staying up for as long as possible. Some here almost seem to be looking forward to dropping down just so we can see a competitive team again. I don’t mind that per se but we’ll have to get used to the club as it is now changing a fair bit. Im looking forward to a normal season with a competitive team again that’s all - sure everyone is. If it is in the Championship then brilliant but it’s absolutely odds against and it would be a surprise if we managed to save it from here. I have just said that it won’t be the end of the world and will maybe help see us get back to what we were doing so well with before because I feel like we’ve lost our way a wee bit A reset is required - on the football side of things I am absolutely all for Jim McIntyre - I think the other side needs to get back to what it was before because like I said earlier I feel really disconnected for the first time in a while due to many factors that are not the actual football 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokeyJoe Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Tattie36 said: Behave? So you can’t see us averaging any number between 100-999? Unlikely to be any big travelling supports to boost our average either. Yes, if we have a great season but look at QOTS, they average half what they did in the Championship, Dumfries is bigger than Arbroath and they had many more years of “success” than we did to build that support. Yeah there are the diehards among us but football fans are fickle as f**k. If we get relegated I’ll be shocked if we go under 1000 ST holders. Bairns love going they’ll still come no like they watch the football anyway just run about with there pals so whatever league we are in won’t matter. Yes away supports will be down but will still no be under 4 figure sums each week 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRoundO Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 And segregation will go so bairns can run anywhere and we can all change ends at half time. But I'd rather stay up if that miracle can happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Home fans have kept turning up for the last 2 years now - if they can turn up through all of that then I’m no sure how going down a league is putting anybody off Its been right up there with Lumsden for me - last year was worse than Lumsden by a distance actually - in my opinion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relichtie Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 17 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said: Let’s face it if the finances are as high as they’re supposed to be right now then in comparison to recent times we’ve had a very very very poor value for money return. Everything will be perfectly ok and life will go on If we are financially ok, then why ask the fans for money with this new appeal? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 22 minutes ago, relichtie said: If we are financially ok, then why ask the fans for money with this new appeal? Well a club can never have too much money - if it’s an extra source of income and other clubs do it then why not give the fans the opportunity to do it if they wish. Already said I am all for it but I can see why others are not - main point being you can do it if you want to and completely forget about it if you don’t it’s not mandatory Maybe it is because relegation is looming and they want the coffers boosted in a bid to try come back up as soon as we can I think it’s a great idea that’s been marketed at a very poor time and an idea that the ‘rewards’ need looked at because they don’t represent any real meaningful return. I also think it’s a bit shit that it’s come out when the output from the club in regards to all the things I mentioned in an earlier post - to fans has been extremely poor this year and especially in the last couple of month in relation to years previous 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relichtie Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I don't want to bandy figures on the clubs finances, but at the last AGM the bank balance was in an extremely healthy position as I recall. If the club was on its uppers I can see an appeal for cash being used, but use what is there first before putting round the begging bowl. If we are in a bad position financially, then questions need answered as to how we got in that position. I know that the board are ambitious but we should live within our means. Any other course leads to disaster. Ask Gretna fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokeyJoe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 They only way our finances would have dropped significantly is from the hybrid role paying some of the duds we’ve had accom etc for the last 2 years. Dont think our wage structure is bad maybe just Scott Allan is the figures are true being banded around. A lot of the stadium work was done with the covid grant, the money left behind from a supporter and obviously prize money 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 32 minutes ago, relichtie said: I don't want to bandy figures on the clubs finances, but at the last AGM the bank balance was in an extremely healthy position as I recall. If the club was on its uppers I can see an appeal for cash being used, but use what is there first before putting round the begging bowl. If we are in a bad position financially, then questions need answered as to how we got in that position. I know that the board are ambitious but we should live within our means. Any other course leads to disaster. Ask Gretna fans. It is not a begging bowl though - Hearts have run this for years and years. I’m pretty sure they could quite easily disband the whole thing and be perfectly sound financially - it is quite simply an initiative to allow fans to contribute more if they wish to I don’t understand what is so hard to get 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anotherlichtie Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 46 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said: It is not a begging bowl though - Hearts have run this for years and years. I’m pretty sure they could quite easily disband the whole thing and be perfectly sound financially - it is quite simply an initiative to allow fans to contribute more if they wish to I don’t understand what is so hard to get You seem to be the only poster on here that continually brings it up. Are you excited to receive your scarf after £100? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anotherlichtie Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, relichtie said: I don't want to bandy figures on the clubs finances, but at the last AGM the bank balance was in an extremely healthy position as I recall. If the club was on its uppers I can see an appeal for cash being used, but use what is there first before putting round the begging bowl. If we are in a bad position financially, then questions need answered as to how we got in that position. I know that the board are ambitious but we should live within our means. Any other course leads to disaster. Ask Gretna fans. I personally believe the club should come out and be transparent with the supporters. Inform us exactly why they’ve started the scheme and answer the concerns from the majority of the support. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLichtie86 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 fucking hell some amount of doom and gloom in this chat recently. Relegation will not be the death kneel for us. The years in the Championship has been very good to the club in terms of the work done to stadium improvements and the overall bank balance. More can still be done in the coming years. The improvements to the stadium will be there for years and will help generate revenue which 10 years ago we would struggle to make due to lack of facilities. It might not make the same levels of money if we were in League 1 or 2 but more likely during big cup games. Main thing has been getting a lot more fans through the gates. 10 years ago if someone said we would have over 1000 season tickets holders and plenty of youngsters attending games you would have been laughed at and told to lay off the drink. The longer we keep these fans coming through the gates the better position we will be in in the long term. If we get relegated then so be it. We have things in place to come back. The last 18 months we have not seen much good football on the pitch and we still have fans turning up. When we get a team on the pitch that can play good football and bring some joy to our lives again things will look far more positive than now. Just remains to be seen if that will be in the Championship or League 1 next season. The next game in 11 days. We are only 10 points off 5th place despite our injuries and rag tag teams. There are still 42 points still to play for. Pretty much every team from 4th to 10th are still in the mix to finish in the bottom 2. And we know that in this league teams take points off each other and we barely see teams dominate this league. We can still pick up points. Times have been tough for us but this rest period has come at the right time. Now we have players close to coming back from injury and others getting some much needed rest. Hammy's toe will enjoy a couple of weeks off. The manager has had time to assess the squad and fitness levels, training and tactics. I honestly feel we are getting back up from the canvas. Team will look stronger and well rested. We are still in the fight to stay up. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Johnny G Experience Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I think the club have been up front about this, it spells out that they want to secure some more regular income, a steady baseline before the unpredictable income bursts of ticket sales and season tickets. If it feels like the club are doing this out of desperation, maybe this was in the pipeline and our situation has brought it forward a bit. I don't see it as a begging bowl at all though. We have 1000+ season ticket holders and that's beyond anything I could have ever imagined, but probably also at least the same again in fans like me who can't get to games very often, and chip in with some merchandise and streams when we can. I can see there being significant uptake from us in the fair weather, follow the match on BBC scores website type of fans. I agree with everything redlichtie86 said in his comment, too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonLichtie Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Couple of off field things which are obviously sitting poorly with some fans - firstly, Always Arbroath... I understand initial worries from people, but it only takes a minute to look at our publically available accounts to see that the vast majority of worries are completely unfounded. I've no idea why anyone is talking about money troubles etc. for the club..... For the club to be in any sort of difficulty, we'd need to have basically tripled our wage to turnover ratio Our income over the 20 odd months or so hasn't significently dropped, and we've not suddenly added 10k a week to the wage bill over this period. At least one of these scenarios would have to be true to get near any sort of 'financial difficulties' and to have gone from a cash balance of over 1 million at May 2022 to struggling now. Surely the far more logical, sensible reaction is 'oh, the corporate director we have at the club is doing his job'? I'd be far more concerned if one of the presumably higher earning staff members at the club was sitting about doing f**k all thinking 'ach, I've done enough this year financially for the club' I'd be far more concerned! Instead we're still trying to innovate and bring in finances with a scheme that is doing by many other clubs in the country and is nothing new. Having issues with the scheme itself - understandable and totally fine - adding 2+2 together and getting 100 regarding our finances seems to be happening a lot here though.... Personally it's not something I'll be getting involved in, like buying merchandise or a brick in the wall etc - they're not things that interest me personally. I prefer to show my support in person at games and through putting time into things like the archive.... both of them take a significent amount of time and money every year themselves However, everyone is different and some people for a variety of reasons are unable to attend games/ have the time I do and therefore they contribute financially to things like Always Arbroath to do their bit. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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